United We Stand..

[vincegamer]

Man that\'s a stupid story.
I mean, sure, the punch-line though a bit obvious was kinda funny, but it just shows some guy who believes in a god gets to beat the crap out of someone who doesn\'t.
What does being a member of the ACLU have to do with anything?
It\'s sickeningly inflamatory and it doesn\'t show any support for soldiers, just malice towards atheists.
Hell, we aren\'t even at war with any atheists.

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by Torn blue sky
I got this today and thought I should share. It made me laugh.

United We Stand!!!

A Soldier from the United States Army was attending some college
courses, between assignments. He had completed missions in Iraq and
Afghanistan. One of the courses had a professor who was an avowed
atheist and a member of the ACLU.
...

Oh yeah, that evil ACLU - who hate America so much that they spend every day defending its Constitution. Please don\'t post crap like this here.

EDIT: I\'m sure you meant well. If you look past the petty, polarizing atheist/ACLU-bashing neoconservatist politics, it kind of reminds me of the \"Lady, I sent you three boats and a helicopter\" joke. At any rate it\'s just as well it\'s not real, that soldier would be in a heap of trouble if it was.

 

[Swordwind]

Originally posted by vincegamer
Man that\'s a stupid story.
I mean, sure, the punch-line though a bit obvious was kinda funny, but it just shows some guy who believes in a god gets to beat the crap out of someone who doesn\'t.
What does being a member of the ACLU have to do with anything?
It\'s sickeningly inflamatory and it doesn\'t show any support for soldiers, just malice towards atheists.
Hell, we aren\'t even at war with any atheists.

What he said. I\'m behind the troops of all nationalities sent to the hell hole that is Iraq but this just portrays American soldiers as violent, fascist crusaders.

 

[electrolito 77]

@Funnymouth: When I say get out I don\'t mean it as an order. I say this because there are some people that don\'t understand the concept of America. I say it as on option, if they hate it so much, again not as an order.

Anothe thing... has anyone thought about the cause of death for majority of these numbers reported? last i checked it is not the US Troops killing these innocent iraquis... but themselves. Us being there has not changed anyhting but the view of the world upon the War. When Saddam ruled Iraq things were a hell of alot worse. Can anyone say genocide? Anyway like someone said before, it is a black and white topic, whether you like it or not it is reality, now pick your side and live by it. God bless!

 

[spazzy]

@ funnymouth and mistamick - there are several instances in the bible where God supported war.

@ steelcult - you shouldn\'t have even bothered arguing with that guy. In most cases arguing with an idiot will allow them to pull you down to their level and beat you with experience. Good job, though.

When hubby was in Iraq there were a lot of dependants that had big signs on their cars saying \"proud spouse of a soldier in Iraq\" and \"proud wife of SGT So-and-so with 111 company 222 battalion in Iraq\" People would ask me why I didn\'t do that to show my support for my hubby. Number one, advertising that you are a woman home alone while hubby is out of the country isn\'t the safest thing to do. Number two, the best thing I could have done to support him while he was there was to keep the bills paid, the kid taken care of, and everything under control so that all he had to worry about while he was there was himself. He never had to worry about what was going on at home.

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by electrolito 77
When Saddam ruled Iraq things were a hell of alot worse. Can anyone say genocide?

That\'s not true! During the war with Iran in the early 80s things were really bad and acts of genocide have been comitted (not of the general public, though). I\'m not saying things were good during Saddam\'s rule, but it\'s far worse now for the general public (who don\'t belong to the Kurd minority), due to the lack of security. Saddam, at least, controlled the country and few dared to cause trouble. Again, I\'m not defending Saddam Hussein and his methods, just stating a few facts.

 

[ZaPhOd]

I\'m with ritual. There were bad things under Saddam of course, but at least your average Iraqi could go to the market without fear of being blown up by someone, or detained and tortured by so called liberators.

\"Support the Troops\" is a nice slogan but it has been bastardized into a propoganda tool to get support for the war, not the troops. I am sure Goebbels had a similar slogan when the Wehrmacht was marching into France and everywhere else eh?

As for the joke, NSA is right. It is hate-mongering rubbish and should not be posted here in my opinion. But hey, everyone can say what they think I suppose...

 

[No Such Agency]

The #1 reason to oppose the US involvement in Iraq is the staggering, ongoing civilian death toll and destruction of Iraq\'s infrastructure - which is largely yet to be rebuilt by the idle profiteers at Halliburton et al. The #2 reason is the staggering mountain of lies and prevarication that the war was based on. The people who made the decision to go to war did so not for the reasons they claimed to, but for other reasons which they have not honestly disclosed. In a supposedly democratic society, that is enough to make a war unjust, and those who started it criminals.

 

[GAR]

personally, I respect everyone\'s opinion. Glad you all have a view of this situation.

However, my point of view is as follows.

In Gulf War one, we should have finished the job and done this 15 years ago.

The big ugly is the middle east ever has been a frothing breeding ground for lunatics of every fashion for 100s of years and has degenerated to this since its more elightened days about 1000 years ago.

That being said, whether you disagree with the reasons/lies or whatever you wish to call it, something like this has been brewing for the last 30 years. No one likes it and sadly no one wants to deal with it.

personally, I would have turned most of the middle east into a parking lot. yes blood on my hands and name in infamy. probably would have been brought up on war crimes, but the lessons of the past say there is only one ultimate solution to irreconciable difference\'s and that is gloves off war with someone being beaten into submission till they say enough no more.

This kid glove political type of war was trash in vietnam and still is today.

I don\'t expect a lot of you to agree with me, and if you are angry at me, that is fine too. We don\'t have to agree politically. I\'m not mad, or even upset, it is my opinion and we all have one. Actually, I think it is good thing we don\'t always agree, that would be truly scary.

