Vive la France!!!! Just say non!

[Shawn R. L.]

Some basic questions from the \'other side of the pond\'. If all this gets approved will Europe be, offically, one nation or still seperate nations with some shared agreements? Also since the Euro is now the currency is it also the same value from country to country? Do you find in Europe that it is harder and harder to find ANYTHING made domestically and not in China? It\'s that way here.

 

[finn17]

Shawn..very good questions

Let me try and address them point by point:

1) F*ck knows...it all depends on interpretation and implementation. In reality, trying to get European states to agree on anything is as hard as underwater soot juggling and a \'United\' Europe is as likely as Queen Britney....

2) It is not all \'the Euro\'. Good old Great Britain still uses \'funny money\' and is likely to continue to do so as Sterling is very strong and highly negotiable. Try swapping some dollars for some and you will see what I mean

3) There are some great chinese products to be had. Marvellous for the consumer and in real terms no more threatening than the earlier influx of goods from Hong Kong, Korea etc. Can be damaging to individual industries, but who do you think is flogging them all this manufacturing technology in the first place:flip:

 

[abstract_incendiarie]

*Damn Finn posts faster than me, refer to what he says roughly*

AI

 

[finn17]

Oi!

Originally posted by abstract_incendiarie
*Damn Finn posts faster than me, refer to what he says roughly*

WTF do you mean by \'roughly\'?:flip:

 

[Capt spalding]

Originally posted by finn17
As I am a good old Essex boy myself,

which bit steve?

 

[finn17]

Lots actually...

I was born in London, then moved to Basildon...Thundersley...Hadleigh ....Rayleigh as an infant.

As an adult I moved back via Ilford, Romford (Not Essex I know) and eventually set up camp on Canvey Island Wonderful place...

(I did an industrial apprenticeship with Fords so I spent a large amount of time in Dagenham/West Horndon as well)

 

[minimaker]

Origineel geplaatst door LevdirForgive me; I don\'t watch TV and so generally miss out on the news. What\'s going on in the EU?

There is a proposal for a constitution for European Union members and several countries have a referendum about it. France was first. We (the Dutch) will be tomorrow.

The draft constitution:
http://europa.eu.int/constitution/futurum/constitution/table/index_en.htm

Is this related to Turkey wanting to join the Union?

No, though some \"vote no\" people are trying to scare voters into believing \"voting yes\" will get them in. Nonsense since there is nothing special in the constitution that will get Turkey in unless they convince the EU their human rights and economical situation (amongst others) are up to specs. or any other country for that matter.

Unfortunately there are many such nonsense arguments used to influence the voters. Both pro- (increased risk of wars) and contra (to many to list!). I\'m quite pissed off by this since there are all these bastards around who are trying to abuse the fact that the general public is unsufficiently involved and informed for their own personal good which ranges from personal or national political gain to sensationalism (i.e. selling newspapers).

Here is a list with examples of such myths (though these are not specifically on the constitution but more on the EU in general):
http://europa.eu.int/comm/dgs/press_communication/facts/index_en.htm

Situation is quite bad right now. What we will be voting for is the acceptance of the creation of an European constition for EU members as well as it\'s contents. Unfortunately it looks like many people will actually be voting feeling it\'s a vote pro-/contra the EU as an organisation or the local government. I\'ve seen several French say that they voted \"no\" because they had no trust in their current government and their president. So, a protestvote. Which means they screwed up the position and credibility of their country as well as a serious effort to improve the working of the EU (which I feel is open for improvement, especially if it comes to efficiency) just to stick up their middle finger to Chirac.

I have severe doubts that situation will change within the next 24 hours, so I expect that here too there will be many people who vote without actually knowing what it\'s about. Really sad but that\'s the risk of democracy I guess.

I\'ve spend a bit of time studying summaries, commentaries and bits of the actual draft\'s text and while I\'m not finished with that yet, I expect I will be voting yes. I don\'t agree with all of it but sufficiently to want to see it put into service.

The only good thing in the situation is an increased interest in Europe as a group.

Bye, Ming-Hua

 

[Capt spalding]

Originally posted by finn17
I was born in London, then moved to Basildon...Thundersley...Hadleigh ....Rayleigh as an infant.

As an adult I moved back via Ilford, Romford (Not Essex I know) and eventually set up camp on Canvey Island Wonderful place...

(I did an industrial apprenticeship with Fords so I spent a large amount of time in Dagenham/West Horndon as well)

that is so wrong, up to the age of 19 here\'s my list

Rainham, chadwell st mary, stanford no hope, grays, canvey Island, fobbing...


I\'ve also lived in romford, hornchurch and Ilford, before doing ipswich, hadleigh, edinburgh, nottingham, Paris, and nottingham again

ahhhh canvey, Kings holiday camp, the oysterfleet, and who could forget canveys wonderfull seafront with almost 100yards of sand widthways



oh yeah erm.....europe....yeah...err.... what ming said

 

[finn17]

Ming Hua

You are quite right. I would not disagree with anything you say. I too have read all the appropriate documentation.

The thing is..at the end of the day etc...I would rather be a poor Englishman than a rich European. Anything that dilutes my sense of national Identity is anathema, and, I believe that in this country, I am in the majority.

 

[finn17]

OMG!

We have probably been in the Oysterfleet at the same time:flip:

Do you remember when they used to have the strippers...or was that the other one???

