Ultramarines Captain

misterjustin

New member
I\'m just about ready to post this guy (got some feedback on another forum I\'m going to incorporate tonight) but hoping to get some input from the CMON community.

The general WIP thread was dead so I thought I\'d try here - especially since he\'ll probably be online for voting tonight.

My goal is to get a solid 7 out of him. I think it\'s just about there but can\'t figure out what, other than a couple of little things, aren\'t sitting quite right. I know something is a bit off but can\'t put my finger on what.

Anyone?

277742467_2afa66200d_o.jpg
 

moonmin82

New member
feedback

I\'d agree thats its certainly worth 6.5 - 7. My main criticism would be the knees. I\'ve tried a similar kneeling conversion and my attempt was so poor that I sculpted robes just to hide my shoddy cut and shut job! ;)
 

misterjustin

New member
Originally posted by moonmin82
I\'d agree thats its certainly worth 6.5 - 7. My main criticism would be the knees. I\'ve tried a similar kneeling conversion and my attempt was so poor that I sculpted robes just to hide my shoddy cut and shut job! ;)

These are the GW kneeling legs that come with the Battleforce -- to be used, as I understand it, with the missile launcher.

No conversion work was done to this model with the exception of the additional \"U\" symbols.
 

chrismisterx

New member
not sure if its the photo, but the back seems high gloss finish and the front does not.

maybe a few extra highlights on the armour, some parts seem a little flat, top of arm holding the banner, ( might just be the photo ) also the effect on the knee under the symbol doesnt quite look right.

I agree as is a 6.5 - 7, nice mini over all.
 

matty1001

New member
Definately a high 6 from me.
The freehand white needs to be done over again to get the lines really crisp, especially on the back of the cloak. Maybe another layer and a dark wash on the backpack, it looks heavily drybrushed and there is some black showing through.And one last thing, on the gold lining on the cloak, behind the chainsward it looks like you have put a bit of red onto it when painting other areas.
But other than that this is a great piece of conversion and great, solid TT standard painting. 6.8/9 maybe 7 if im in a good mood. (Which i am tonight, so get it up!!)
 

misterjustin

New member
http://www.coolminiornot.com/137744

Done. I\'m going to set this one aside for awhile so I don\'t muck him up with little changes though.

@matty1001:The white lines on the cloak were originally intended to radiate out inside the \"U\" symbol -- but I don\'t think it worked as well as it did on his leg. I will probably fill that in.

I\'ll clean up that backpack tonight - thank you. I\'ve been looking at him so much I can\'t see anything any more.

@chrismisterx: yeah, that\'s the photo. I think I got the light too close on those shots. I also got the highlighting on the banner arm - but you can\'t see it in the shot. Hmm, more photos needed.

What would you suggest on the leg \"ray\" effect?

Keep it coming - I went from 3.6 to 6.5 - I\'m trying to push my way in to the 8 range and beyond - so the more input I get the more I\'ll improve.

Thanks again!
 

misterjustin

New member
Officially Confused

I do realize that CMON ranking are very, very arbitrary. One person\'s \"tabletop\" is another\'s \"OH MY F---ING GOD!\"

In my own world a 5, tabletop according to CMON, is what I expect to see at a gaming table. What, as a painter, I wouldn\'t try to give away. Usually 2-3 colours and nothing in the way of details.

But now my Before/After Leman Russ
http://www.coolminiornot.com/133247
is pulling in the same rank as this captain. That is to say nominally better than tabletop quality.

I was aiming for a 7 and thought I\'d finally gotten one - even out of the CMON crowd - so where did I miss the mark?
 

Judo sam

New member
I know what you are talking about I have what I thought was a 7 paint job get 6.1 and what I thought was a 6 paint job get 6.3. And a lot of minitures that are not great maybe 5-6 get less then 5 some people realy have to be vindictive to give less then 5 to a miniture that is based with a least 3 clean colours on it.

misterjustin you are being stiffed about 1/2 - 1 rank imho.

All you can do is try and improve enventually you will get that 7, and hopefully so will I. Good luck
 

DaN

New member
Damn \"Server not found\" errors... OK, try again... <sigh> :mad:

I like this guy - voterated 7 :)

But Although I realise he\'s \"Fresh of the transport\" I feel the metallic areas are too flat...

Maybe a light wash?
 

skeeve

Member
While rank may be arbitrary it reflects something. From my limited experience with COMON tabletop standard 5 - is clearly not what you see on tabletops. It is somewhat comparable to what GW stuff uses for demonstration games for new customers - in other words it is very decent level of painting.

