Vampire vs. Werewolf
- Thread starter marineboy
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Confessor Townsend
New member
Look at the avatar and hazard a guess. Rugs all the way baby!!
Okay, since we\'re quoting nerd sources, in Marval comics Wolverine is similar to a werewolf; Above normal strength, claws, animal senses, hard to kill, etc... When he was bit by Dracula his \"healing factor\" overcame the vampire virus and he wasn\'t turned. So... Bestial blood kicks vampire blood. However, I have to agree that in a war the better organization of the vamps would win out. But in a one-on-one the wolf\'s got the edge (unless its a ultra powerful ancient vampire with all of the Hollywood super-abilities).
Einion
New member
I can\'t really vote on this for the reason QuietiManes mentioned - which vampires and werewolves? As I was discussing with a friend just the other day, when you write about a fictional premise you get to pick and choose which strengths and weaknesses you want to have embodied in your creation.
So werewolves can be ravening, uncontrollable beasts for three nights a month and a bespectacled vicar during the rest of the time, or you can choose to have them fully in control of their faculties and abilities, as in Steve Vance\'s The Hyde Effect and Shapes (both good fun BTW, highly recommended to lycanthrope fans). I won\'t spoil the novels by going into the idea too deeply but this means that you\'re not necessarily bad or evil, which is a lot more complex and interesting to the modern reader than the older concept of unreasoning monsters that preoccupied repressed gothic-horror writers in the 19th century, although this does work well in An American Werewolf In London and The Howling for example.
Now, vampires. Lots of lore to base your decisions on and the first thing that should go out the window is that they are only safe at night; the granddaddy of the modern concept, Stoker\'s novel, makes it clear that that is not the case; much more powerful during the night yes, but not hiding in terror of sunlight either (not that it doesn\'t make for good entertainment if they are, Blade does the whole creatures-of-the-night thing nicely). Then there\'s the native earth/no native earth, silver/no silver, running water/no running water etc. in addition, one of the elements I enjoy myself is is belief necessary to wield a cross successfully against one (see Fright Night)? Which leads to the amusing observation you might have heard: what if the vampire weren\'t a Christian when they were alive? Do you hold up a star of David if they were Jewish? A ham sandwich if they were Moslem?
What I find interesting personally is the premise that vampirism doesn\'t make you inherently evil, it\'s your choice what you want to do with the curse/gift. The classic concept of them being the very definition of evil is probably embodied most forcibly in modern culture within Joss Whedon\'s universe, that a demon is inhabiting your corpse, but Vampire$ (John Steakley\'s book, not the terrible movie they made from it) does it really well also... and makes one very afraid of what would be necessary were vampires to exist.
So, pick your poison: in Underworld it\'s pretty clear that the average vampire is just dogfood that\'s still walking around; in Dracula\'s universe there\'s little doubt vamps would have werewolves as pets!
Einion
So werewolves can be ravening, uncontrollable beasts for three nights a month and a bespectacled vicar during the rest of the time, or you can choose to have them fully in control of their faculties and abilities, as in Steve Vance\'s The Hyde Effect and Shapes (both good fun BTW, highly recommended to lycanthrope fans). I won\'t spoil the novels by going into the idea too deeply but this means that you\'re not necessarily bad or evil, which is a lot more complex and interesting to the modern reader than the older concept of unreasoning monsters that preoccupied repressed gothic-horror writers in the 19th century, although this does work well in An American Werewolf In London and The Howling for example.
Now, vampires. Lots of lore to base your decisions on and the first thing that should go out the window is that they are only safe at night; the granddaddy of the modern concept, Stoker\'s novel, makes it clear that that is not the case; much more powerful during the night yes, but not hiding in terror of sunlight either (not that it doesn\'t make for good entertainment if they are, Blade does the whole creatures-of-the-night thing nicely). Then there\'s the native earth/no native earth, silver/no silver, running water/no running water etc. in addition, one of the elements I enjoy myself is is belief necessary to wield a cross successfully against one (see Fright Night)? Which leads to the amusing observation you might have heard: what if the vampire weren\'t a Christian when they were alive? Do you hold up a star of David if they were Jewish? A ham sandwich if they were Moslem?
