Wanna Go Pro ... How does it happen?

[Christiano]

Hey all.

I know this might be presumptious and stuff, but im looking for like a aprenticeship type deal with a \"propainting\" company.

I\'m not too bad at painting, i know i can do about lvl 2-3 standard at least, but i would like some lessons or training, or maybe some low level work to show my worth, i dunno.

If anyone knows anything about this, or is looking for more painters then i\'d like to hear from you.

Oh im from England, I\'m working on some of my stuff and am going to be putting them up on the site, i have 2 on there already but not good pictures, have a new camera now though, soon my works will be up for all to see.

~ Christiano ~

 

[t_haye2]

well, there\'s two way to do it really. One, you can try to get a job at either GW or Rackham, who are at the moment the only two companies in the fantasy/sci fi mini bizz who employ inhouse painters, but you will need to paint about 14 to 20 models a week to a good 8 to 9 standard consistently.(even though you won\'t end up painting to that level) they do not offer training of any kind, so that might not be what you\'re after.
The other way to become pro is to work as a freelancer, which most other companies use, due to not being able to afford someone who\'s only good at painting.(unfortunately not a very valued skill, now, if you were a mac operator....) The way to do this is to build up a name by posting online, winning prizes and trophies in comps, having your own website helps, and selling on ebay. It\'s not an easy life, and you will never get rich off it.
Painting for a living is only viable for people who truly love doing it, and aren\'t looking to buy a house or own a car, or raise a family by the time they\'re 30. sounds cynical? It is, but also realistic. know that the average pro painter will not make more than between 8 to 11 grand a year ever, and you will have to put in a lot of work, about 50 to 70 hours a week.....
now in the light of aprenticeships, i know a few people who teach painting, me being one of them, but it\'s not cheap. I charge for my time, and my expenses, like travel, food and stay.
The best way to pick up skill and improve is to be self taught however, and CMON is the greatest place in the world to get FREE advice and feedback on your work. Becoming a pro painter takes effort and time, i\'ve been painting for over 18 years and only the last 7 or so as a full time pro, either as a freelancer, or in the employ of GW. It\'s not a job you can easily roll into, it takes time, skill, patience, a bit of talent, luck and most important of all, you need to be able to be stress resistant, and not EVER be precious about your work. Doesn\'t matter how good you are, there\'s always someone who will not like the results you\'ve achieved, and mostly it\'s your clients

 

[Chrispy]

:Matrix quote time:
\"Being the One is like being in love, no one can tell you, you just... know.\"

 

[DarkStar]

I have to disagree with T-Haye. I mean, just look at all the \"PRO-PAINTED\" minis for sale up on ebay.:flip::bouncy: Obviously it\'s not THAT hard to be Pro!lol Seriously though, if you\'d like to never be able to afford to buy anything nice for yourself or the people that you would like to buy nice things for, and you don\'t care that you make like, less than 1 Euro an hour, and for the amount of work you put in you would be about 10 times more prosperous working in a Chippie, then sure...work towards becoming pro. The only reason I do it, is become I am certifiably raving mad have been for a decade, and it\'s about the only thing I can do for a living where I don\'t have to come into contact with actual living people. Food for thought

 

[Trevor]

I think strictly speaking a \"pro\" is just someone who earns most of their money from that activity. Doesn\'t necessarily mean you are any good at what you do... lol

 

[Sturmhalo]

You need quite a bit of luck in my opinion. Just being in the right place at the right time really does help. Unfortunately that\'s not necessarily something you can engineer. I\'ve had a couple very lucky breaks which have helped me no end.

Also just being good at what you do. People can see how good you are. If you try selling on Ebay eventually people will notice you and your value will rise (hopefully). Getting your name known is a great help too.

Tammy\'s right about the money though. Full time positions with companies are few and far between. GW\'s the best known but there are occasionally positions with other companies (though most only take freelance work). On a salary you\'re unlikely to earn more than £12,000 before tax etc, more likely less than £10,000 though (I believe GW were paying £9000 when I last saw their vacancy ad!). Freelancing you\'ll probably make less (potentially a lot less). Breaking even each month can sometimes be a struggle and might end up being your only goal. As something short term it\'s ok, but if you want any hope of getting a mortgage, a loan, or just being able to buy the stuff you want (not necessarily expensive stuff either), freelancing is a bad idea. I could triple my income just by stacking shelves across the road at Aldi (a supermarket for pikies!). Don\'t want to put you on a downer, but that\'s how it works. Figure painters are at the bottom end of the miniature chain.

 

[Corvus]

Getting your name know is very important. Start out on eBay and create a website, where you offer your services, or actively look for a freelance position.

