Wet palettes, future floor wax, flow-aid, and slow-dry retarder.

PTS

New member
Hey all,

I\'ve been painting minis for almost 20 years, off and on. Up until now using the GW range of paints, decent brushes, and tap water. I\'ve been recently become tired of the niggling problems with a basic set up, such as the paint drying on the palette too fast, brush strokes appearing on the paintjob, and ink washes leaving rings.

So I wanna go shopping tomorrow to gather the ingredients for a more \"pro\" setup.

First up, I\'ve heard many great things about Future floor wax and its great ink properties when mixed in with the water / paint. And from the Liquidex range, Flow-Aid for smooth application, and Slow-Dri for giving the paint a longer life on the palette for blending and such. Can any of you guys give tips on how to use these three products effectively? (ratio with water and paint, application, etc)

Lastly, I think I\'ll check out the wet palettes the art store has for sale. I\'ve attempted to make one recently with water soaked sponge, sandwich box, and parchment paper. It worked okay, with the paint lasting longer then usual. The parchment paper does seem completely waterproof though (wax paper is even worse) and I\'m wondering if it\'s just the cold temperature of the palette that\'s making the paint last??

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Paul S.
 

raginggaijin

New member
I don\'t use Future Floor Wax because I lick my brushes. :)

I use Slo-Dri and Flow-Aid. For any painting, I always apply one drop of Slo-Dri per 1 drop of paint. My ratio for painting is 1 drop paint, 1 drop Slo-Dri, 1 drop of water. (This provides me with paint that is the consistency of skim milk.) I use Vallejo Game Color though, and I usually use 1 to 2 more drops of water to thin my GW paints. (I still have a set I use as well.)

I use Flow-Aid for shading. I add 1 part Flow-Aid to the above mixture, as well as 1 drop of Glaze Medium. The Glaze Medium has binders to keep the paint from dispersing too much, while the Flow-Aid allows me to use paint as inks for shading. However, I haven\'t been using this lately due to the nature of Vallejo paints. It was very handy with GW paints, but not so much with my Game Color paints.

For my palette I use a sponge from the blister packs. This retains the paint, water, etc. while assisting in retarding drying.

On my miniatures page I have a video on blending that has a shot of me mixing my paint, up close and personal. You see each drop and I explain exactly how I do it. It is in Real Player format due to codec, and I am realizing I need to get off my ass and post it in Quicktime. :yes:

Hope this helped!
 

freakinacage

Well-known member
floor wax is pretty good and as i understand it, acts as a flow-aid and acrylic medium. it is, however, very glossy so you will need some serious matte varnish (dullcote) to stop it. you need very little and pre mix it with water in an appropriate container (jam jar etc). about 25% or maybe a little less f.w. added to the water

never used liquitex flo-aid but have used windsor and newton which is really nice

have only used retarder a few times. my only advice that i can offer is don\'t use too much. over a certain level and the paint won\'t dry (my bottle says how much).

i wouldn\'t bother buying a pallette. the paper they use is the same as the non-waxed baking paper, just 4 times the price! all you need is a shallow tray/plate, some parchment and some tissue. dump a load of tissue (anything absorbant will do - toilet roll/tissues/kitchen roll) and chuck a load of water on top. you need to make sure you saturate it though (which it sounds as if you weren\'t doing). then pop the parchment on top. if you want to keep it wet for longer, you can use a sealable tub rather than a simple tray. but it goes mouldy after a few days. i find ionised water (the stuff they use for ironing and car batteries) makes it last longer

hope this helps
 

raginggaijin

New member
One additive you can use is a Matte Medium, also available at your art store. I use this when I need to \'thicken\' my paint a bit, (I thinned it to much), and when I use inks and paints that I want to appear in a matte finish.

One drop will do ya. ;)
 

freakinacage

Well-known member
bought some of that the other day but haven\'t used it in conjunction with the floor wax yet. looks great otherwise though
 

Tinweasel

Member
I\'ve been using Future Floor Finish and Liquitex Slow-Dri as additives to my paint for close to two years now, ever since getting back into miniature painting from a 14-year or so break. You do realize that buying an additional flow improver on top of Future Floor Finish is a waste of money, because that\'s essentially what the FFF already does for you? It decreases the surface tension of your paint, essentially a cheap acrylic sealant/surfactant in quarter-gallon jugs for about $5 each. Being essentially clear liquid acrylic, you likely don\'t need a glaze medium either as that\'s what the FFF does as well - an acrylic substitute in your thinner that dilutes your paint without overly affecting the pigment. (Although granted, glaze medium usually has more of a matte finish.)

I use two mixtures for thinning my paints: one is is roughly one part FFF, one part Slow-Dri, and 2 parts distilled water - I use this as a general general purpose paint thinner, from adding in small amounts to make for smoother basecoats to adding in concentrations of 1 part paint to 15-20+ parts thinner for glazes or staining washes; my other thinner mixture is generally 1 part FFF and 4 parts distilled water or thereabouts - I use this strictly for thinning for washes and the like. Essentially the FFF acts as a flow improver and the reason I don\'t include my usual Slow-Dri is that it acts as a thickening agent, much like adding PVA glue to paint does.

Yes, stuff I paint using FFF to cut my paints dries semi-glossy to outright glossy, depending on how much I\'ve used washes or glazes (the more FFF, the more shine, in other words). I figger the tradeoff is that since I\'m directly adding an acrylic floor sealant to my paints that dries to a solid finish, they\'re less likely to chip and flake - it\'s not the paint that generally comes off if I accidentally drop a miniature, it\'s the miniature itself that occasionally comes unglued/unpinned and explodes into its component parts.

