Vive la France!!!! Just say non!

supervike

Super Moderator
a few points...

Originally posted by MarkusTay
Originally posted by Lurch
Actually, this is a good time for us Americans to make our Rackham and other overseas purchases.Last month the exhange rate was 1 EUR = 1.76 USD

today:
1 EUR = 1.23377 USD

In fact, after the Netherlands vote \"NEE\"
I predict another drop in the exchange rates.
Rackham.. here I come :p
Oh my God! This is great lol

If this isn\'t the definition of all things \'American\'...

\"They seem to be having a spot of trouble overseas, maybe we can turn this to our financial advantage?\"

Thank you Lurch for proving the stereotype, that was the best chuckle I\'ve had today. :D

On a serious note, someone mentioned that \'cheap foreign labor\' will destroy your economies. We were fed this same bowl of horsesh_t when they were trying to pass NAFTA. Let me tell you a little story...

A long time ago I was a laborer in the construction trade. As time went on and I started getting my own work I needed help. Most of the American labor was too expensive (and lazy) for me to make any money, so I would do what every other guy was doing. I would pick-up a few El Salvadoran day-laborers to work for me. I paid them well, bought them lunch, and only made them work a normal eight hour day. In return, they worked their asses off, made me money, and made more money for themselves IN ONE DAY then they would make in a week back home. People complain that they take our jobs, but that simply isn\'t so. By moving here in droves (millions) and doing jobs no one else wants they fill a need and in return create a further market for more goods and services in the areas they occupy. Instead of hurting the Long Island economy they have boosted it. Although this may be a terrible thing to say, the truth is in order for a person to MOVE UP the socio-economic ladder there must be someone else willing to move into the bottom. More Americans have moved into positions of skilled labor because the lower jobs were filled, and the people who filled them have JUST AS MUCH a chance to move up when the next wave hits. I\'m not trying to sound like some sort of elitist jerk, but this is simply how the world works. Take a long hard look at America before you start complaining about immigrants \'raining\' on your parade. Immigration and more importantly Intergration is the future, it\'s what keeps our capitalist juggernaught rumbling ever FORWARD.

or I could be totally wrong... who the hell knows? lol

:D;)

The entire Europeon Union is all about economics and money, its not just an \'American\' trait to look for the angle. You may not like it (i don\'t either), but money is what makes the world go around.

The \'Americans are lazy and greedy\' argument is bunk. Maybe the ones you ran into were, but don\'t buy into that sort of stereotyping. I shovelled shit for money when I was younger. That\'s not a metaphor, I shovelled actual shit, bailed hay, worked in fields, whatever I could do to make money. I\'m not too proud to work. I consider myself very lucky to be in the job I am now, but I also know that I\'ve worked my entire life to get here. If something would happen where I lost my job, I\'d be pounding the pavement trying to find work.

On Immigration. I support it 100 percent. America was built by immigrants, and we should be happy to take them in. BUT, it should be done legally. I agree we need to do some serious overhauls of our current system. Companies that hire illegal immigrants (knowingly) should be fined and prosecuted if need be. But the current system is failing, badly. We shouldn\'t allow people to break the law, and then be rewarded for it.

The cost of health insurance is staggering, and having the burden of millions of uninsured illegal patients in the system is choking it down. And guess who pays for that? The Taxpayer. And I don\'t know about you, but I already think my taxes are excessively high. So it all comes back to money...
 

marineboy

New member
Originally posted by frenchkid
I definetly think there is a european cultur.

There must be a european culture. Every time I\'m in New York I hear the locals refering to certain types of tourists as \"eurotrash.\"

There must be common identifying traits, I guess.???lol
 

Lurch

New member
Originally posted by MarkusTay
On a serious note, someone mentioned that \'cheap foreign labor\' will destroy your economies. We were fed this same bowl of horsesh_t when they were trying to pass NAFTA. Let me tell you a little story...