 

[t_haye2]

I actually started on £8000 in the Eavy Metal team. it\'s not a glamorous job, but it\'s something I have passion for, it\'s the best way i know how to express my creativity and still be able to make a living(that\'s untill i finish my novel and become a millionaire ofcourse )
@ Darkstar: Being a fulltime profesional painter and getting paid 1 Euro an hour? well, it\'s not that bad, at the moment i\'m hoovering between £4.50 and £10, depending on how much work i\'m getting in. After tax that doesn\'t leave you with a lot more than minimum wage, and frankly, i have been looking for a part time job just to top up my regular income, becuase the summer is being very slow indeed. There are all kinds of things you need to keep into account, your marketing is the most important tool you have, plus finding new ways to paint or present models...I\'m going to go back to army painting for a while, and i\'m working on some units for Ebay to EM army standard to see if that\'s worth my time. The funniest thing about being a fulltime painter is the mosconception of people that you\'ll paint one model a week and be able to make a living...more like 2 to 4 a day, depending on quality/rate of pay.

@Christiano: my advice is to stick around CMON a bit, learn from the comments people will leave you, and by observing other people\'s work. I don\'t want to sound rude, and this is by no means meant as a put down, but you have a long way to go before you\'re at the standard required by companies, judging by the models you have on here.you\'d be able to paint army standard, and depending on how fast you are, that might be a good starting point. i\'d suggest knocking out a unit or two and sticking them up on Ebay, just to get a feel for how much your work is \'worth\' right now.

 

[Rachel]

Army stuff is where the good solid money is - it\'s what gets me my best hourly rate. I can generally get about $15-18 USD or so an hour (well, that\'s the aim - sometimes more, sometimes less, generally bang-on), and work a fulltime week. In NZD it translates to somewhere between $35000 and $40000 a year - the average wage is about $22000. I\'m fully freelance - Ebay and commissions. The most reliable money is obviously commissions, as you know upfront how much you\'ll get back for your time. Ebay is hit-and-miss.

I\'m a bit slack with the marketing side of it though, and really need to get a move on because after August I\'ve got nothing concrete.

It\'s certainly no less effort than a regular job - my husband and I are both self-employed, and often get the \'aren\'t you lucky\' line from our regular-jobbed friends. What they don\'t realise is that yeah, sure, it\'s nice to be able to go see a movie in the afternoon when no-one else is there, or go to the gym in the offpeak hours, or even be able to make more money simply by working more... but what they miss is that if you\'re sick? Not working, not getting paid. There\'s no holiday leave, and your income is only as secure as the next job. Which is only if the client doesn\'t do a runner (only happened to me once so far fortunately).

I\'ll take it over a 9-5 any day though

But it definitely takes a while to build up to a point where you can go fulltime. Ebay\'s a useful way to get some recognition, although you can\'t actually advertise that you take commissions on there (although some people still do, annoys me no end - I had an auction ended once for linking to my site which mentioned it but people have it all over the bloody place).

good luck though, and make sure you have a comfy chair and good lighting, or your back and eyeballs will be complaining thoroughly at the end of the day.

 

[finn17]

Oiii!!!!!

Originally posted by Sturmhalo
I could triple my income just by stacking shelves across the road at Aldi (a supermarket for pikies!).

Watch it Mr Halo! I\'ll have you know, I shop at Aldi\'s. And Lidl\'s....

 

[Grey Mouser]

You might try taking samples to some of the conventions of a particular manufacturers mini\'s preferably a company you can stand to paint for..There is nothing more disturbing than painting a figure you can\'t stand the sight of. You might try running a painting service? None of these things will make you very much money. It\'s a crumby life style. I do it, but my spouse has a great job so it\'s just extra income. Most companies don\'t want to pay a whole lot for display mini\'s IMHO.

(games workshop aside 8,000 pounds #@!* thats good money for painting! You lucky devil!)

Most companies like to comp you with tons of unpainted product! You can\'t eat the mini\'s so you better get to painting and selling quick.

Rachel\'s right painting mass armies is a good approach more money if your quick! But most people can\'t afford an army of level 8-9 paint jobs so they beg you to do less for them which stiffles the creativity a little... and it\'s very boring painting somebody elses armies and you have no time for anything you like or own. In addition people will be constantly pestering you to finish by a given deadline... mostly because they have no concept of what it takes to actually paint the mini... To me that gets old quick.

Unless your really into painting, selling, driving to conventions, setting up a booth, selling on E-bay and painting everybody elses stuff except your own stick to painting as a hobby and sell the occassional piece on E-bay to make some extra cash.

 

[t_haye2]

(games workshop aside 8,000 pounds #@!* thats good money for painting! You lucky devil!)

good money? Are you mad? that\'s before tax, and obviously taking into account living expenses in the UK are higher than in europe(well, most countries anyway) and the USA. it\'s not exactly minimum, but average wages in the UK are £12.000-£13.500 a year... Plus the fact you are forbidden by contract to work for any other company in the industry, or run your own...no, GW pay their painters a pittance, you get paid better packing blisters in the factory!

