Wet pallet issue - proper care?

[demonherald]

mould get\'s everywhere unavoidable I stick to blotting paper for my bottom laye and just dispose when needed... if I need to keep colur workable for any real length of time.. large project etc .. I put the paper and reservoir material in a seal up freezer bag and either bang it in the fridge or I\'ve even been known to stick it in the freezer..

Part of my sit down to paint routine is to clean out the tray anyways so mould is generally kept at bay....

I also am pretty anal about my used papers... I tend to use one A4 sheet per project often more but each project has a seperate sheet. and if I have a particular pleasing colour scheme result I dry the paper out and keep it with notes on the colours.. got about 40 or so of the buggers... and sometimes when I\'m stuck for a colour I just have a flick through em and inspiration often strikes......

I also have several top layer papers .. differinggrades of parchment , greaseproof and trace papers .. I find different ones work well with diferent colours or mediums....

 

[freakinacage]

i would NEVER pay for a wet palette. as has been outlines, some sort of tray (clean meat tray/olf plate work fine) either some sponge or kitchen roll etc and parchment. does EXACTLY the same as the expensive ones. you can also make minis ones from blister pack so you can keep your colours separate (these can be stacked and the lids keep the paint fresh - put a small amount of washing up liquid to prevent mould)

 

[Einion]

@Gilvan Blight, I\'m running a quick test at the moment to see how the paint does in an unsealed DIY wet palette, the lid just put loosely into place.

So far it\'s been one day and the paint is mostly fine (thinner, brush-mixed bits are drying out but that can happen even if the palette is sealed). I\'ll post back with updates on how the paint is doing.

This should give an idea on how any similar setup should work without a fitting lid, assuming the reservoir is kept moist and the palette paper has the right kind of properties.

Einion

 

[QuietiManes]

RE: pennies - the governments of most countries change the metals used in their coins on a regular basis. In the US for example, there\'s pennies from a couple years that are a hair heavier than quarters. Anyway, pennies probably work if you use a penny made in a year that they used the right metal to make the penny in the first place. Whatever that metal might be. So that might be a problem if it works for some and not for others.

RE: the paper lifting up - I\'ve never really had that problem when using the baking parchment off a roll. The corners dry out and curl up all the time though, just need to keep them wet...or sewing pin them down! That\'ll teach \'em.

RE: making your own palette - um, why do people freak out about how expensive they are and how cheap it is to make your own? It\'s an illusion. The masterson handy palette is only $10 CAD, it comes with the sponge and several parchment papers to start you off. The P3 palette is only $15 US in that ebay link above, I assume it comes with sponge and paper as well. Using paper towel and baking parchment is not free, you have to pay for it. Paper towel will need to be replaced ALOT more often than a sponge, potentially losing you money in the long run, not likely in practice I guess. Old meat styrofoam trays are free, almost, you have to pay for the soap to wash them and your time is valuable too, BUT there\'s no lid, plastic wrap has a cost if you use that as a lid. Food storage containers are not free, they\'re a couple dollars for the sandwich ones here in Canada, a dollar at the dollar store for cheap crappy ones that would do the job fairly well but I wouldn\'t start tossing it around in my backpack or anything. If you have all the stuff in your kitchen, you still paid for if and will need to pay for it again to replace what you use in the palette, right?

I don\'t know what my point is, I guess I\'m just curious why it seems so many people want to go for the \"free or cheap\" version when in reality, the difference is, at best, a couple dollars (at least here...comparing the smaller commercial palettes to the even smaller home made variety).

I\'ve got 3 of the masterson handy palettes and several home made varieties. I only ever use one of the mastersons, some day, when I paint all day long and have several projects on the go, I\'ll be able to have my paint mixes all seperate and ready to go though.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by QuietiManes
RE: pennies - the governments of most countries change the metals used in their coins on a regular basis. In the US for example, there\'s pennies from a couple years that are a hair heavier than quarters. Anyway, pennies probably work if you use a penny made in a year that they used the right metal to make the penny in the first place. Whatever that metal might be. So that might be a problem if it works for some and not for others.

