Why chiks in fantasy are half/completely naked???

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by tzor
What occasionally gets me is the really odd stuff, for example something I call an \"anti bra.\" A covering over the top of the breast leaving the bottom exposed. I don\'t even want to know how those things work. Suction cups? Glue?

In real life... they DON\'T work. In real life, any actual breast larger than an A cup would flop out the bottom of such a garment the minute the wearer moved. They show up in fantasy fashion because they are unusual-looking - the appeal of an unusual form of semi-nudity cannot be denied. Apparently the technical term for it is \"neathage\", and an exposed underside of the breast was strictly banned by the original Comics Code, though upper cleavage was not. As someone said \"perhaps they believed moss grew there\"...

As for the general sex bias in fantasy... it\'s easy to say \"OMG that\'s all sexist and wrong\". And in many ways that is true. But I view the whole \"chainmail bikini\" thing as being largely humorous at this point - yes it originated as a purely titillatory objectification of women and for that reason I tend to prefer less cheesecake-y heroines (Buffy and Willow, while attractive, never fight less than fully-clothed). But like the half-naked \"He-Man\" style male barbarian, it is a fantasy cliche and I think it has its place in the genre.

 

[Primeval]

Originally posted by reverend

Originally posted by Primeval

Figured I had to at least throw something out there since I was summoned by the Rev

I pictured you grappling with one of our scantily clad subject ladies as I typed. Am I right?

While I typed as well; being barbarian king keeps a man busy lol

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by mud duck
3 a woman in full plate, mini wise would look greatly like a man. So whats the point of painting that model?

Well, some would argue \"why not paint it\"? If the fantasy worlds we portray supposedly permit women to run around being heroes, why would the default sex for an armored warrior be male? So why not paint male and female warriros, regardless of how obvious their sex appears on the model?

4 women in fantisy are expected to use hit and run tatics and not the bash bash bash tatic, so less armour, more speed and moblity.

One thing that impressed me in the video game \"Unreal Tournament 2004\" was that in most games, the female models are all \"rogues\" - slender and small, suggesting they rely on dexterity instead of power. But in UT2004 there were large, heavily armored female \"tank\" models right alongside the males. And why not? In real life, some women ARE \"tanks\" you\'d want on your side in a bar brawl. The small \"rogue\" stereotype developed because that\'s a body most men find more attractive when it\'s portrayed.

 

[vincegamer]

Someone mentioned above that less armor makes it easier to run around and do dodging, spritely things.

This is true.
I remember going to a tournament once in the SCA (recreation of medieval combat). The final round ended up being between the typical fully armored knight and a guy affectionately known as \"Bunny\" because all he usually wore was a rabit fur loin cloth.
Of course there are minimum armor requirements, so Bunny wore the bare minimum (helmet, gorget, knee & elbow cops, kidney belt, cup). Bare arms and legs and chest. Bunny won by dodging running, and at one point actually leaping in the air above a sword stroke.

I have not yet seen a woman fight in minimum armor....


p.s. anyone remember when Red Sophia throws herself at Cerebus? Great scene. She takes off her top to reveal her massive chest with presumably red areols, and says \"what do you think of these?\" Cerebus replies: \"they\'d heal if you stopped wearing that chainmail bikini.\"

 

[dauber22]

Originally posted by vincegamer

I have not yet seen a woman fight in minimum armor....

Vince, you obviously just don\'t frequent the right night clubs lol

As for ALL the rest of the discussion, I think DFD summed it up succinctly: Sex Sells.

 

[Shawn R. L.]

The hot ones are always equipped with serious wedgies.lol

 

[Tony Manero]

Originally posted by Dragon Forge Design
Its simple..two words...

SEX SELLS

the pure and simple truth

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by dauber22
Vince, you obviously just don\'t frequent the right night clubs lol

You\'ll just have to show me the town next time I\'m in upstate NY.

 

[Gin1906]

Ok,
Time for a post from one of the ladies.
I tend to paint a lot of the half naked or in some cases mostly naked women, I actually paint more women than men.

Why, because (and I am a heterosexual married, with children female). The female form is beautiful, and more interesting to paint than a mans, that\'s not to say that there aren\'t some awfully nice looking men out there, because there are.
When I paint I \'try\' to create a thing of beauty, it helps to start with a beautiful mini, and that usually is a half naked female.
Gin

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by Gin1906
Ok,
Time for a post from one of the ladies.
I tend to paint a lot of the half naked or in some cases mostly naked women, I actually paint more women than men.

Why, because (and I am a heterosexual married, with children female). The female form is beautiful, and more interesting to paint than a mans, that\'s not to say that there aren\'t some awfully nice looking men out there, because there are.
When I paint I \'try\' to create a thing of beauty, it helps to start with a beautiful mini, and that usually is a half naked female.
Gin

That\'s pretty much my view point also. I do paint a lot of semi-naked men as well, so maybe I\'m actually inspired by the human form regardless of gender... I don\'t know. :] Well, that\'s all the analysing I\'m going to do on this subject!

 

[Tony Manero]

Originally posted by Gin1906
Ok,
Time for a post from one of the ladies.
I tend to paint a lot of the half naked or in some cases mostly naked women, I actually paint more women than men.