A long time ago I was a laborer in the construction trade. As time went on and I started getting my own work I needed help. Most of the American labor was too expensive (and lazy) for me to make any money, so I would do what every other guy was doing. I would pick-up a few El Salvadoran day-laborers to work for me. I paid them well, bought them lunch, and only made them work a normal eight hour day. In return, they worked their asses off, made me money, and made more money for themselves IN ONE DAY then they would make in a week back home. People complain that they take our jobs, but that simply isn\'t so. By moving here in droves (millions) and doing jobs no one else wants they fill a need and in return create a further market for more goods and services in the areas they occupy. Instead of hurting the Long Island economy they have boosted it. Although this may be a terrible thing to say, the truth is in order for a person to MOVE UP the socio-economic ladder there must be someone else willing to move into the bottom. More Americans have moved into positions of skilled labor because the lower jobs were filled, and the people who filled them have JUST AS MUCH a chance to move up when the next wave hits. I\'m not trying to sound like some sort of elitist jerk, but this is simply how the world works. Take a long hard look at America before you start complaining about immigrants \'raining\' on your parade. Immigration and more importantly Intergration is the future, it\'s what keeps our capitalist juggernaught rumbling ever FORWARD.

or I could be totally wrong... who the hell knows? lol

:D;)

So let me see if I have this correct....
You decided that to hire American labor to do the job was too costly, so you hired immigrant laborers to do the job at a lower cost.
(Now I realize that the rest of this is speculation, but if it truely is, as you say, \"like everyone else\" I have reason to believe it to be true)
When you paid these \"undocumented\" laborers, you probably did not pay their social security, FICA, or state income taxes. These laborers probably did what most of them do and sent the money you paid them back to their families in El Salvador, thus having the funds leave the general area.

And somehow, this money leaving the state with no taxes paid by non-american workers proves your point that its\' affect on the Long Island economy is positive, and also proves that Americans losing their jobs because of NAFTA is \" a bowl of Horsesh_t?\" :wow:

I\'m sorry. Did I miss an important part here?:rolleyes:
 

finn17

New member
Very wise words indeed my friend...

Originally posted by Astorderire
Maybe my intend was to write that before trying to unite people under the same constitution, it seems wise to wait that they want to be united.
Now us Europeans can sit back, it seems, and watch the Yanks get out their pitchforks and handbagslol:bouncy:

Never a dull moment on the CMON forums....
 

supervike

Super Moderator
Originally posted by Lurch
When you paid these \"undocumented\" laborers, you probably did not pay their social security, FICA, or state income taxes

I agree with what you said Mr. Lurch, but I\'d just like to raise a point.

(not necessarily in Markustay\'s case, but)
Many of the \'illegal immigrants\' pay into Social Security. To get hired, they provide a \'fake Social Security Number\' Of course, the companies that hire them eventually get something back from the government saying the SSN is in error, but no one ever does anything about it. That money keeps rolling in. The sad thing is the \'illegal immigrant\' will NEVER collect on that money. They can\'t with a fake number. BUT that money has to go somewhere. Do the politicians and bureaucrats know this and keep it as a \'rainy-day\' fund, or something a bit more shadowy? It sure would explain the laxness in trying to put a stop to the problem.

If you had just 100,000 illegal immigrants working with a fake SSN (that is a very conservitive guess, and some estimates put it in the MILLIONS) and the Social Security tax takes 35 bucks a week (again extremely conservative), thats 14 million a month in basically untraceble monopoly money. That\'d buy a lot of something.;)
 

Etherion

New member
Quote Supervike: That\'d buy a lot of something.

It\'ll buy a lot of Minis! :bouncy: Or Miniaturemanufacturingcompanies for that matter. lol
 

dauber22

New member
SHARE?????

Originally posted by supervike
So, why don\'t they just share it with us??

What EVER gave you the impression that government had ANYthing to do with sharing ???lol
\"Give us a chunk of your money and, after we\'ve run out of things to do with it, if we should have any left over, perhaps we may see fit to send some of it back to you - and call it a gift.\"
 

MarkusTay

New member
To Whomever -

I don\'t need help on my jobs all the time; 95% of the time I work alone. Many small-time construction guys like me often hire guys for a day or two, not full time. It\'s not worth going through all the paperwork for a \'temp\', whether they are an American or an Immigrant. When I need skilled labor (American), I pay them in cash as well. The immigrants that live on LI have families here, very large extended families, and most of the money stays local. It was estimated about two years ago in a local paper that there was currently MORE El Salvadorans living on LI then in El Salvador! Considering LongIsland is about twice the size of that country it doesn\'t seem unfeasable. When I go shopping, roughly about half the people I see are hispanic, buying food, clothes, electronics... you name it. I saw a non-English speaking family purchasing a $5000 Sony Flatscreen HDTV from BestBuy one night. I\'m sure the salesman didn\'t ask them for their greencards. If a person feels their job is threatened by unskilled, un-educated migrant laborers, then they need to take a serious look at their own sorry existance.