Now, a little bit about the theory of scoring :)) Since COMON scores are integer numbers and assuming that your work does not causes intense love/hate we have to assume that most people score it at 6 and 7, with the minority at 5 and 8. Alternatively, you can get the same average with 25% of each from 5 to 8, but that would suggest love-hate situation :)). So, in order to get 7 you have to convince a decent number of people that this work deserves 8.
Why this particular mini does not deserve 8 in my opinion. First several subjective reasons: 1) Quality of the photograph – has nothing to do with painting but it is the only way for people to judge.
2 ) Choice of the mini. There are literarily hundreds of ultramarine renditions out there. So the basis for comparison is vast and an ultramarine has to be truly amazing to stand out
Now, lets move to more objective problems:
3) Almost no highlights/shadows. The armor is pretty much flat. The cape is very flat. Banner pole too.
4) Straight metal. Something I have to repeat very often. There is no such thing is straight metal. Even a fully polished blade on a parade ground will reflect light unevenly therefore it will never be a flat “boltgun” metal color.
5) White parts (U on front, back and shoulder pad, some parts of a banner). It is very difficult to paint white because of the coverage issues. Even though, using thick concentrated white is not a solution. It becomes streaky, uneven and blotchy. To deal with this you might want to paint “future” white areas with light gray first and then put several layers of white slowly moving toward pure white.
6) Freehand. Just having it is insufficient, it has to be neat. Now it might be considered going too far, but remember, you want some 8 to get your 7. So... the cape. The black line separating gold and blue is of different thickness in different places; while it might be by design the reason for this is not apparent. Lettering is very uneven everywhere. Usually when I do something like this I first try it out several times on a flat surface to make sure I know how it all looks. Then, with paint that close to the base color (so I can easily overpaint it if I mess it up) I make a contour of my letters. At this point, since they are barely visible, I can change positions, size and appearance until I am satisfied. Then I work to brighter colors from there.
 

Judo sam

New member
you forgot to mention the people on cmon that give minitures a 1 or a 10 depending on if they think the miniture is over-rated or under-rated
 

skeeve

Member
That\'s true but usually when you have 50+ votes extra couple of 1 or couple of 10 will be drowned by overall statistics. Here is hypothetical exersize. Say you have 50 votes each equal to 7. say you added 10 extra votes each equal 10 (how likely is that normally?). All you will achieve in this case is to shift the average from 7 to 7.5. Now, if 200 more people vote again 7 your average will drop to 7.1. All in all the balance will eventually be restored
 

Skullz

New member
8!!!!!!!!????

an 8 would be seriously pushing it. i find the entire composition far too high contrast. your details are not suttle enough and i find them entirely way too distracting. good try tho. honestly i\'d give it a 6 because it is better than game ready but it is a large jump to say it it a 7 or an 8.
 

AinuLainour

New member
If your freehand were smoother - not so contrasting - you would have a better score. If I\'ve learned anything from my scores, this mini deserves 6.6 at most. Sorry if that\'s harsh - just my honest opinion.
 

misterjustin

New member
Actually, I want to thank everyone for their feedback. I just realized that I hadn\'t done that yet. Naughty me.

Really though, if honesty is harsh then harsh is good. The first piece I posted to CMON got a 3.something. I thought it was GREAT of course. I managed to get some feedback (removed the piece, heh) and I\'ve come a long way since.

I can churn out armies in no time of a decent quality. I manage some decent commissions because I can paint a fair mini very quickly. What I want to be able to do is paint a GREAT mini.

So, really, thank you all for the great feedback. The next mini will be better.

It also won\'t be an Ultramarine :)

Hey, what can I say, I got UM shoulders and bits in my last shipment. I promise I\'ll be good and not paint them again. Until next time anyway.
 

OrkyDave

New member
Some good points- the conversion and composition, the gold metallics.

Some great points- the face and flesh (as this is a focal point always worth making it snazzy- well done)

Some not so great points- the white areas, the \'streaking\' effect in the symbol and knee, the banner (another focal point).

I feel there is too much white and not enough going on in it, and the potential to show off and score extra points with banners is too good to ignore. A banner can make or break a mini and I feel yours lets him down. The lettering also NEEDS to be neater, or maybe try copying a suitable font style.

The biggest plus about this for me though is your attitude towards the feedback, and taking it constructiveley to help you become a great painter. Very encouraging.:)
 

skeeve

Member
I can churn out armies in no time of a decent quality. I manage some decent commissions because I can paint a fair mini very quickly.

Sometimes, after spending several days per mini I think that this ability of yours is more important :)

Speaking of ultramarines. I did a quick search in a database. Well, using \"utramar\" you get 720 hits - which is almost 10% of all coolmini submissions. Granted, some of them are vehicles but still :rolleyes:
 
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