warhammers prices n history

[wightzombie]

i gots a history question and a salty observation.

on the history side, why did GW raise its prices so damn much so long ago. i remeber a couple years after getting in the hobby and finally starting to colllect a army GW raised thier prices, pissed me off and closed down two local shops sometime after by raising the minumum limit as to what a store can order.

now as i hear through total rumour and what not, the owner orf then said GW sold it to a new person no? who was the owner? was it this bill king guy who is credited in many early GW books? i know after GW raised its prices bill king did some work for target games. what the hell hapened thier also with the price hike? so far it hasnt back fired horendously but it still seems mighty anal as htey are the biggest also, so if you equate supply demand etc..... does R&D cost so much? so does anyone have any info on what went down and why the sucky price hike? ive quite gotten over it by now but i would like some accurate or even rumoured info as to what went down and why.

and my salty observation is this. why in hte hell must they revise the 40k and fantasy system every what, three years now? there already making revisions for races for the next revise of warhammer even though thier in the very slo middle of the current one. there already talking about mass mistakes that were made in the current ones that will be adressed in the next revisoion like its riight around the corner! sometimes i wish they would just collect all thier crap, knock on 40k or fantasy very hard, get the damn thing done, models rules and all, then move to the next one. they are so spotty and half arsed so to speak, its like thiers no one force that can direct that talented bunch. are they just going to endlessly update models and rules or are they going to finalize some crap and work long and hard for the next revision years away. (5 or more plz!) hell, how many revisions has D&D been through?

peace out, rant and questions ova!

 

[Jericho]

Supposedly WHFB won\'t be revised again, aside from those Warhammer Chronicles articles and the Annual.

40k will supposedly get a 4th edition that encompasses the massive amount of little tweaks and changes that\'ve developed in the last 4 years. If all the subtle hints can be trusted, there would be very little new stuff in the 4th edition books and all current Codices would work with it just fine.

Overall I\'m quite happy buying new stuff from GW from time to time. The models keep getting better and better, who can argue with that? The rules are getting better too. Things are getting very well honed in the latest rules, a lot of the loopholes have been plugged and gameplay is relatively speedy with all the little kinks worked out. A new rulebook for either would simply put all those little fixes in one spot so it\'s even easier to play when you start.

 

[Thri-Keen Priest]

GW Sorcery

Ah, GW is writing games to sell more models. They market their new lines by writing rules which give the new armies an advantage, then add supplements to existing armies to counter that advantage, ad infinitum. Not to blame them; most anyone is going to make whatever moves they can to maximize their profits.

That being said, some of their stuff is *so* cool! I still buy a lot of GW, but also lots of other makes too.

TKP

 

[Chern Ann]

GW history is well covered elsewhere, but in a nutsell prices started moving up slowly while the company was growing, and suddenly shot up just before the company went for a public listing to get funds to expand. Higher prices/margins meant a more attractive initial public offer (IPO) and more interested investors.

 

[Sturmhalo]

I also remember when GW first began their price hike. Remember when you could get a pack of 5 figures for £2.99? These days you\'re looking at £6.00 for 3! Charge more for less (same with their paints!)! And how can they get away with charging £6.00 for 3 Tau Pathfinders and then charging £5.00 for a Tau Pathfinder team leader (coincidentally a one piece casting compared to the other pack of models which are two piece castings)?

I\'m not sure when exactly GW passed completely from the hands of Jackson & Livingstone to Brian Ansell and his consortium but that seems to me like an important part of the GW story. Assuming this was sometime in the mid 80\'s it could signal the start of the company expanding (though not detrimentally). The early 90\'s saw GW suddenly expand to the collossus that it has become today. I wonder whether Mr Ansell was one of those behind the initial desire to make more of the company towards the end of the 80\'s. Just look at Foundry in recent years. Quite large price increases and discontent amongst certain staff (eg. big, longtime sculptors jumping ship, and newer ones not staying for long!)! Could history repeat itself again? Anyway, this is purely my opinion and not necessarily an accurate observation. I\'d be glad to hear from anyone with better information or who could verify my suspicions.???