What I find interesting personally is the premise that vampirism doesn\'t make you inherently evil, it\'s your choice what you want to do with the curse/gift. The classic concept of them being the very definition of evil is probably embodied most forcibly in modern culture within Joss Whedon\'s universe, that a demon is inhabiting your corpse, but Vampire$ (John Steakley\'s book, not the terrible movie they made from it) does it really well also... and makes one very afraid of what would be necessary were vampires to exist.
So, pick your poison: in Underworld it\'s pretty clear that the average vampire is just dogfood that\'s still walking around; in Dracula\'s universe there\'s little doubt vamps would have werewolves as pets!
Einion
@ Einion
The evangelist Paul wrote \"...where there is no law there is no transgression.\" Legend, lore, modern fiction and gaming rules probably contradict each other and themselves regarding what any mythical (or real-life, who knows!) monsters can or will do. The essence of the matter here is, what do you believe?
The evangelist Paul wrote \"...where there is no law there is no transgression.\" Legend, lore, modern fiction and gaming rules probably contradict each other and themselves regarding what any mythical (or real-life, who knows!) monsters can or will do. The essence of the matter here is, what do you believe?
vincegamer
Active member
Awesome quote Mike!
Who is the movie director who vowed as a kid that when he made movies no one would shoot more than six bullets out of his revolver?
vincegamer
Active member
As said above, it depends on the mythos you use. (and I\'m pretty sure Stoker\'s Dracula couldn\'t face daylight. That\'s what kills him in the end when the heroes fight the cossaks and break open his crate just before the sun sets).
Anyway, I\'m surprised no one has mentioned this before: Vampires are imortal! They can be destroyed, true, but werewolves get old and suffer arthritis and alzheimer\'s and bladder incontenence.
And what about the vampires turning to mist? Hard to rip out mist\'s heart.
I think in most mythos forms, vampires will win, but werewolves are a much older myth (early cave drawings show animal transformations) and appeal to a different part of our psyche. So in short, most of the time, vampires win, but werewolves are much cooler.
Anyway, I\'m surprised no one has mentioned this before: Vampires are imortal! They can be destroyed, true, but werewolves get old and suffer arthritis and alzheimer\'s and bladder incontenence.
And what about the vampires turning to mist? Hard to rip out mist\'s heart.
I think in most mythos forms, vampires will win, but werewolves are a much older myth (early cave drawings show animal transformations) and appeal to a different part of our psyche. So in short, most of the time, vampires win, but werewolves are much cooler.
History lesson
This would depend on whether we are talking about the current incarnation of Vampires and Werewolves (which seems to change with every movie), or the historical background on each.
If we are talking about the Vampire and Werewolf in ancient history, we again would have to determine the geographical origination we are talking about.
For instance, lycanthropy in Europe, it was considered either as a curse or a pact with Satan, while in North America, Shamans believed the Werewolf to be a gift or hero of the Gods.
But for arguments sake, let’s keep with the middle ages European myths for both.
The original vampire believed to be the cause of loss of livestock and disease when no other means could be found, was nothing more than a mindless tool of Satan. (Think Dawn of the Dead but with flesh that was rejuvenated with every feeding). One of the ways Romanians stopped vampires (called Strigoi mort) from feeding was to sow the grave site with poppy seeds. The vampire was naturally compelled to count the poppy seeds rather than feed for the night
ALWAYS has the vampire been vulnerable in daylight. It was during daylight that vampires could not only be identified, but killed as well.
A vampire in the grave could be told by holes in the earth, an un-decomposed corpse with a red face, or having one foot in the corner of the coffin. Living vampires were found by distributing garlic in church and seeing who didn\'t eat it.
