What the heck is up in the UK?

[Infidel Castro]

I\'m trying to picture England as a giant prison. It\'s a funny thought! We\'ll have to cut off Wales with a big saw so that the criminals can\'t get over here. It\'ll be like a crazy dystopia! I\'d have a gun and everything!

 

[sebrushworth]

The thing is, I seriously doubt beating the children makes the slightest bit of difference. It\'s the same kids that keep getting in trouble, and they won\'t stop just because they risk being hit.

I think there are better ways of doing things. I think for example that smaller class sizes and more teachers would make an enormous difference to the atmosphere in school.

And I think kids with problems should be identified and moved to special schools that are better equipped to deal with them.

My father also beat me and I hate him for it. I\'ll dance on the bastard\'s grave.

 

[Infidel Castro]

That\'s more like it! You addressed the problem in a far better way this time. We\'ve met half way lol

Quite right about class sizes and facilities for the persistent offenders. That would make more sense altogether.

When you say your old fella beat you, I get the impression that\'s a little different from what my mam and dad did to us. There was no lack of control or brutality. If your old man was like that I\'ll dance on the grave with you dude!

 

[finn17]

Give me strength...

What a lot of tosh.....

I speak as an \'expert\' on this subject, or at least someone who is paid considerable sums of money, to advise schools. You either permit swearing or you ban it..you can\'t \'ration\' it.

I have worked in special schools where you would be on a hiding to nothing trying to stop the inmates from swearing, but in mainstream schools there is no excuse. For God\'s sake, the teacher\'s would have to keep a class list and try and keep track of the \'f*cks!!!\'.

\"Okay Rodney, you\'ve had all your five \'fucks\', \'cnuts\' and \'bollocks\'. You\'ve got three \'buggers\', two \'sh1ts\' and a \'p1ss\' to go\"

Love that link Revlol

Particularly the sub-heading:

(65 Girls At Area School Pregnant)
School To Unveil Three-Prong Program

 

[sebrushworth]

Cheers reverend lol

 

[Modderrhu]

Absolutely, rev. I don\'t believe that a deserved beating, done with control and no brutality, is abuse. I disagree with sebrushworth that a beating makes no difference at all. It made a difference with me. No discipline means no respect, see my previous post for an example of zero discipline.

My dad gave me a whalloping when I deserved it. He\'s been dead for almost 8 years now, and I cannot imagine having had a better father than he was. I respected him when he was alive and I respect him now.

 

[sebrushworth]

Hmm, well I guess this is a question where we have very different cultural points of view. Here in Sweden, if you spank your kid on the bottom, that\'s child abuse. Very few of my friends here have ever been touched by their parents, and they seem to respect them anyway.

 

[sebrushworth]

I don\'t think discipline = beatings. I agree completely that we need discipline, and a clear set of rules, I just think there are punishments which don\'t involve physical pain.

In my opinion respect is something you earn, not something you can force on someone else.

I did a stint in the Swedish army as an MP (national service, like ritual was talking about), and I had absolutely no respect for the officers above me. Their attempts to foster \"respect\" and \"discipline\" by shouting at us and making us perform various pointless excerzises just made me think they were jerks and morons. I may have feared some of the officers, but I never respected them.

 

[Modderrhu]

Yes, it\'s the same here too now. Legally, it\'s child abuse to spank a kid, but that\'s in the eyes of the law. It\'s a fine line between child abuse and discipline, and laws have chosen to favour the kids.

Yeah, I hear your point about kids respecting parents still. The older two kids of this bint that I mentioned earlier in this topic, are actually lovely kids. But I wonder how her youngest would have turned out had he had some stronger discipline (of whatever form) and guidance.

I agree too that respect is something earnt, not forcibly extracted. But I think it\'s reasonably clear that a kid with discipline is going to respect parental authority more than a kid who sees absolutely no benefit to obeying parental authority.