I used to mainly drink in the \'Corner Club\' Now if you know where that was then I will be really pleasantly surprised

EDIT: I recognised your \'class\' immediately:bouncy:

EDIT EDIT: I have a sudden realisation however, that I probably preceded you by a decade or two...I am 46

 

[Capt spalding]

I think that if it\'s the one that i think it is then it had become emily\'s by the time that I was legally allowed in there.

corner of the seafront promenade from the charfleets direction?

strippers? that was probably the lobster smack.

 

[finn17]

Lobster Smack..that\'s the one. Had their own micro brewery...

Used to produce wonderfully named stuff like Thames Bitter...lol

No the club you are talking about I used to frequent as well. It was a \'proper\' club at that time as well. The \'Corner Club. was opposite the \'Canvey Club\' in the outskirts of town and was as far removed from the accepted notion of \'club\' as you can imagine. The average age was over 60...God that sounds sad, but believe me I experienced some of the wildest parties imaginable in there

EDIT: Before we bore everyone shitless my email is steveapted@aol.com and I am on MSN. Alternatively, we just keep boring everyone shitless. I\'m cool....

 

[Capt spalding]

well it is true to form, get two essex boys together during an important discussion about the state of the european union........and watch them talk about which pubs they got pissed in on Canvey :bouncy:

mail you later

cheers
seth

 

[finn17]

Anytime....

Originally posted by Capt spalding
mail you later

cheers
seth

Fill your boots...

Cos we also need to discuss the Admiral Jellico and that strange pub in the centre of town with the lake behind it :bouncy:

 

[minimaker]

Origineel geplaatst door finn17Anything that dilutes my sense of national Identity is anathema, and, I believe that in this country, I am in the majority.

I can imagine that but I\'m wired differently. I am Dutch and proud of it, but I\'ve always been aware that I\'m part of Europe as well. I\'ve never seen Europe as a threat to the Dutch identity. Partly because I know the Dutch too well to feel any doubt about that. But also because of my multi-cultural/national family and me living close to both Germany and Belgium. That made me aware of my Dutch identity but also made me feel part of something bigger since visiting those countries wasn\'t much more difficult than visiting another Dutch city.

 

[finn17]

You are quite right Ming Hua..

We are not saying different things. It is probably easier to accept the concept of \'Europeanness\' if you are part of that general land mass. We live on an island however and our thinking is insular..surprise!!! It\'s also small-minded possibly..I wouldn\'t argue that point either.

I do see becoming \'European\' as a threat however. And I will have to be dragged, kicking and screaming to that future should it (God forbid) ever occur.

If I am no longer \'English\' then I have no identity or wish to live. It\'s a simple as that. Sounds idiotic, but pretty common over here I am afraid.

Also...if we were to give our allegiance to anybody..It wouldn\'t be \'Europe\' simply because there isnt an identifiable body that everyone agrees to be \'Europe\'.

I know we in the UK are laughed off as America\'s poodle or lap dog, but that is where I\'d rather be. The \'special relationship\' has survived two major World Wars and many other battles along the way. I\'d rather be another American State than a clone in Chirac\'s new European Reich....

 

[Shawn R. L.]

Question for you Brit\'s. I hear of things being refered to as \'proper\'. I think you said \'a proper pub\'. What distinguishes something as being proper and another as not? I thought a pub was a pub. Mabey quality or mabey not.

 

[finn17]

Shawn..just ignore that term..

It is totally subjective. Someone\'s \'proper\' pub would be someone else\'s fleapit...

Has as much meaning as the word \'good\' ie it depends on who said it..

 

[green stuff]

Message original : finn17
Also...if we were to give our allegiance to anybody..It wouldn\'t be \'Europe\' simply because there isnt an identifiable body that everyone agrees to be \'Europe\'.

Considering France\'s vote, there are few chances of having an identifiable body called \"Europe\" in the near futur.

Message original : finn17
I know we in the UK are laughed off as America\'s poodle or lap dog, but that is where I\'d rather be. The \'special relationship\' has survived two major World Wars and many other battles along the way. I\'d rather be another American State than a clone in Chirac\'s new European Reich....

1. Chirac didn\'t participate in the writing phase of the constitution;
2. Europe\'s governing body is a parlement ... where is the Empire in that?
3. Somebody from the United Kingdom worrying about an Empire ... how strange .

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originnaly by Minimaker

I have severe doubts that situation will change within the next 24 hours, so I expect that here too there will be many people who vote without actually knowing what it\'s about. Really sad but that\'s the risk of democracy I guess.

It\'s all too true. We as a general population of the UK don\'t bother to consider the reality of situations and effects in our voting.
All too many vote according to \"Party Colours\" without reading the manifesto\'s and their implications. Our last election was dominated by media captions designed to elicit negative reactions.
Our attention span is destroyed by \"Snapshot TV coverage\" of elections and political issues. So why should we be surprised when we find that governments are doing things that we object to. Our \'faith\' in politicians is almost non existant, our political system is still mired in the history of the \'Nobilty\' and the \'landed gentry\'.

True democracy in this country has failed.

If this was a democracy there would be the need for a \"Vote of Abstention\". But politicians are too scared as this would mean that they would have to take account of the total apathy that is being shown. The only thing that any politician wants is another term in office.

Sadly we get what we vote for: In some repects its akin to walking down the middle of a busy street with your wallet wide open and then feeling agrieved that someone nicked the contents.