 

[studio_black]

I started buying gw back when you could get a pack of figs for 5.95 and that was 5 figs not 2 or 3 we see today. 40k was not even out yet

I just have to ask how do the other companies do it keep the price down and makeing a good product

Gw needs to wake up and take care of the gamers and painters not try to every buck they can out of us

alot of the new guys on the block are doing work as good or better than GW I am starting to look in to other figuer makers better stuff at a better price

whats a guy to do
thats my rant

 

[Sturmhalo]

Sorry to rant on again, but it costs peanuts to cast a model. One of the smaller companies out there (Crusader Miniatures) who I recently did a little painting for offered to send me a few figures if I wanted completely free of charge because, as the guy said, they cost virtually nothing to cast! We are talking pennies (or cents) here people. It\'s all a matter of how much you can get away with charging. As GW has the biggest and possibly the most loyal customer base, they can charge what they want as people will always put up with another price hike if they want the figures so badly.

Another example of GW\'s pricing policy gone mad is their \'archive\' section on their on-line store. They had most of the old 87/88 style marines selling for £2.00 each. Not too bad in comparison to their more recent metal marines, though still a bit of sting in the wallet. The other day I looked on the site again and they\'ve put the prices up! £3.00 per figure with command elements being £4.00 per figure! :flame:

Now I understand that the archive models aren\'t really cost effective as they don\'t sell wonderfully well (I think Jervis Johnson stated this in an interview on the SOL web site). So, GW would probably argue that they\'ve increased the price to make it more worth while keeping those old moulds around. Why pay those prices when you might get a bargain on Ebay? Perhaps that\'s what GW want though! Out price the old (good stuff), no one buys it, discontinue availability, then in a couple of years time when these things become real rarities release a limited run of very expensive collectors sets! Am I paranoid or am I paranoid???

GRRRRRR...

 

[Ran The Cid]

Originally posted by studio_black
I just have to ask how do the other companies do it keep the price down and makeing a good product

I\'m really interested to see who these \"other companies\" are. Most every company I\'d consider buying from has similar prices. For example, a typical GW leader figure runs from $8-$12 US. I pay about the same for my confrontation figs & I was pricing Dark Age figs on New wave & most of the best figs seem to retail at $9.99 US.

Reaper\'s new Warlords line is the only company I can think of retailing quality 28mm figs for less than the GW standard (pricing from $4-$5). But then, it is a new line & we will need to see if they can maintain their price structure with out going under.

 

[Mengu]

Costs...

It is true that casting doesn\'t cost much. Here is what costs:

The sculpt: Yes this is a one shot expense, but sculptors need to make a living too, so it can be a steep expense, especially for the better sculpts.

Staff: Yes the miniature companies have to pay their staff in cash, despite the popular belief that they get paid in pewter. Although non-toxic (in small quantities), pewter is not very nutritious.

Advertisement: Here again the popular belief is that miniature buyers will find the miniature companies regardless of their popularity. Unfortunately advertisement is the only way to get new blood, and is the only way to get the business bigger.

Then there are other standard busniess expenses such as rent/property, shipping, reseller profits, taxes, etc.

I\'m not trying to justify the costs here, but I\'m saying you can\'t sell miniatures for a buck a piece and make a living. Depending on their goals and strategies anywhere from $4-$8 is a reasonable price by today\'s standards for a typical 25-35mm miniature.

 

[Sturmhalo]

Yeah, you can\'t forget about all the costs involved in running a business. I think the problem that many of us have is that as with anything, there comes a point when the price being charged has covered its portion of the companies expenses, it also includes a good bit of profit, yet still a higher price is being asked.