I\'m no expert on disciplining kids; I have none of my own (thank Heavens), all I\'m trying to get at is that a spanking done for the sake of discipline does not destroy respect. Neither does it necessarily constitute child abuse, as the laws decree it does.

 

[Einion]

So we\'re all agreed then, this is a load of bollocks?!

Originally posted by leopardpixie
Plus all school should have a capital punishment rule.

Corporal punishment dude

Einion

 

[Legacy Account]

...we had already established that.

Capital punishment would be a blessing in one or two of the shit holes I\'ve worked in....

 

[Orb]

Certainly pretty funny, Einion, and Bollocks!

As the proud \"owner\" of a seven year old, this smacking debate has come up in our house. He has been smacked, although only once or twice, and it didn\'t help, only to possible relieve frustration of the grownup doing it.
And he\'s a polite friendly happy child who\'s well behaved and considerate. It\'s what u teach them as parents that\'s important - not leaving it to the teachers or the tv.

 

[RedDawn]

Being a mom I agree with Rev and Sebrushworth (sp?). In a perfect world you could gain respect without spanking, but it just doesn\'t happen sometimes.

I love my kids, but I expect them to behave and sometimes it takes a smack on the bottom to get that point across. If you discipline your children at an early age, then by the time they are my kids\' ages, 9 & 10, then once a year - if even that - is enough to reinforce good behavior. Usually they get smacked on the bottom when they\'re avoiding eye contact because I have THE LOOK down to a T! (Just ask Grumb! )

I\'m sorry, but sometimes my boys just WILL NOT STOP doing *insert annoying/bad behavior here* and a smack on their butt to get their attention AND get the point across that I\'m not kidding is warranted.

Sebrushworth, I also had a father (step, actually) that was abusive. He \"spanked\" me (with a belt usually) until I was fifteen. (I finally kicked him, put up my fists, and told him if he wanted to fight then we\'d fight. At that point he walked away and that night I ran away and went and lived with my Dad for a little over a year.) Anyway, I\'m VERY sensitive to the abuse issue! I think it comes down to ALL of your parenting efforts - yes, I spank them once in a blue moon, I definitely give them THE LOOK when they warrant it, and I yell at them - probably more than I should. BUT, I also read to them every night, play games with them, take them hiking, etc. There\'s got to be a balance.

As for the school allowing the kids to curse, that\'s definitely going to come back on them. Obviously the parents are not enforcing rules at home and the only place they\'re getting any kind of authority is at school - and the school is undermining that authority.

As for the american school with all the pregnant girls - I personally think EVERY kid, male and female, should have to keep that electronic doll/baby for at least two weeks - and have the baby have colic and have the volume on it turned up enough to break glass! And this should be done twice a year lest they forget before summer! (Actually, I think they should have to keep it longer than two weeks, but that probably wouldn\'t happen.)

But then again, what do I know - I\'m just a mom...

 

[johnboyjjb]

The problem with American schools is simple. Parents, teachers, and students don\'t use schools to learn anything. They use them like a baby sitter. I think if parents spent more time with their spawn instead of shipping them off they would normally come out better. Some people should never been allowed children.

About spanking. Spanking should never be done out of anger or frustration. If applied properly to a good kid, They should learn to fear the disappointment they will cause the parent more than the spanking itself. Some kids will just start to resent the parent at which point something elsemust be tried. I am sick of seeing parents who let the kids run the house.

 

[Avelorn]

The issue in the article is more or less bollocks I think, on the other issue I must agree with Sebastian.

It is interesting that most people positive to spanking are those brought up with it. As a parent people seem to identify with their own parents behaviour, as that is the only real role model for parenting we have in our bagage.

However, I doubt the need for spanking in an otherwise wellfunctioning home, and if it is an internal conflict in the family that makes the kids go doo-doo... then I doubt that it will be sortet out with a good spanking. But however I speak in general terms as always. As I say that theft \"in general\" is not acceptable (while in specific cases, easily exemplified theft might be a solution.), violence is not acceptable either.

