What drives painting success?

[EricJ]

Ok, so I\'ve of course been looking through all the CCV entries, and been poking around on some other mini sites as well, and I\'ve actually been a touch underwhelmed. CCV does have a ton of good minis, but only a small handfull of great ones, which is what I\'ve seen on other sites as well. Compaired to what we\'ve seen posted on cmon just in this last week from forum goers (example anders, donga, joshua, shawn, tidoco to start) I personally see a big difference.

So this got me thinking why?! At first I thought perhaps it was our supportive environment, but ruled that out, as many other forums have a similar chemistry. I think it must be the inherent built in competitive nature of this site (with all the good and bad - sniping included). Here\'s my thinking:

When you have a forum where minis are not ranked and you go off nothing but feedback, the goal in your miniatures is to not have glaring errors, not have something to inspire negative feedback. Which seems to develop basic skills, but doesn\'t seem to inspire risk taking, or pushing ones self, and doesn\'t help to develop that sense of what creates the wow factor.

When you have a situation where there is a numerical ranking, average, \"safe\" miniatures won\'t ever get you anywhere, all the nice feedback in the world won\'t make you happy with another 6 score if you set your sights on higher. To improve you can\'t stay safe, and instead of focusing on avoiding negative feedback, the focus is in creating that wow factor in possitive feedback. And that means pushing yourself and trying new \"dangerous\" things.

In CCV I\'ve noticed some entries from cmoners and imo are a few of those that that do have that wow factor for me in the competition.

So the question is...am I making any sense here? Is this something real or is it simply that I\'ve noticed minis from friends and due to that, subconciously see them as better just from my personal attachment to the artist?

That was my rambling thought for the day

-Eric

 

[Malfoy]

I do kinda see your point- there are many, many good entries, but not many that would potentially make a weekly top 10 here. I think I need to understand your concept of the \"wow\" factor though. What entries are wow-ing you?

In general, I would say that it isn\'t this site per se, but the idea that a lot of great painters frequent this site- making it THE showcase for miniature painting. Does that make sense? CMON is sort of an \"industry\" standard for online venues.

 

[Drake Farstrider]

Hmm, good question Eric.

I guess what drives me is that I don\'t want to be just another average painter. I want to be able to have my peers, use my miniatures as insperation. Will that happen? I can only hope and keep improving.

In the year that I have lurked around this site, posting on the forum\'s, voting on mini\'s, reading articles and listening to the advice of the forum denizens . I belive that I have improved in this time. That being said I still have room for improvement.

Maybe humility helps drive us on to have those 9+ miniatures. We all remember our 1st miniature painted and how proud we were at the time.

Jeremy

Edit: Eeeeeeeee, This was my 500th post. I am now a senior member!

:flip::bouncy::flip:

 

[vincegamer]

I think a large factor is time and I just don\'t have the time or desire to spend more than 10 hours on a mini, thus I\'m sure you were not wowed by my entries. I liked them though.

I would have to ask how you browse CMON though.
Many people look at the top ten last 7 days. Of course if you are self-selecting for the best stuff, or even for stuff of artists you admire, you will skew your view of this site. There is much here that has no \"wow\" factor either.
Personally I like to view the bottom stuff. I try to comment on the lower stuff and have often complained that there is no \"worst 10 L7D\".

As to CMONers at CCV, well, there is only one I would venture to guess who did it (maybe 2 but I\'d be going on a limb). If you are so sure of who did what, then I suspect you are spending more time on certain artists and thus not noticing the large number of adequate artists on CMON.

In short, I don\'t agree with your premise that this site has more hot stuff than any other site.
(now if the bean counters want to pull up the statistics I\'d be happy to be proven wrong)

 

[Valander]

Damn, Jeremy, you caught up to me really quick! Congrats on Senior!

(cue Trevor)

Anyway, back on topic, as for what \"drives\" me in painting I would have to say that a big part of that was seeing stuff on the \'net (including this site especially, but many others as well) that was painted far above what I\'d ever seen in a game store.