Good to know.

Originally posted by QuietiManes
I don\'t know what my point is...

Yeah, we got that

The list price for the Masterson Handy Palette is $10.95.
Membrane paper, 30 sheets for $4.25.
Sponges, pack of 3, $7.50.

Prices are about double that for the larger one. Are double that if you want two on the go at one time

They\'re more expensive this side of the pond.

There\'s no comparison in price on the consumables. Even if you went with expensive tracing vellum as the membrane paper it\'ll still work out less.

One of the points of the DIY type is that someone may already have all the fixings, so they can make one up right that second if they want to test the principle out. As far as the reservoir and membrane paper go, just a few cents each time.

Originally posted by QuietiManes
Old meat styrofoam trays are free, almost, you have to pay for the soap to wash them and your time is valuable too, BUT there\'s no lid, plastic wrap has a cost if you use that as a lid.

Oh come on, that\'s just silly.

How about factoring in the cost of gas to drive to an art-materials shop to buy the commercial type? Or the P&P if ordering online? Both of those are real costs, and significantly more than the pennies for the dishwashing soap

Einion

 

[Einion]

For comparison: I made up my three palettes for less than the cost of the one available at the time - the original, D-R Stay-Wet Palette - which runs to something like $40 Canadian.*

Would have cost me about a hundred bucks to go the commercial route; maybe $20 making them up at home. That $80 or so that I saved is no illusion

Einion

*Way too large for my desk anyway lol

 

[lahatiel]

I haven\'t done too much with my (homemade) wet pallette recently -- lack of painting plus no need on the speed job I did manage to do recently. In the past, though, I seem to recall having some success with the corner-curling issue by wetting baking paper, putting it on the paper towels in my reservoir and waiting a couple minutes for the slight curling to start... then flipping the parchment over. Now it was ready to use and the curling wasn\'t an issue any longer.

 

[Gilvan Blight]

The safety pin comment was another Doh! moment for me. That makes perfect sense.

I\'m starting to wonder if maybe I have the wrong paper.

I took my dremel to the lid to get rid of the ribs I mentioned above and now it seals nice and tight. But I\'m still having a problem with paint drying out. Heck the paint drys out while I am using it. No where near as quick as a traditional pallet (which is why I keep using this one) but it\'s still drying out way quicker then a day or two.

Part of the problem seems to be keeping the paper in contact with the sponge. It lifts up. The pin idea may work for me, but I\'m still wondering why I am having the problem in the first place. The way everyone else it talking it sounds like their paper sticks to the sponge fine and only curls at the corners.

If I ever think of it when at home I will take a picture and maybe someone can let me know where I am messing up.

FYI: touch of dish soap on the sponge seems to be keeping any mold at bay so far.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by Gilvan Blight
I\'m starting to wonder if maybe I have the wrong paper.

That\'s why I\'m running the test for you, to see what could be expected at average humidity without a tight seal.

Day two, paint\'s fine. Some of it is wetter than when it went in (as is typical during storage) and the thinner bits are still a little workable.

Originally posted by Gilvan Blight
Part of the problem seems to be keeping the paper in contact with the sponge. It lifts up. The pin idea may work for me, but I\'m still wondering why I am having the problem in the first place. The way everyone else it talking it sounds like their paper sticks to the sponge fine and only curls at the corners.

Another \"Doh!\" moment for you on that front I think - curl the paper yourself (run it over the edge of the desk, or under a steel rule) and then put it in the opposite way

Einion

 

[Gilvan Blight]

That one I did try and it didn\'t seem to help enough. It did make a bit of a difference but not enough of one.

What I am doing now is cutting the paper bigger and actually wrapping it around the sponge. That seems way better then any previous attempts but I still get dry spots.