To destroy a vampire, a stake was driven through the body followed by decapitation and placing garlic in the mouth. By the 19th century people were shooting a bullet through the coffin. For resistant cases, the body was dismembered and the pieces burned, mixed with water, and given to family members as a cure.
The Vampire was a threat to be sure, but nothing like the Bram Stoker version in modern fiction.
Werewolves in the Middle Ages however were a fear at any time of the day. The origins of the European myths actually come from the wars with the Barbarian horde Berserkers who would regularly fight with bear or wolf skins wrapped around them.
While there were many was a lycanthrope became a were-whatever, but the four most common were as either a salve rubbed onto ones self, a cursed man, a sorcerer who had donned a special enchanted belt, or as a practitioner of Satanism in the company of witches. Later it became the diagnosis for a person who had given in to their animalistic nature despite his civilized self. A werewolf that died either became a lubin (French ghoul living on corpses in graveyards) or the typical mindless vampire …. Yes I said vampire.
To cure the werewolf, one had to either call him/her by his/her human name while in the animal state. Another requires the highly dangerous trick of extracting 3 drops of blood while in the wolf state. A third technique demands that the lycanthrope restrain him/her from attacking humans for full 9-years
Killing a werewolf at that time was a lot easier than it is in modern day Hollywood.
First, it was not just silver that killed a werewolf. Anything that could kill a wolf would kill a werewolf. Secondly, his wounds did not regenerate, but would be carried with him/her in whatever form he took.
So for me, in the Middle Ages, a comparison of mindless vampire who more resembled a zombie against the animalistic werewolf is a no contest. The lycanthrope wins.
The same contest in modern day Hollywood? Still a toss up.
This would depend on whether we are talking about the current incarnation of Vampires and Werewolves (which seems to change with every movie), or the historical background on each.
If we are talking about the Vampire and Werewolf in ancient history, we again would have to determine the geographical origination we are talking about.
For instance, lycanthropy in Europe, it was considered either as a curse or a pact with Satan, while in North America, Shamans believed the Werewolf to be a gift or hero of the Gods.
But for arguments sake, let’s keep with the middle ages European myths for both.
The original vampire believed to be the cause of loss of livestock and disease when no other means could be found, was nothing more than a mindless tool of Satan. (Think Dawn of the Dead but with flesh that was rejuvenated with every feeding). One of the ways Romanians stopped vampires (called Strigoi mort) from feeding was to sow the grave site with poppy seeds. The vampire was naturally compelled to count the poppy seeds rather than feed for the night
ALWAYS has the vampire been vulnerable in daylight. It was during daylight that vampires could not only be identified, but killed as well.
A vampire in the grave could be told by holes in the earth, an un-decomposed corpse with a red face, or having one foot in the corner of the coffin. Living vampires were found by distributing garlic in church and seeing who didn\'t eat it.
To destroy a vampire, a stake was driven through the body followed by decapitation and placing garlic in the mouth. By the 19th century people were shooting a bullet through the coffin. For resistant cases, the body was dismembered and the pieces burned, mixed with water, and given to family members as a cure.
The Vampire was a threat to be sure, but nothing like the Bram Stoker version in modern fiction.
Werewolves in the Middle Ages however were a fear at any time of the day. The origins of the European myths actually come from the wars with the Barbarian horde Berserkers who would regularly fight with bear or wolf skins wrapped around them.
While there were many was a lycanthrope became a were-whatever, but the four most common were as either a salve rubbed onto ones self, a cursed man, a sorcerer who had donned a special enchanted belt, or as a practitioner of Satanism in the company of witches. Later it became the diagnosis for a person who had given in to their animalistic nature despite his civilized self. A werewolf that died either became a lubin (French ghoul living on corpses in graveyards) or the typical mindless vampire …. Yes I said vampire.
To cure the werewolf, one had to either call him/her by his/her human name while in the animal state. Another requires the highly dangerous trick of extracting 3 drops of blood while in the wolf state. A third technique demands that the lycanthrope restrain him/her from attacking humans for full 9-years
Killing a werewolf at that time was a lot easier than it is in modern day Hollywood.