For arguments sake let\'s say that a company has worked out that to cover their expenses they have to charge £1.00 per figure. Anything over that amount is going to be profit. So they could charge £2.00 per figure and make a nice little profit. But, they don\'t. They charge £4.00 per figure and make a huge profit! That is really what gets people\'s backs up.

Also, why do you poor sods in the US pay more for less than we do in the UK? I recently discovered that in the US, GW charge about $9 (£6) for two Tau Pathfinders, yet in the UK we get three for £6! (well, we did a couple of weeks ago unless they\'ve hiked the price up!). ???

As for all those other companies out there that charge similar amounts to GW, well, I believe that originally that state of affairs came about because they saw what GW were doing and followed suit. If they can get an extortionate amout for a figure then why not everyone else?! This can be really annoying at times, as some companies put out figures that are not too great let\'s say, and still think people are going to pay highly for them. Obviously you don\'t buy expensive crap, but it\'s still irritating that someone has the audacity to try and get away with it!

 

[Burzmali]

The GW stores must cost quite a bit. I know of no other Games company in the UK that can afford to open up a store just selling it\'s own games in most town and cities in the country and beyond.

Also they want to keep the sculptors and the artists happy and not leave and go to I-Kore or someone. But as Sturmhalo pointed out making more money could be a double edged sword...

The Perry Twins have set up their own miniature company - a precursor to their depature after all these years?
http://www.perry-miniatures.com/

 

[vincegamer]

Cheaper Minis

Ghost Miniatures sells some much cheaper minis.
I recently was placing a fairly big order with New Wave and decided to take a chance, for $5 what the heck, and bought the Wizards set sight unseen (they didn\'t have a photo). I needed a particular look in a wizard and I couldn\'t find it anywhere.

Well, the quality in just one set is pretty ranged. Some need a lot of help and some are excellent. Fortunately one of the excellent ones is perfect for what I was looking for!
I like what I\'ve seen on the web site, and I like most of what I bought so for around $1 each it\'s a bargain.

 

[Sturmhalo]

I don\'t think the Perry twins are going to be leaving GW Burzmali. For many years they worked for Foundry in its various guises whilst keeping up a full time work load with GW. A little while back they quit working for Foundry and that is why they\'ve got their own company now.

 

[wightzombie]

yah the perry twins wont leave as long as they have fun stuff to work on that fits thier profile. they really like working on historical minis aka empire, bretonia etc so they have thier own niche at GW. on the side they make historical models and always will prolly.

i wouldnt worry bout reaper at all. with great prices, a new line (warlord) that commands slightly higher prices, and next year the official reaper game coming out, as long as they keep making cool looking models theyll sell by the buttloads. i think within the past two years reaper has grown very well profit wise.

one of the things that i had a huge prob with is as burzmali pointed out is GW opening stores everywhere when there were stores everywhere who could distribute thier minis for them. they raised the minimum a store could order at once and forced many stores out of business. even some of the bigger stores dont care about GW and since i 1st discovered reaper at my local store, thier amount of reaper has literally grown x5 in just one year which is great. GW is forcing itself to maintain costs across the board to run these dum stores although they do get more profit because there iws no middle man or even end man so they might make a killing. the bad things is as solo stores go under because GW was say, half their revenue, the other half of thier revenue also kills many other mini companies whos products they cant sell.

one of the reasons sturm whyh i think stuff costs more here is having trouble manufacturiing it on time and keeping up. GW is constructing a multi million dollar fab facility here in the US to meet a high demand. maybe that will settle price.....

the one thing i liked about target games is they kept it real with prices at what GW should have. crappy sculpts half the time but eh, they were the last major company to have a line like that outside of GW. confrontation costs a bit, but there very small, trying to grow, trying to port thier game to US etc, so maybe in the future theyll come down a little. i think so far iKore has played it smart an safe and not gone under with a little boost from its celtos line.