Basically, I didn\'t really make a connection between \"art\" and mini-painting until I saw stuff from the likes of Bobby Wong, Jen Haley, Thierry Husser, Alan C, and many others. And it wasn\'t the technical skills that kicked me in the pants (though there\'s no denying they\'re there!), but the impression that the models gave. I used to do oil painting and other kinds of 2d art, and always went for that artistic impression thing; just never really thought to do it on minis. I was far more concerned with getting the damn things painted quickly enough so that I could play.

This need to bring out an emotional reaction from my minis has definitely led to pushing my skills, both creatively and technically. The stuff I\'ve done recently is just amazing in comparison to stuff I did just a couple of years ago (which, not to toot my own horn, but had won a couple of smaller competitions at cons).

Basically, for me the drive is this: I want to create something unique and evoke some kind of reaction with it. I don\'t just want to slap paint on the models and be done with it to get on to rolling dice anymore (well, most of the time ).

 

[Klute]

What drives me is the insane desire to please you lot.It kills me now to get a sub 8 mini (stupid I know),and it makes me feel like Im doing things wrong.
Ive learned to take it now though and just get on with the next hoping to do better.
I also find it very competative around my peers and strive to get better to be more respected by them.

Cant wait for the second wave of Sacred Blade minis to come out (very soon BTW).Tim (Tidoco2222) is joining me in painting for them and I think the friendly \"rivalry\" will be great for our painting skill progress.

 

[EricJ]

I guess to make my long question short, do you think there is a difference in quantitative vs. qualitative feedback on your work? And how it helps you?

But I think I\'m a lot like you Klute, I feel like I\'m letting people down if I\'m not upping my game every mini (it\'s sort of like I\'m competing with myself). And of course it is the fact we have a quantitative means of measuring this that I have a way to judge this.

(And Klute I can\'t wait to see you and tim\'s work on the new sacred blade stuff, that\'ll be fun to watch!)

 

[ZaPhOd]

I think CMoN is a great source of inspiration, but I would hardly say that it is THE place to go to see inspiring work. CMoN has become the marketing tool of the painter. Either for companies to sell minis, or painters to sell minis. Naturally, you will see lots of flash and dash.
I don\'t think equating a score has any meaning. You are correct about the forum, and the closeness to other painters. I have seen and felt that often, and as one wave of CMoN users passes by, a new group takes over... But then each forum had a niche of folks.

All that being said, the thing that drives me is that I want ot actually produce a unique piece of art each mini. If I do a quick job, or somethign for a quick buck, I have no desire to show it off, apart from actually selling it. If i do a stand up piece however, then I know that the person getting it (or myself if I\'m keeping it) will be happy, others will draw inspiration from it, and my job is done.

I see things here, and obviously a zillion other places on the net and in real life that drive me to do better. I know I can paint anything that I see if I put my mind to it and practice. That is what it all comes down to.

 

[Klute]

\"fun to watch\"

for you maybe


Well put Glyn.
Im just glad that the commissions I do ,I am able to take my time on and do the best possible job,cos I dont get much painting time.As I said in another thread I couldn\'t handle tight deadlines and demanding customers.It would spoil the fun of it.And like you I like to think Im creating a piece of art not just slapping paint on lead.I like to do something original,not previousely done on the same mini.

 

[Trevor]

I think you are at least partially right Eric. At least for me before I came here I was considered a great painter, I would regularly win local painting comps. Then I found CMON, and my \"great\" minis were only scoring 6-7. Some might find that discouraging, but I was looking at Goatman et al. stuff and could see just how much better they were. That really inspired me to lift my game.

The other thing that did that was to go to GD. The first year I entered I was just amazed by soem of the entries. That also prompted me to raise my game.

So that was a long winded way of saying, yes, I agree competition does act to raise standards.

As an example, my ranking has been in the 180-210 range for the last couple of years, but my average score has gone from around 8.2 to 8.7, so there is a pressure there to continuously improve, just to maintain your ranking.