First, it was not just silver that killed a werewolf. Anything that could kill a wolf would kill a werewolf. Secondly, his wounds did not regenerate, but would be carried with him/her in whatever form he took.
So for me, in the Middle Ages, a comparison of mindless vampire who more resembled a zombie against the animalistic werewolf is a no contest. The lycanthrope wins.
The same contest in modern day Hollywood? Still a toss up.
vincegamer
Active member
Lurch, why did you have to go and muddy things up with \"facts.\"
Just kidding. Very interesting.
I just want to point out one aspect of the werewolf hollywood mythos that\'s overlooked. In the original Wolfman movie, it was not just any silver that would kill a werewolf, but a silver weapon wielded by someone who loved the werewolf (thus his brother beat him to death with a silver-handled cane).
So I\'m still sticking with my werewolves are cooler because no one loves a vampire.
Just kidding. Very interesting.
I just want to point out one aspect of the werewolf hollywood mythos that\'s overlooked. In the original Wolfman movie, it was not just any silver that would kill a werewolf, but a silver weapon wielded by someone who loved the werewolf (thus his brother beat him to death with a silver-handled cane).
So I\'m still sticking with my werewolves are cooler because no one loves a vampire.
Einion
New member
How long is a piece of string?Originally posted by marineboy
@Einion ...The essence of the matter here is, what do you believe?
Erm, John Woo?
Oh he could, he\'s just much stronger at night when his supernatural powers kick in. I just checked the novel and it\'s implicit in the climactic scene that sunlight alone will not kill him, \"The sun was almost down on the mountain tops\" when Harker prises the lid off the crate. Mina\'s narrative continues, \"I saw the Count lying within the box upon the earth...\" They kill Dracula with their knives (interesting, no stake) and the body turns to dust.
LOL
Nice Ted Cassidy avatar
Has someone been reading McNally\'s book? For the record the full job was - stake through heart (hawthorn preferably according to some sources because of the association with the crown of thorns), garlic stuffed in mouth and stitched shut, head cut off and replaced face down, the coffin weighted with stones before the lid was nailed in place and disposed on in running water <phew>
This discussion has me itching to paint one of those fab \"Alex the vampire\" busts!
Einion
Godlikebuthumble
New member
Nice facts by Lurch... Still, I prefer the \"embodyment of the beast within\" to the \"walking embodyment of sex and intrigue\" ... starts with all the old werewolf stories... Lykaon and stuff...
Plus, werewolves are waaaay cool
And about kick-bum factor: What lurch said. And in \"modern\" fantasy settings: suffice to say that I sometimes threaten my Vampire party to set a Werewolf on their undying ***es. And not a sissy Vampire-book Werewolf, but a real Apocalypse fleabag.
Plus, werewolves are waaaay cool
And about kick-bum factor: What lurch said. And in \"modern\" fantasy settings: suffice to say that I sometimes threaten my Vampire party to set a Werewolf on their undying ***es. And not a sissy Vampire-book Werewolf, but a real Apocalypse fleabag.
vincegamer
Active member
I guess it all comes down to:
Lon Chaney v. Bela Lugosi?
or The Howling v. Vampire Lestadt?
Lon Chaney v. Bela Lugosi?
or The Howling v. Vampire Lestadt?
GRRRRR... RIP... GNASH!
Wolves, hands down.:wow:
especially that 600\' one from that MT gamelol
you never have seen a giant Vamp. have you???
unless you are praet. and use your wand of wonder on everything you meet.
zzzap
\"It says you enlage target.\"
\"I try again\"
\"It says you enlarge target\"lollol
At least my brother didn\'t try to kill him that session.
Wolves, hands down.
:wow:especially that 600\' one from that MT gamelol
you never have seen a giant Vamp. have you???
unless you are praet. and use your wand of wonder on everything you meet.
zzzap
\"It says you enlage target.\"
\"I try again\"
\"It says you enlarge target\"lollol
At least my brother didn\'t try to kill him that session.