Edit: just thought of something else that could be a factor. How much paint to people put on their pallet at once? I put very little at a time, maybe 3 drops at the most with an average of 1.5. Once mixed (with other paints, future and/or water) the paint is very thin and doesn\'t last very long. For a doing a large area of colour I will go with 3 drops of the original colour, and add drops of whatever highlight colour near it (one at a time), and make my blends in the middle. Still the largest \'pile\' of paint is about 3 drops.

 

[QuietiManes]

How about factoring in the cost of gas to drive to an art-materials shop to buy the commercial type? Or the P&P if ordering online? Both of those are real costs, and significantly more than the pennies for the dishwashing soap

Oh yeah? Well lets add the cost of the extra food you\'ll need to eat to replenish the energy you expend washing the foam tray and the cost of hot or cold water (even if you don\'t pay for water where you live you pay taxes to the government so they can supply you with water) used to wash and the health risks of increased exposure to soap and and and...that\'s all I got for now. Oh, plus, my kung fu master can beat up your kung fu master!

^^This is mean in good humour, in case it isn\'t clear. :bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:

My point was only that it\'s a far cry from being as cheap as most people think. Especially when you factor in that you are comparing a 4\" x 4\" home made palette to a 16\" x 12\" store bought one (give or take a few inches of \"substantially larger\" here and there, they\'re up to at least 18x24 by memory). 12 4x4\'s fit in one 12x16, right, so $40 / 12 = $3.33? That\'s cheap for a store bought! :FLAME ON!!!:

Plus, Michaels has their flyers every weekend pretty much, with a %40 off any item in the store coupon. They\'re piled at the door to the store so you don\'t need to farming in the local print media to get one, if you\'re unfamiliar. So you can get the Masterson Handy Palette for like $7.45 including taxes (which comes with the sponge and papers, as mentioned, so that\'s not an additional cost either). I\'m still using the sponge I got with my first one a few years ago. But alas...dead horse, consider yourself tenderized!

As for the paper drying out. How thick is the sponge you\'re using? How much water are you leaving in the container? Try a thinner sponge (anything over 1/8th to 1/4\" is not helping you) and keep it as wet as possible, I.E. don\'t ring it out at all, leave at least a little bit of a puddle. Also, is there huge air bubbles in the sponge? That would leave dry spaces, perhaps a tighter air pocket type sponge is in order? The more paint and water on top of the palette the better it works, smaller bits do tend to dry up from what I\'ve seen in my own and others experience. Don\'t know why, don\'t know how. Not sure how thin you do your paint but a couple (2) drops of paint and a few (6+) drops of water should make a nice big puddle, enough to stay wet wet wet. Well, depending on how big your drops are! Now that I think about it, that could vary quite a bit. OOOooo...and how much of the sponge is exposed around the sides? If it\'s not right up against the container, it\'s going to dry out and be a major problem.

Anyway, g\'luck. Wet palettes are well worth the effort getting this all sorted out, IMO.

I\'m interested to see how Einions test turns out, as well.

Cheers \'n\' :beer:

 

[Gilvan Blight]

The sponges I have started very thin. About 3mm, then you add water and it got to be about 1/2\" once wet. I had no clue how big it was going to end up but liked the fact that I got something like 10 thin sheets for under $5 and they are easy to store as they start so thin.

As for keeping it wet. What I usually do is soak the thing, then tip it so any \'loose\' water runs off. I don\'t squese the sponge, just let gravity work. Maybe I should just leave the water in there?

Air bubbles - not that big that I have noticed. Looks like a normal sponge. I bought some baking paper while getting groceries last night and I will see if that works better on my next mini.

Stupidly I took some pics of a mini last night, right at my painting table and didn\'t think to snap a pic of my pallet.

I bought everythign at Michael\'s and just checked their webpage, but can\'t find anything using their search (not even \"pallet\").