 

[wightzombie]

the only thing that sucks about ghost minis is they make you buy five at a time, usually i only want 2 out of 5, so i pay 6 bucks for 2 minis, well then i might as well be buying reaper unless i really want a specific look. if they sold them singly at 1.50$ or 2$ they could see whats selling, discontinue the rest, and focus efforts on new or remade models. i mean i want about 20 minis from them but im not going to pay 100$ to get those 20 i like and have a bunch left over for the bitz box. a slight hsift on thier part and i really think they could move some of thier line.

 

[Sturmhalo]

There has never been a dedicated independent games store near where I live. Just a couple of places that stocked a small amount of models and RPG material, but they stopped doing that a long time ago. So mail order it is unless I want GW stuff.

I read about GW\'s nasty tactics back in the early 90\'s. Probably damaged their image for good in some gamers eyes.

 

[No Such Agency]

Sadly, the local \"non-GW\" gaming store here in Guelph, Ontaro recently went under. While the remaining store doesn\'t stock exclusively GW, they are close enough that they might as well (a few dozen Heavy Gear and Ral Partha blisters do not constitute supplier diversity!) On the other hand, it\'s not a bad store and the people are really nice.

I\'m rather annoyed by GW\'s online store, actually. They have lots of great bitz, figs and other stuff but shipping is $10 no matter what you order. I really wanted to get just one Tau sprue so I could paint up a few fire warriors but shipping would be as much as the product! Idiots. Basically it\'s the smaller scale purchasers subsidizing the big buyers\' shipping! (with a lot left over for GW I\'m sure)

 

[miniaturz]

Doomsday in Malaysia

When GW raised its prices a few years ago, it spelt the doom for tabletop gaming in Malaysia. I was then the Manager for the sole miniature retail company in Malaysia and we worked hard to promote the game. Just as we were getting successful, we were told by GW that we had to \"purchase\" misc miniatures which includes units which were rather unpopular thus unsellable here in Malaysia at increased prices if we still want to qualify for their retail discount. When we converted the rates, which were GBP 1-00 to Malaysia $ 5-50 and after games tax & shipping, it worked out to GBP 1-00 = Malaysia $ 8-00. This means the gamers in Malaysia are paying 8 times more than what UK gamers are paying. So, Warhammer became a game for the rich and wealthy in Malaysia and only the children of tycoons, Ministers and Royalties were able to afford to continue on.

One year after I left the company then, it closed down. Although I\'m not working there anymore, I am very sad because to some of us who are very dedicated to the hobby, it felt as if something valuable has died in our lives.

Nowadays, because of the bad past experience of not being able to afford to buy miniatures that I like, I have turned into a miniature hoarder ( just like a dragon hoards treasure ), laying my hands on any kind of miniature that I can get. Thankfully there\'s Ebay where you can still get some great deals at reasonable prices.

No doubt, GW\'s latest miniatures have improved a lot where quality is concerned, it however still doesn\'t justify the ridiculous pricing that it imposes on its faithful customers. Afterall, we are talking about mass production here which means there are massive cost savings for them. And when you think that plastic miniatures cost almost the same price as the metal ones , you could almost throw up.

But what\'s the point of complaining? For every one of us that decides enough is enough, there will be 10 other newbies who thinks that the GW prices are worth it. The only way we can bring the prices down is a mass boycott of GW miniatures - a well coordinated strike all over the world at the same time. Then maybe, just maybe we\'ll get one miniature for US$1.00 or GBP 1.00 again.

Who will be the hero?

 

[Chern Ann]

You sir, are a fruitcake

Seriously, there are so many alternatives out there. Reaper, Rackham, I-Kore etc etc.

I heard GW is going to open in Singapore soon, and the Thai GW scene is also quite good the last time I was up there.

 

[Chern Ann]

A bit of threadomancy due to the release of Age of Sigmar, but it's funny to think that 13 years ago GW was telling everyone not to worry about new revisions to either game. :disdain: