Voting on old submissions?

[Milosh]

I have worked my way through voting on all of the new submissions and am now getting stuff pop up from 2002-2009. My question is this: is it fair to judge the old submissions against today's more refined and artistic painting and basing? I am seeing high 8's and 9's that wouldn't be voted that high by todays standards. It kind of reminds me of olympic athletes from the 80's having their saved testing samples re-tested today. They are able to detect PED's today that they couldn't detect back then. As a result more and more athletes are being labled cheaters for using PED's. I don't think that is fair, so is it fair to judge yesterdays work to todays standards?

On the flip side, I am also discovering some forgotten nuggets of figure art I had never seen before. It's kind of cool to travel through the time machine of the gallery.

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[Einion]

Well cheating sporting competitors (Olympics, Tour de France or whatever) deserve to be labelled as cheats if they were cheating and simply got away with it... as long as the same standard is being applied to everyone.

Anyway back to CMON, on older entries it isn't really fair to judge them by the standards of today. Some of it is viewers like us becoming more knowledgeable and hence discerning about what high-end work can be but of course so many aspects of the hobby have moved on in the last 10+ years; some current pieces are better in every respect to the best of the best from previous decades, there's just no comparison.

Einion

 

[TrystanGST]

I see the point, but when I'm voting thru the gallery I don't look at submission date. Most of the highly rated ones from 2003 have so many votes that my 7 isn't going to tank their 9 anyways.

 

[QuietiManes]

Well, it's not like the votes received are date tagged and displayed for comparison, so, on the other hand, it could be "unfair" for their "old work" to sit there with a 7, 8 or 9 right beside a significantly better submission made more recently, with the same score.

In short, my opinion is that it is completely fair to judge a miniature with whatever standards you have at the time of judging, regardless of the submission date stamp.

 

[shakes]

Hey Milosh, this is a really interesting subject! It's not something I have ever thought about before but now that I am I have to say that I don't think you should even have the option to vote on old models. I feel this way for two main reasons that are tied into one another. For one, as you mentioned, I don't feel that older models should be held to today's standards. As Enion said the hobby has advanced so far in the last decade that in many cases there is no comparison. This is not only due to the ability of painters but also due to the ability of sculptors and castors who are producing finer and finer miniatures. Smoother surfaces,more defined details, etc. allow for the painting to be pushed further in my opinion. This is not to say there isn't older sculpts and casts that aren't absolutely amazing because there is, but I feel with new technology the amount of hi quality miniatures is becoming higher and higher.

The second reason I don't think voting on older models should occur is because if all older models continued to get voted on in
another decade they may very well have been bumped down to a much lower score. I think being able to see where we were 10 years ago and how far the hobby has now progressed is amazing. The ability to see where a 9.5 was a decade ago compared to now is brilliant. I feel we would actually lose a piece of miniature history if older paint jobs continued to be bumped down.

I think it would be really cool if submissions had voting cut off after one or two years from the date of submission. Wherever they are at the end of that period is where they would stay. Then we would always be able to look back and see where we've come from and how far we have progressed.

Just my thoughts, again great topic Milosh.

Shakes

 

[Dragonsreach]

This is a highly interesting topic Milosh, and as someone who hit a 9 way back 2007(ish) I think you've raised a very good point.
I will readily and openly admit that judging that figure against todays standard that the vote could be nowhere near a 9.
Would I be happy to see it drop below its score? NO....BUT in comparison with some of the fantastic stuff I see almost everyday I wouldn't whinge about it.

Overall the level of gallery work over the last few years has dramatically changed (as has been mentioned before and eleswhere) people like Ana, Natakan, Haley, Mrika, Odinsgrandson, Karol Rudyk have improved the standards so much that the expectations of the viewr have changed. In similar fashion those named painters have also made people like myself attempt to "up my game" so that I'm happier with my work than I have been for a long time.

I'm also going to suggest that for the likes of Ana etc, because they are commission painters have and additional driving force 'Keeping the customer satisified'. So its because of collectors who want outstanding and high quality work that the level is being driven up and up.
Ana's recent Rasputina is a classic example of work being forced into higher gear and while I don't like HRGeiger's work I have to sit back and admire the sheer quality of the freehand on that piece.

So in essence am I worried that 2007 work is getting voted on alongside 2013 work, not really. I see the 2012-13 work as an inspiration and a 'poke from a sharp stick' to work even harder to improve.

 

[10 ball]

Great thread Milosh - The painting from 10 years ago of course is not the same standard as now, but you could not take the score down because the standard is 'of it's day'
A modern day Ford has got better handling that a 1960's sports car but that does not make the classic car rubbish.
The examples are all through history, sports, movies etc. - A Spitfire fighter plane, a 10/10 aircraft in the 1940's but its not a F22 of today.
A 9/10 paintjob of 1999 will always be a 9/10 paintjob imo as long as you take into account the day it was painted.

 

[SkelettetS]

have to admit i dont bother when the mini is painted when i see it, all thats matter is if its cool or not. so i guess i do vote down many old top pieces...

 

[tanis5811]

I agree with shakes. I think it's great to see how the scores differ through time and how our hobby is evolving.