What Red should I use on my Foundry redcoats?

[Keyser Soze]

Hi there,
well, I\'m about to start painting my AWI British Regulars (Foundry) now, I just can\'t make up my mind which colours I should choose for their red coats. Should I paint them with Foundry reds (palette 21?), should I paint them with Vallejo Model colors (so many reds, don\'t know which ones to choose as base, highlight and shade) or should I use Vallejo Game reds or GW reds (durable but too shiny?). I want them to look as accurate as possible, so if anyone on this board has any helpful suggestions and/or experience with painting redcoats, I would be very thankfull.
Thanks in advance everyone!

cheers,

Keyser

 

[Calavera]

If you want a really good muted, earthy red go for a 70/30 mix of Blood Red/Scorched Brown and adding Blood Red in for consecutive highlight mixes

Vallejo Model Color Red-947 looks good too.

Edit: Actually googled \"Redcoats\" for pics to see actually how accurate... and Blood Red seems like a good choice.

 

[Sand Rat]

First welcome to the Madness, Keyser.

Secondly, I would tend towards a more scarlet coloration, as most of the pictures I have seen are pretty damn bright red. Not much of a help, I know, but thats the best I can do from work. I\'ll go home and see what I can find in my references there for you also.

 

[Cerridwyn1st]

If using Model Color...

Start with a basecoat or Hull Red. Layer on Red, leaving Hull Red in the seams, creases, etc. For highlights, either mix a little yellow in your red or use THIN red/orange (almost a wash on your highlights). Add successive layers until your highlights look bright enough. This gives a very rich red color, like deep velvet.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Well first, thanks for the warm welcome
This is a great board and your posts have been very helpfull so far.
I was also thinking about a more scarlet coloration. So first I was thinking about maybe using a basecoat of Hull Red or Burnt Red, then layer on Carmine Red or Red and then highlight with Scarlet or Vermillion. But then I thought it might be better to just simply paint them with the good old GW Scab Red, Red Gore and Blood Red or the Vallejo Game equivalents (that would be my favorite choice right now). But since the GW reds tend to turn out a little too bright, I thought about maybe giving Foundry reds a try (never used any of those). I\'ve been painting miniatures for quite some time now, but these darn redcoats make me feel like I never touched a brush before lol.
Never been so indecisive!

 

[Cerridwyn1st]

Go with your first instincts.

Originally posted by Keyser Soze
Well first, thanks for the warm welcome
This is a great board and your posts have been very helpfull so far.
I was also thinking about a more scarlet coloration. So first I was thinking about maybe using a basecoat of Hull Red or Burnt Red, then layer on Carmine Red or Red and then highlight with Scarlet or Vermillion. But then I thought it might be better to just simply paint them with the good old GW Scab Red, Red Gore and Blood Red or the Vallejo Game equivalents (that would be my favorite choice right now). But since the GW reds tend to turn out a little too bright, I thought about maybe giving Foundry reds a try (never used any of those). I\'ve been painting miniatures for quite some time now, but these darn redcoats make me feel like I never touched a brush before lol.
Never been so indecisive!

Go with what you said first - Vallejo all the way.

Do you have any figs you really don\'t care that much about? Paint one the first way you discribe, then another the second way. Put them side-by-side and see which you like best.

Or just make two sqares on a piece of paper. Layer the colors you discribe inwards, so your shade color is on the outside and the highlights are in the middle, and see which you like better.

 

[Mosch]

Hm.... I found some pictures, and I personally would use a base of Vallejo Game Colour Scar Red. Of course don\'t take my word, my own minis look shitty

And yes, I do use Game Colour, and if someone wants to tell me how much I suck, I have already heard it all, so don\'t bother :moon:

 

[Keyser Soze]

Orginal gepostet von Mosch
And yes, I do use Game Colour, and if someone wants to tell me how much I suck, I have already heard it all, so don\'t bother :moon:

what should be wrong with Vallejo Game Colors ???
Good coverage, invisible brushstrokes and more sunlight resistent and durable than Model Colours.

 

[finn17]

For realism...

You have to choose the colour that most closely matches blood with appropriate shading and highlighting.
The original choice of colour for the \'redcoats\' was based on a somewhat perverse psychology. It seemed to work at the time however, provided you didn\'t mind taking heavy losses. Which the, then commanders, didn\'t

 

[Mosch]

Orginal gepostet von Keyser Soze

Orginal gepostet von Mosch
And yes, I do use Game Colour, and if someone wants to tell me how much I suck, I have already heard it all, so don\'t bother :moon:

what should be wrong with Vallejo Game Colors ???
Good coverage, invisible brushstrokes and more sunlight resistent and durable than Model Colours.

Almost every forum/newsgroup/whatever that has found out that I use Game- instead of model colour has told me how bad they suck. I just naturally assumed that I was the single person who likes them I use them for the reasons you have pointed out, by the way


@finn17: What exactly was the plan? I could understand that blood red coats (um, not the GW colour) could have some kind of effect on the enemy, but what about those heavy losses you mentioned? I don\'t get it.