Originally posted by supervike
I shovelled actual shit...
Really?! Actual shit? Not that fake stuff I used to shovel? ;)

lol:bouncy::flip:
 

minimaker

New member
Hi,

being one of the Dutch members I thought I\'d beter be the one to post this. The Dutch have voted against the European constitution withabout 62% against and 38% in favour. 62% of legitimate voters came and voted, which is pretty high.
Right now I can\'t yet say whether I\'m happy about it or not, this will depend on the reason people voted against it. If it turns out it\'s just a middle finger to our Harry Potter or because people are believing all the things extreme right and extreme left are claiming then I\'m going to be pretty pissed off. If it is, as many have said, because they don\'t agree with elements of the \"constitution\", the procedures which have led to it or the way Brussels works, then I\'m ok with it. I voted in favor by the way but up till the last moment I\'ve had second thoughs. By the way, if it turns out that the vote was anti-Europe then I\'m going to be very, very surprised as that would be the first time this country feels that way.

Bye, Ming-Hua
 

finn17

New member
That\'s very interesting Ming Hua...

If I was a gambling man I would have made some money...but not a lot;)

I would have said between 60:40 and 70:30 against....

I know some people are upset, but we have only rejected a piece of paper. There are plenty more pieces of paper in the sea....:flip:
 

finn17

New member
Damn! Always get those two mixed up....

I Don\'t suppose anyone\'ll be queuing up for a fish-supper round at my house:|~
 

MarkusTay

New member
Originally posted by finn17
Damn! Always get those two mixed up....
You wipe your ass with a fish? :eek:

So that\'s what Sturmy was doing on that perch...:rolleyes:

Weird sense of personal hygiene you British have lol

:p;)
 

minimaker

New member
Origineel geplaatst door finn17 know some people are upset, but we have only rejected a piece of paper.
Actually, having only one paper with all those agreements in them instead of having them spread over several dozens of contracts and departments was one of the reasons I was in favor of it.

One good thing is that there is much more of an interest in Europe now. At the last European election the percentage of voters was 30%. I hope it stays and I hope they EU and government realise people here are a tad tired of how Brussels does things. To much distance, too littel involvement of the people.

Of course, from the public side there more constructive criticism instead of just complaining would be nice. :)
 

finn17

New member
I couldn\'t agree with you more Ming-Hua..

But that one piece of paper was seriously flawed. Even quite a few of it\'s most ardent supporters admit that, and many more will \'fess up\' now that it has been put out of it\'s misery.

There is an old British saying, \"Marry in haste, repent at leisure\".

Quite appropriate I feel...
 

finn17

New member
Why should I wipe my small horse with a fish?

Originally posted by MarkusTay
You wipe your ass with a fish? :eek:

So that\'s what Sturmy was doing on that perch...:rolleyes:

Weird sense of personal hygiene you British have lol
I wipe my arse with paper (preferably the Daily Mail), if I had an ass that required wiping, I would probably just use a hose and then cover it in a blanket whilst it dried.
 

minimaker

New member
Yes, that is also one of the reasons many people here voted against. Thing is though that a lot of what\'s in there is already set in other existing agreements. And one of the reasons I had my doubts till the last moment.

Many people here also felt things went too fast. But that\'s something I blame on the politicians here as they have not really tried to raise interest till the last month.

Best thing now would be to have another look at the constitutions, rework it with some public involvement and put it to the test again. The only thing is that this shouldn\'t take too long. The EU needs to get their act together fast or chaos is going to be worse than it already is. With the current world situation we need a stronger common voice (as far as that is possible in Europe) so we better discuse trade with China and other \"large scale\" issues.

Bye, Ming-Hua (off to bed now)
 
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