It is easy to see why, really. What is bad behaviour? Why should a kid get \"disciplined\"? These is questions that are hard to answer, and if answered by parents individually it could have disastrous results. The least we can do for the children in the world is to protect them from physical harm.

But as I\'ve said I\'m speaking in general terms, and am not passing judgement on individual peoples actions (as with theft).

 

[Infidel Castro]

Okay, here\'s another viewpoint. Animals \'discipline\' their young with a quick nip on occasions, or a cuff if they\'re bigger creatures. I\'ve seen dogs do it, cats do it, lions and tigers, leopards, hyena-type things, bears and all sorts. Chimps too. I think the animal side of us occasionally needs the authority of a short, sharp shock. A kid bullying his/her younger sibling needs to realise it ain\'t right. The difference between a quick smack and bullying is clearly defined. Bullying is making someone feel shit for no other reason than you can. A controlled smack on the arse to say STOP is a different affair altogether.

Avelorn - you\'ve over-simplified the issue by saying we copy our parents. My old man is a handyman when he fancies it, but I can\'t bloody stand it. He drives and yet I\'ve never been bothered. i\'d rather catch a bus or ride a bike. If we mimic our parents in the way you suggest, there would be virtually NO variance between generations.

finn - do you think the three-pronged attack is just an up-turned stool? Should keep the ladies happy as well as one or two of the boys lol The other lads maybe need some strong elastic bands to prevent emissions. :wow:

 

[Godlikebuthumble]

IMHO corporal \"discipline\" is the last method of bringing your kid \"back in line\" (not meant to sound that fascist as it does, more in a RedDawn way... getting the point across.) after the request to cut it out and reason have failed to achieve the same effect. For if the kid doens\'t have the respect for you to abide by the rules, it won\'t get better if you let it go rampant, will it?
I \"fondly\" remember dozens of incidents I witnessed, that went like this:
Mother and child (child mostly between 5-10) at the supermarket, Wal-Mart or whatever. The kid wants something, like the chocolate whatever they have near the cashiers, regardless of the fact that the mother already got some. Mother points out that she already bought some, or another reason not to buy more stuff for the brat. Brat starts throwing fits of fake crying, loud enough to start of car alarms a mile away. This is often accompanied by jumping up and down and/or rolling on the friggin floor! And the best part:
Mommy (with an \"I\'ve given up, why don\'t you shoot me\"-expression on her face): \"Kevin (whoever had the effing great idea of calling German kids \"Kevin\"?! Damn Macauley Culkin!), please stop, or mummy will be very sad... please...\"
Newsflash, lady! Kids are fuckin\' selfish bastards! The kid prolly won\'t give a hoot if you hang yourself by your innards, as long as he gets what he wants!!! End of story, kid wins in 10 out of 12 cases. Why? \'cause the parent doesn\'t have the guts to slap the little shit once to make clear that there\'s a line that\'s not to be crossed.
Maybe I\'ll think different when I have kids of my own, but I guess kids need a little bit of fear, just to know their boundaries, same as adults do.

On the topic of that school: a perfect example of \"wrong\". I dunno about others, but at my school, you\'d be told off for swearing once, for the second time they\'d give notice to your parents, and the parents would deal accordingly (give you the \"talk\" or punish you otherwise.). This won\'t work anymore, \'cause a lot of parents just don\'t give a sh*t. They might swear and curse a lot themselves, but basically they don\'t control (or care) what their kids say and do. So, in light of schools having no \"legal\" means of disciplining the kids, might give up like the one given, and just play along... Gimme caning anytime...

EDIT:
http://www.fugly.com/media/download.php?cat=MOVIES&id=3280&sort=&order=&rating=&per_page=
have a look at this, you\'ll know what I mean... not that the parents are much better. There\'s a point where anything\'s too late...