The sponge is basically this, but some other brand:

This is the pallet I use. I cut off those ribs in the top though as they touched the parchment paper when closed:

I don\'t see the paper I am using specifically online. It\'s sheets of about 4\"x4\" that I cut down to fit the pallet.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by QuietiManes
Oh yeah? Well lets add the cost of the extra food you\'ll need to eat to replenish the energy you expend washing the foam tray...

lol

Einion

 

[QuietiManes]

There is alot of differences in various companies products, even between the ones that work well enough, like how long before they break down or tear. Maybe you picked something up that resists water, doesn\'t hold water, doesn\'t pass water, releases water too fast, who knows, intentionally or not (as in designed by the company I mean). Hopefully the roll you have now will work like a charm.

Another thing I just thought of, is there a fan or vent or heater or breezy open window or just a high recycle/exchange rate of air in your paint area? As long as the sponge is still drippy (I.E. more wet than the paint on the palette) it \"should\" be fine, I think.

 

[Gilvan Blight]

ARGH the gods do not want me to get a picture of my pallet. I finally opened this thread at home. Remembered I wanted to get a picture, grabbed the camera, rushed down to get my picture, turned the camera on.....

And watche the low battery screen show up as the Camera shut off.

If I remember in about an hour (which I probably won\'t as there is a bottle of Chimay Red calling my name) I will finally take pictures.

 

[Gilvan Blight]

Okay here we go:

Pallet with paper after use yesterday and closed for the night. Not a perfect picture but you can see where the paper is no longer touching the sponge near the top.

Sponge close up so you can see air bubbles and the thickness:

Sponge Before picture, what it looks like before I cut it and add water.

And lastly the paper. I didn\'t remember at the time, but now looking it\'s a brand that I really shouldn\'t have any problems with:

So any suggestions based on this setup?

 

[DarkStar]

Are you conditioning your paper and sponge first? With those \'official\' papers you are directed to soak them through and through in hot water for a time to activate them. This gets the paper ready for the capillary actions of getting water up through the sponge. I\'ve always done that when I used the windsor and newton papers.

Without that step you\'ll not get the full effect.

 

[ScottRadom]

Where the hell did you hear that bit about soakimg the paper for the WN rig? I\'m not arguing, but I\'ve never heard that. I\'ll have to give it a shot.

 

[DarkStar]

Originally posted by ScottRadom
Where the hell did you hear that bit about soakimg the paper for the WN rig? I\'m not arguing, but I\'ve never heard that. I\'ll have to give it a shot.

On the instructions the maker included for the wet palette. Not on the refill packs, on the actual wet palette instructions.

Here are quotes from various makes:

Sta-wet:

\" How it works: The dampened sponge and special permeable acrylic palette paper provide paint a constant source of moisture. Paints won\'t dry out. Just soak the palette liner and sponge in water until each is fully saturated. Place sponge in tray and lay palette liner on it; wipe off excess water from liner and put your paints on the wet liner.\"

From Chroma Colour:

\"For ChromaColour and traditional acrylics, soak a sheet of the appropriate membrane in water for between 30-45 minutes. Saturate the sponge with water and place it in the tray, place the wet membrane on top of the wet sponge and wipe off the excess water with a paper towel. Apply paint.

Mine is a different make and I\'ve long since thrown away the box it came in (a huge model) but the instructions were the same, to saturate for a time the paper provided to allow it to work properly. I\'ve always done this, for years, in hot water before sitting down and using it.

A quick google on \"wet palette instructions\" will return typical user results like this as well, here:

\"If you have time... if you are using a refill package and soak in very hot water for about 15 minutes.\"

That sort of thing. So Gilvan try that first, I don\'t have that problem you\'re experiencing and I use those exact same palette papers when I feel a need to reach for \"the good stuff\" instead of my cheap bakers parchment.

quick edit: I dont\' nearly soak mine in hot water for all that time, just hold it there in a colander for a minute or so. But I don\'t use a wet palette over the course of days, but for one sitting mostly.

 

[ScottRadom]

Sweet sufferin\' Christ! Wish I would\'ve seen that! Thanks Dark Star! I\'ll try that. I had been having decent success but not the long life the thing sort of implied I would get.

TY!