But soo long as you all give me 10s on all my figures, we will be OK :bouncy:lollol

 

[dauber22]

I am not a huge supporter of the war, but neither do I believe in demonizing those who are. In fact, there\'s way to much demonizing going on by both sides of the arguement to ever get any real poiints across (I don\'t mean here, necessarily, but in the great \"out there\") But I\'ll just make a few comments anyways.

The ACLU line in there was pretty ridiculous. It\'s become a buzz word that people latch on to who don\'t really understand what the ACLU really is. Take the politics out of it, though, and it was kind of funny. As far as it being anti-atheist, I didn\'t find it anymore offensive than the gagillion jokes out there that make fun of people of faith.

Quote: \"There were bad things under Saddam of course, but at least your average Iraqi could go to the market without fear of being blown up by someone, or detained and tortured by so called liberators.\"

Sorry, but I find all comments like this to be closely related to those from World War II like that Mussolini at least made the trains run on time or that if it wasn\'t for Hilter we wouldn\'t have the autobahn or VW\'s. The \"average Iraqi\" was safe... as long as they weren\'t a Kurd, or a Shite in a Suni neighborhood or vice versa or as long as you didn\'t run afoul of on of Saddam\'s sons. Sorry, just find it to be a weak, weak arguement.

quote: \"\"Support the Troops\" is a nice slogan but it has been bastardized into a propoganda tool to get support for the war, not the troops.\" Couldn\'t agree with you MORE on that point.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by electrolito 77
Another thing... has anyone thought about the cause of death for majority of these numbers reported? last i checked it is not the US Troops killing these innocent Iraquis....

Yes, of course people have thought about it. Coalition Forces (read almost entirely USA) are responsible for around 30% of the violent deaths.
So, yes, we\'ve only killed around 200,000 innocent civilians.

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by ZaPhOd
\"Support the Troops\" is a nice slogan but it has been bastardized into a propoganda tool to get support for the war, not the troops.

I don\'t think that\'s exactly true. I don\'t think the slogan has been bastardized. I believe that\'s always what it has been used for. During the Viet Nam war, when popular support in the USA was waning, politicians who weren\'t willing to go against the president or the military industrial complex came up with the phrase to explain why they said the war was wrong but continued to approve it in the budget. Only when the Congress got balls and decided it would cut the military spending did the war stop and the soldiers come home.

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by GAR
In Gulf War one, we should have finished the job and done this 15 years ago.

Read James Baker\'s book. His 1995 memoire explains why they didn\'t topple Hussein then: pretty much because they knew we\'d be in the quagmire we\'re in now.

 

[GAR]

Originally posted by vincegamer

Originally posted by GAR
In Gulf War one, we should have finished the job and done this 15 years ago.

Read James Baker\'s book. His 1995 memoire explains why they didn\'t topple Hussein then: pretty much because they knew we\'d be in the quagmire we\'re in now.

Yup. no argument there. However, No Korea was not a threat then, nor were the taliban or a whole mess of other issues where are all trying to juggle now. It would have been easier to deal then.

My point is it is something that should have been done then, it was and is going to be a mess no matter what, but it did need to be done. Oh well. Nuthing can be done about it now.

Anyone think the Texans can beat the Cowboys this Sunday??

Does anyone know how long Brad will stay with Angelina??

 

[No Such Agency]

Anyway, politics aside, this is the most unlikely part of the \"joke\":

The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop.

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by dauber22
Sorry, just find it to be a weak, weak arguement.

I don\'t think NSA was arguing for or against anything, and neither was I. I was merely objecting to a statement that \"things were far worse with Saddam\" and NSA agreed with me. There was a report published today that claims 650,000 people above \"normal\" mortality rates (as it was prior to the invasion) in Iraq has died since the invasion. This report is disputed and the US government claims the number to be about 1/10 of that, but we\'re still talking about a minimum of 50,000 dead above normal mortality rates in just a couple of years. Thus, it seems pretty obvious things are worse now! That\'s all! No defense of Saddam Hussein there! No denying the atrocities comitted against the Kurds or any other minority. Just a statement of cold facts.

 

[supervike]

That e-mail has been circulating for some time. Its a cute little joke, nothing more.

I don\'t think it is \'hate mongering trash\'. That seems a trite strong for some political rhetoric.

 

[funnymouth]

Originally posted by spazzy
@ funnymouth and mistamick - there are several instances in the bible where God supported war.

never said \"he\" didnt - but i doubt god would support some guy punching some other guy in \"his\" name over unfounded beliefs.

besides...... i think \"thou shalt not kill\" trumps any other reference to gods support of war.

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by supervike
I don\'t think it is \'hate mongering trash\'. That seems a trite strong for some political rhetoric.

The trouble is, a lot of political rhetoric these days IS \"hate-mongering\". I\'m sure it was not posted here with that intent, but if it is circulated as being factual, that IS being done to smear (in this case) atheists, the ACLU, and probably by implication, political left-wingers - in the form of an imaginary straw man: the \"professor who was an avowed atheist and a member of the ACLU\". It is quite reminiscent of another e-mail urban legend documented at Snopes.com - also concerning a confrontation between soldiers and an insufficiently patriotic university professor... I\'m disturbed that human beings with IQ\'s over 50 would actually believe this kind of obvious nonsense. But the human mind has an amazing ability to cast aside critical thinking when it is hearing things it already agrees with.

 

[LavronYor]

Violence solves everything
and
violence is the last refuge of the incompetent
are two of my favorite quotes, and while both are true, it only demonstrates that people smart enough to avoid violence are probably also too smart to seek election. Still, I would be happy to see any contradictions to either of these.

Fortunately, I believe in Kharma and wish everyone a happy day.