Why, because (and I am a heterosexual married, with children female). The female form is beautiful, and more interesting to paint than a mans, that\'s not to say that there aren\'t some awfully nice looking men out there, because there are.
When I paint I \'try\' to create a thing of beauty, it helps to start with a beautiful mini, and that usually is a half naked female.
Gin

i\'m not omosexual but honesly i like more to paint male muscles, especially the abdomen and the head, because i can give them nicer effects with strange colours (ex: started with purple for grimalldus\' followers) than i can do with female

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by Gin1906
that\'s not to say that there aren\'t some awfully nice looking men out there, because there are.

Why thank you very much.

 

[Naukhel]

Sure, sex sells. According to statistics, men think about it every 6 seconds, and women, once a minute.

But, from a design/concept point of view... I think someone mentioned this... first off, the female form is generally easier to draw. I find this to be true, myself. I\'m not a fantastic artist, but my pictures of women tend to be better than my pictures of men.

Conversely, my wife draws men better than women. She says it really depends on \'what you like to look at\'.

Taking this stance, most fantasy artists in those early days were men, and men like (generally speaking) to look at scantily clad women. So, this is what we see.

Comic books are almost completely drawn by men, so, given our (as mentioned above) pre-occupation with sex, it really isn\'t a surprise that the women are more commonly drawn in revealing clothes.

One can even track the realisation of comic book artists that \'sex sells\' and (I think) how long it\'d been since the artist in question \'got some\'. Just pick up some comics from the early-mid 80\'s, and watch how all the female characters\' busts got larger, then smaller, then larger again.

It\'s my assumption that they got larger as the artists\' wives weren\'t \'in the mood\'.

Anime can pretty much be excused from the thread, because the japanese (again, generally speaking) have a much more open mind-set about sex.

But I\'m still waiting to see a feminist anime character make her first \'transformation\' into her super-hero form, look down at herself to discover the lingirie-like hero costume she\'s wearing, and declare: \"OH NO! I am NOT wearing this in public!\" Then stalk off to change into something less revealing.

Of course, my whole argument gets shot to pieces by modern fantasy artists, male and female, drawing anything and everything that comes to mind. I can\'t remember who said this, but I think it was one of the women artists.. \"I got sick of seeing scantily clad fantasy women being badly drawn, so I painted naked fantasy women. Just stick it all right out there and quit dreaming, boys!\"

\"I\'m male. I think of sex when I look at linoleum.\" -Paraphrasing Xander Harris from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

 

[frostdawn]

Originally posted by Naukhel
I can\'t remember who said this, but I think it was one of the women artists.. \"I got sick of seeing scantily clad fantasy women being badly drawn, so I painted naked fantasy women. Just stick it all right out there and quit dreaming, boys!\"

\"I\'m male. I think of sex when I look at linoleum.\" -Paraphrasing Xander Harris from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

lol

 

[cookster]

Yeah I agree with you.

Personally i\'d like it if miniatures started going away from the: violence where every model is equiped with a weapon, every female is almost nude, etc etc.

I\'d like it if there were some models mostly exposed (male and female) solely becuase painting skin and muscle is really the only thing im good at.

 

[supervike]

Hmm. I never noticed it before...so you are saying that fantasy women are scantily clothed?

I have to start paying more attention.



But honestly, don\'t you think it is more of a reflection of our society as opposed to pigeon-holing it to one genre?

Just about everything has nekkid chicks now-a-days.

Cheesecake does indeed sale, and I\'m not opposed to it. I fell for it when i first saw those Rackham Fianna gals... But, that being said, I have WAY more creepy monster miniatures than I do T&A minis.

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by supervike
Just about everything has nekkid chicks now-a-days.

And people say everything was better before...

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by Ritual

Originally posted by supervike
Just about everything has nekkid chicks now-a-days.

And people say everything was better before...

Yeah...we have to take the good with the better I guess....lollol

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by vincegamer
p.s. anyone remember when Red Sophia throws herself at Cerebus? Great scene. She takes off her top to reveal her massive chest with presumably red areols, and says \"what do you think of these?\" Cerebus replies: \"they\'d heal if you stopped wearing that chainmail bikini.\"

Didn\'t she say \"Use my body any way you like\" so he made her carry his pack? I thought that was hilarious until I learned that Dave Sim is a raging misogynist in real life...

Originally posted by cookster
Personally i\'d like it if miniatures started going away from the: violence where every model is equiped with a weapon, every female is almost nude, etc etc.

Well, the explanation I give non-mini painter people is \"well they ARE mostly made for war games\". I do have a fair number of unarmed minis, which I often find more interesting - if only because it opens up the subject matter a bit.

 

[Hieronymus]

...I remember going to a tournament once in the SCA (recreation of medieval combat)...

I have not yet seen a woman fight in minimum armor....

I think that part of it is that women might be more susceptible to bruising and less susceptible to being macho.

Combat is not about standing there and bashing. The medieval Western Martial Arts longsword seminars I\'ve attended stress movement. Watching two skilled combatants going at eachother using authentic historic combat techniques is amazing and exciting. It\'s not about brute strength or even speed, it\'s all about being in the right place at the right time. You don\'t have have to be Conan to cut through a limb with a longsword either. A longsword, properly made, will only weigh from 2.5 to four pounds, and will cut through flesh and bone easier than you might think.
I like my swords, but they also scare the hell out of me sometimes.