 

[douglasgreen]

For me,as nobody else sees my mini\'s(no painters anyway)it\'s the simple pleasure of seeing that gradual improvement of technique,simple really!I will say a competetive environ helps though,seeing various new techniques,fads and patterns gives me nuff to practice on instead of stagnating

 

[Shadzar]

i aspire to be average. and am GLAD i jumped from 2187 to whatever is says down there in my sig now.

i am driven by the want to better my skills. i have loved modelling for 25 years (come the end of april), since i was 5, when i got model airplane that snapped together and was already painted/colored.

from then i moved onto glueing required. and then after 10 more years (in 1990) i started painting minis for dungeons and dragons games.

i like a lot of work out there, but will never so things like the samuri i have seen that looks real life. as i do not want to have things look so close to natural.

but i AM driven to better my talents in the effort to make my minis look more closley to the picture i see in my head when i decide how i want them to look before i start painting them.

not that any of that makes more difference either way to the decent and GOOD painters around here. at least it is what pushes me forward.

and i will never spend even 10 hours on a mini, cause i have several thousand that need painting. and i want to get them all done prior to my end. even if they are shite to look at. lol (well except for my Drizzt Do\'Urden which will probably remain pristine, and maybe my EverQuest paladin from the collectors set.)

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by ZaPhOd
I have seen and felt that often, and as one wave of CMoN users passes by, a new group takes over... But then each forum had a niche of folks.

Anyone else feel like a group hug?

 

[Shadzar]

Originally posted by vincegamer
Anyone else feel like a group hug?

EEW~! :|~

 

[wiccanpony]

Originally posted by vincegamer

Originally posted by ZaPhOd
I have seen and felt that often, and as one wave of CMoN users passes by, a new group takes over... But then each forum had a niche of folks.

Anyone else feel like a group hug?

:bouncy: ME! ME!

For me it\'s a fun and easy hobby and with all the good examples here on CMON, I have something to compare too and push myself to do better.


now where\'s my Damn! Hug!!!!

 

[provoke_me]

my inspiration and drive

YOU GUYS!

*big hug*

 

[RedDawn]

You all inspire me

Actually I haven\'t even started painting yet so I can\'t talk about being successful or not. But my hubby has tried to get me painting for years and it was because he\'d developed friendships with CMoNers that I joined this forum. Now, after \"talking\" to everyone and seeing all the minis I\'ve been inspired to actually pick up a paint brush. I have ideas in my head that I need to create and I\'ve actually been dreaming about minis I want to do (weird , huh!).

Anyway, I know that the rankings and competition play their part in trying to better one\'s painting - I\'ve seen it in Grumb. And it\'s not because he wants to be better than everyone else - he just wants the respect and admiration of his peers - all of you.


EDIT: Sorry forgot - *BIG HUG* to everyone!

@Drake - CONGRATULATIONS on the Senior Member status!!

 

[Drake Farstrider]

@ Valander & RedDawn, Thanks.

Now if I could just get off my ass and finish 4 more mini\'s, then I might have an official ranking. Need to take pictures of them too.

 

[wereweevil]

Well, I firmly believe that the fact that I am putting my work on display for open criticism and \'grading\' simply makes me more selective of what I display.
It , in itself, does not drive me to achieve higher scores.
*However*
I certainly believe that the quality of the top painters on this site, as well as the fact that there is such a diverse range of miniatures on display, and painted in varying styles/methods *Does* drive me to try new things and improve my technique. It also has had the wonderful effect of allowing me to remove the \"GW Only\" shackles I had been manacled to for so many years.
So I agree it makes me explore new boundaries and try to improve, but not for the reasons you might think.
A good example of this are some Rackham mid-nor dwarves I bought, simply to try the Rackham style of painting! How many times have you ever bought a mini outside your normal scope of figures simply because you wanted to try a new painting technique?

 

[sniffles]

I find it really interesting that so many people seem to place so much emphasis on their ranking here. Voting is so subjective. Just looking at my own voting record, I wouldn\'t use me to judge anyone\'s talent. For example, I never vote on space marines. I don\'t like them. How can you use that kind of feedback to evaluate your work?