Not really much to say about Slow-Dri other than you probably don\'t want to use it in concentrations greater than 20%, as it binds things up a bit too much and causes paint to thicken (again, much like PVA glue). I\'ve also found that when used in my usual purpose thinner with certain paints or chemicals (Tamiya Glosses, for example, or anything acidic) it gets very thick and gluey, so if I\'m using Inks for glazing I generally just stick with my FFF/water thinning mixture.

So far as using a wet palette, I don\'t - just a simply multi-well watercolor daisy-wheel artist\'s palette. The amount of low-Dri in my general use thinner keeps paint alive for roughly a half hour at a 1:1 paint/thinner ratio. If I\'m doing layering or something with a higher concentration of thinner then we\'re talking 45 mins. to an hour, but I\'ve found I can keep paint thinned \"indefinitely\" if I periodically add a drop or two of thinner every once in a while and keep the mixture stirred to compensate for evaporation.


That\'s not to say I couldn\'t use a wet palette - something sponge-like saturated (but not soaked) with water and a single layer of baking paper across the top. You want baking paper as opposed to \"palette paper\" (as mentioned above) because a) it\'s cheaper and b) can be had in larger quantities. The whole point of a wet palette is that you have a semi-permeable barrier between the paint and a moderate supply of water - the baking paper allows the water through to keep the paint moistened, but at a gradual rate compared to other materials. Wax paper doesn\'t work because it\'s impermeable and regular paper, well, just gets soaked. I\'m to understand if you use a covered, sealable container and purified/distrilled water as the basis for your wet palette, you can keep the paint useable for literally days. The downside of a wet palette is that it automatically adds a little extra thinness to the paint concentration which you need to compensate for as compared to a standard tile or plastic palette. Personally, I again prefer something with wells as I\'ve used concentrations of like 1:30 paint/thinner for tinting and such and that just wouldn\'t work on a flat palette (and I find my ultra-thinned paint stays liquid even overnight, besides). Run with your own personal preference and need, obviously!

I\'d recommend something cheap like baby food jars to store your thinners, clean water, etc. - a little smaller than jam jars and quite a bit cheaper (what, $0.75 for a larger size one?) Even if you use \'em for a while and get a buildup of sedimented paint on the bottom, being glass they wash right out good as new (and did I mention they\'re cheap?)

I also use graduated medication syringes for measuring out my paints and mixtures, and have a whole system of ratios for concentration of additives and paint and such, but that\'s a different essay in itself. 8^) And really, it\'s whatever works for you as a painter, when it comes down to it.

P.S. I think people use the names interchangeably, but you really do want Future Floor Finish as opposed to Future Floor Wax, assuming there is an actual \"Wax\" variety made by S.C. Johnson & Co. (I don\'t believe there is, but still...) For those of you overseas, the stuff also goes by the name of Klear, Krystal Klear, Pronto Wax, Sols Plus, Vloer Plus, Johnson\'s Wipe and Shine, Johnson\'s One and All, GloCot, etc. If it\'s made by Johnson\'s and it\'s an acrylic floor finish, odds are pretty good it\'s the same stuff.
 

Einion

New member
Originally posted by PTS
I\'ve been painting minis for almost 20 years, off and on. Up until now using the GW range of paints, decent brushes, and tap water. I\'ve been recently become tired of the niggling problems with a basic set up, such as the paint drying on the palette too fast, brush strokes appearing on the paintjob, and ink washes leaving rings.

So I wanna go shopping tomorrow to gather the ingredients for a more \"pro\" setup.
FWIW I think there\'s no question you\'ll find things better, or just easier/less hassle, with some of the changes you\'re moving towards.

IMO the wet palette - homemade or bought - is the thing that might make the most difference overall. I resisted buying one for years (eventually made my own) because I\'d learned to use acrylics without one, in a very humid environment, and developed all the habits necessary to deal with them during long painting sessions I thought there were no point in changing my established procedures. But boy was I wrong.

With regard to Future, do you paint armies or single figs?

About the Slow-Dri, do you now blend much or intend to try it? Because IMO the wet palette will deal with the issue of drying on the palette, so there\'s no point in using any unless it\'s specifically for the application side of things.
Originally posted by PTS
The parchment paper does seem completely waterproof though (wax paper is even worse) and I\'m wondering if it\'s just the cold temperature of the palette that\'s making the paint last??
No, I\'m pretty sure that wouldn\'t be nearly enough. If the paper were totally water-resistant the paint would dry at close to the same speed as on a plastic palette or ceramic tile. If you\'re getting hours of exposure to air without drying it must be working the right way, simple as that.


Originally posted by raginggaijin
I don\'t use Future Floor Wax because I lick my brushes. :)
Yep, that\'d do it! Yeuch.


Originally posted by freakinacage
floor wax is pretty good and as i understand it, acts as a flow-aid and acrylic medium. it is, however, very glossy so you will need some serious matte varnish (dullcote) to stop it.
Or mixing in something like Tamiya matting agent to counteract.

Einion
 

freakinacage

Well-known member
Originally posted by Tinweasel
P.S. I think people use the names interchangeably, but you really do want Future Floor Finish as opposed to Future Floor Wax, assuming there is an actual \"Wax\" variety made by S.C. Johnson & Co. (I don\'t believe there is, but still...) For those of you overseas, the stuff also goes by the name of Klear, Krystal Klear, Pronto Wax, Sols Plus, Vloer Plus, Johnson\'s Wipe and Shine, Johnson\'s One and All, GloCot, etc. If it\'s made by Johnson\'s and it\'s an acrylic floor finish, odds are pretty good it\'s the same stuff.

yeah klear in the uk. took me ages to find that out. it\'s an acrylic non-wax floor wax. go figure
 
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