 

[Cerridwyn1st]

Scar red should be mid-tone

Originally posted by Mosch
Hm.... I found some pictures, and I personally would use a base of Vallejo Game Colour Scar Red. Of course don\'t take my word, my own minis look shitty

And yes, I do use Game Colour, and if someone wants to tell me how much I suck, I have already heard it all, so don\'t bother :moon:

Scar red doesn\'t have enough brown in it to make a good base color for the Redcoats. With the method I was talking about, the basecoat becomes the shade color for the piece. Scar Red would be the color painted on Hull Red to make the \"visual color\" that registers with the eye as the true color of the cloak.

Hull red is the shade color for the piece. The highlight could be either Scar Red with a little Bad Moon Yellow mixed in or Flame Orange. Get the paint fairly thin, and apply in thin, successive coats until you get the look you want.

As far as saying Game Color sucks compaired to Model Color, well, you won\'t hear that from ME. Both paints have their merrits and detractors, and it is up to the individual painter to decide which he or she will use.

Game Colors are a little thinner. They also contain additives that make the paint form a hard \"shell\" on the surface of the mini that resists chipping. Game Colors are meant to be fairly close to Citadel paints (note that a lot of them have similar names), though GC has a few more colors than GW.

Game Colors were formulated with Fantasy and Sci-Fi tabletop miniatures players in mind - people that handle thier minis a lot and don\'t necessarily require a large number of colors.

The Model Colors were formulated for historical modelers. They have a very wide range of colors to mimic the wide range of uniform colors needed by historical modelers. They also provide a lot of colors for skin tones, horse bodies, terrain, etc.

The conistancy of Model Color is a little thicker. They do not have additives to make them really tough for tabletop use.

Neither one \"sucks\" per se. They are different formulations for different uses, that\'s all. Personally, I use both. I\'ve got the full range of Game Colors and quite a few Model Colors.

 

[Keyser Soze]

@finn17: What exactly was the plan? I could understand that blood red coats (um, not the GW colour) could have some kind of effect on the enemy, but what about those heavy losses you mentioned? I don\'t get it.

I guess what he ment is, that it is often said that the scarlet red uniforms were intended to conceal traces of blood. I wouldn\'t agree with the comment about british commanders not minding heavy losses though. First, usually heavy losses were quite a rarity during engagements of the AWI. Most casualties were caused by the incompetent and poorly paid surgeons (who weren\'t even required to hold a medical diploma) and inexpert assistance. Secondly, it\'s the standard military tactics of the late 18th century that seems so inhumane to us, not the military commanders, who often took a lot of care for their men, (like C. Cornwallis did for his 33rd Foot).

 

[Sand Rat]

But if you are going to use scarlet to hide the color of blood, why then do all the supporting leather work in white leather? And why wait until the 1890\'s to change the color of the uniforms to something that blends better with the terrain?
As for the tactics, they were a outgrowth of dropping a round ball down a smooth bore - the ball didnt really have anything to cause it to spin - even though rifling had been known for about 50 yrs when the Brown Bess was invented - thus causing the ball to go flying out at any angle. Fireing into masses of troops by masses of troops was the best way to deal with this, a tactic which lasted up to the American Civil War, when rifling had pushed ranges of the weapons up and made them more accurate - the battle losses then were truely horrendous.

Sorry - just a historian putting in a nickels worth

 

[Keyser Soze]

plus marksmanship in most regiments was poor, the efficency of firearms like the Brown Bess was still pretty much dependent on the weather and most officers trained in the school of european warfare were prone to place more reliance upon the bajonet than upon the bullet.

Sorry - just a historian putting in a nickels worth

don\'t mind since I\'m a historian too. lol

 

[finn17]

Well, at risk of mixing it with you historians....

My understanding of English strategy at this period was pure lunacy mixed with a (very small) touch of genius.

Please correct me if I am wrong , but tactics at the time dictated that English troopers used to wear the brightest colour around and had to march slowly towards the enemy. You weren\'t allowed to break ranks and you weren\'t allowed to charge.

If enough of you were left alive at the end of the \'advance\' you had permission to crack a few heads

Not a strategy that would be popular today

 

[ZeCorto]

Hannibal Lecter told me recently that on Redcoats he prefers a full-bodied red, like a Chateau Margaux or a even Shiraz.

 

[finn17]

He\'s gone soft then....

Cos only Blood tastes like Blood

 

[Keyser Soze]

A\'right,
I finally made up my mind. Guess I\'ll try out Foundry Scarlet (pallete 21). Might have a more satin finish but the colour just seems right and I allways wanted to try out Foundry paints. If I shouln\'t like the outcome, I\'ll take my Vallejo Colours. Thanks everyone, you\'re help is very much appreciated

cheers

Keyser

PS: if you can spare some time, feel free to take a quick look at the few pics that I\'ve posted yet. No exceptional stuff, but it would be great to get some comments on these minis (couple of GW LotR models). Here they are:
Keysers Gallery
thanks again