 

[Grey Mouser]

Well ok when you put it that way... LOL It sounded good till I thought about it! I figured the look at the new stuff .. the pay ..possible freebies... thinking with my mini\'s instead of my brain I guess... LOL. Since you put it that way that is crumby too.

 

[t_haye2]

and you\'ve just touched the most important point of it. You lose your hobby. Yes, you get staff discount(no freebees), but you don\'t WANT to paint for yourself after having to paint models for 8 to 10 hours a day....like I said, I do it because I simply refuse to not do anything creative with my time, and although, if the work is coming in steadily, I make a bit more than when I was with GW, I would actually tell most people to get a normal day job and keep their hobby. You might think that\'s elitist, but it breaks people\'s joy of painting more than the negative sides of being a full time painter are worth. EM\'s turnover is exceptionally high, and most guys I know that left alltogether(or got sacked), don\'t paint att all, or only 2 to 3 models a year.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Trying to earn a living at Painting Mini\'s isn\'t going to make you a fortune. Ok you might end up working for GW, but it\'s a limited market place, and you could well end up suffering from burn out.

What Tammy, Rachel and others are saying makes sense. Use your spare time to paint for Ebay or commission. But try to either get a constant wage on which you can rely, or win the lottery. I know which one I would bank on.
Build up your skill levels, earn a reputation and then approach companies about freelancing.
But remember in order to paint to a high quality you must be willing to sacrifice the time.
I\'ve just painted two figures to a good display quality (7-8 on here) and each one has taken me approximatley 8 hours. Now if I were to charge the rate I get at my real job that would be £12.30/hour or £98.00 a figure. In that range we are talking \"Serious\" commission money and I know that I\'m not that good.

Start small, aim to sell small and often, to earn enough to justify the sales and put some extra in your pocket. That way you\'ll keep the joy of the hobby as well.

 

[t_haye2]

that\'s the best way to do it if you\'re just starting out.

 

[Christiano]

First off wow... didnt expect anyone to reply... thanks

Secondly.. Geezzz guys you make the whole thing sound a awful lot less tempting that it did when i frist started out.. well i have a plan of where to get munies.. its all rather complicated. but im sure it will work, once i get that uderway the cash should roll in and i wouldnt have to do long hours.

i guess ill take ur advice, and keep it up as a hobby painting stuff as good as i can and posting it on this lovely website and on E-bay, Earn a few Quid Ear and There...

maybe somone will say hey you.. you over there... and ill say you talkin to me?
and maybe things will progress..

untilll then... anyone got a recomendation of paints and styles i should use to paint a Rekham Wolfen Prowler, hes my first project since i stopped painting for a while..

 

[Flashman14]

Don\'t foregt there\'s no pension or health benefits either.

Think to the future: Marry rich, win the lotto, don\'t get sick ever - especially when you enter middle age.

As fun and rewarding it is for me it will always remain a hobby.

 

[Jarrett Lee]

It\'s a \"to each their own\" type of thing, but I like my approach best: work a totally unrelated job for your full time salary, and supplement it with miniature sales.

That way, I always feel fresh and invigorated about painting and it stays fun - when I try to paint \"as a job\" (large commissions) I find that the fun factor really goes out the window.

Also, lots of money is a nice thing to have I can buy whatever minis I want, or paints, without even blinking. I would estimate that selling minis just on ebay part time earns me an extra 6-10,000 per year Canadian. It got high enough that I decided to claim it as home business income and collect receipts for tax purposes.

Marketing, as someone mentioned, is totally critical. Maintain a consistent image (on ebay and other places), build a website and keep it updated, and stay active on CMON and in the mini community. And regarding sales, provide exceptional reliability and customer service and quality (although we all slip from time to time) and customers will keep coming back for more.

My 2 cents.

Jarrett

 

[elouchard]

Christiano,

There is no reason to get discouraged. One thing to note in all the post is that it is possible to make pretty good money. What you have to remember when you\'re painting is that you are your own manager, cracking the whip on yourself. Speed is the key as it dictates your wage rate, so mastering basic techniques and getting blazing fast will really help in making money. From there you can decide how much detail your really want to put into the figures.

You can learn alot by just looking at figures here and reading the tutorials. I can\'t stress this enough though, use the information but don\'t copy someone else\'s style. Unique style will separate you from others and get you repeat customers who want that style.

If you really want to start immediately I recommend working on speed then selling on Ebay in the mid range (ie. see what the average starting price is and put it there) range to start. Maybe try a simpler figure though for selling, though.

Eric