Worse than not painted at all?

[Lurch]

Forgive my rant here. I am usually not so thinned skinned, but I gotta know.

Since being here I have learned a little about painting, photography and am trying to figure out what it is that everyone else likes in minis.
I have read every article, I am a regular reader of the forum and believe I am improving as I keep going.
I recently put another mini to the test.
I painted it using a nice color scheme, I removed it from its slotta base and mounted it on a larger base I built from scratch.
The figure (Gauntfield the scarecrow) looked to me as if he needed to be in a field somewhere so I built a broken down fence from sticks which I broke, fitted, painted and mounted together. I would say one of my better pieces. I then went out and bought a daylight bulb to photograph my mini in a better light. I also tried using the articles here to manipulate the photo better in Photoshop pro (which I recently got at no small price...) I also remembered that some people said my pictures were too small, so I made sure it was a fair size. I was quite proud of the work I did! In fact I would dare say it was the best I\'ve done.
Here\'s the link:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/?id=13864

Now I have watched it after only 7 scores down to a 6.1. After all the work I did on this, the result was kind of a bummer to me. Realizing this isn\'t a forum to be on if you cant take the beating, I am trying to take it for what its worth.
But the real bummer was when I was voting and found this unpainted, unconverted beyond the bitz box, mini which is photographed without any special background or technique, not manipulated in any way and self admittedly not completed

... and it ranks higher than MY completed work?
http://www.coolminiornot.com/?id=13357

Now I don\'t mean to belittle bobchinook\'s work here but I just don\'t get it.

I mean come on, Am I really that bad?
If my scarecrow is worse than a non- painted mini, please tell me what I am doing wrong ???

 

[Errex]

Apples to Oranges

Sadly, you seem to be a victim of the dreaded double standard.

For some time now, people has been posting conversion work unpainted, fishing for feedback and advise. Granted, some of those conversions are skillful and original, but I think that they don\'t really belong here. I\'d advise all the would be sculptors to post those works either on the specialized sculpting sites, or to rally and commision Chern to create another Mini Scuplting & Converting site. Who knows?, it might even be a good resource for companies looking for talents.

 

[ZaPhOd]

Sculpts

Yeah, I gotta agree. I totally dig a lot of the sculpting work and there are many talented folks out there, Bro Jow, Ramon, Prophet, and a slew I have missed, but if a sculpted or even SLIGHTLY converted figure is unpainted and scoring an 8 or something ludicrous, what is it when complete? A 12 ? Come on. I could do a weapon swap and post it but I really don\'t think anyone wants to see that crap. Skillfully sculpted greens are very nice but it is like half paintign base colors and posting it... advice to complete a mini shoul dbe gained from groups IMO. And I totally sympathise with you Lurch. I think the Scarecrow is great and I would give it a 7, especially since I know the effort you put in. The actual painting and such is not the best, but who\'s is? The other figure in question (again no angst against the \"artist\") would get a 3 from me, simply because I see an unpainted and not even primed mini....
One point I see you made is that you are trying to figure out what people like. I say, who cares? What do you like? You will never get great scores trying to figure out what people like. You will also lose interest in the hobby if you are not doing what YOU like. Keep that in mind.
Have fun dude! I do

 

[Chrispy]

I can see how people would want to show off their converted stuff, but when it\'s a pic that doesn\'t show off the mini, why bother? Case in point: you can pick out details better if the mini was inked or primed. I definatly think your painted one is much better because of your set up and base.. the khorne berzerker just looks like a mass of white metal.. I have to strain my eyes to see what it\'s comprised of.. well, that\'s how it is... But take heart, you\'ll improve your work quality and with the set up you have, you should get great pics!

 

[nadinbrzezinski]

I\'m going to stick to your oiginal question

Your paint job is very good, actually should be scoring a little better than it is.

Now here is what I think is hurting it... shiny, as in what sealer did you use? Matte tends to photograph better, from experience.

The second issue is that some people are giving better scores for convernsion work before painting, I dunno why, or maybe it is the rage look on gaming tables across the country. (Incidentally I know some areas where the preferred scheme is plastic gray and silver metal)

Now what you can do to improve, there is always room right?

Get some Matte sealer,

Thin your paints a little, I have him and he is an interesting exercise and a top notch model.

Also with the bone use a tad of yellow ink with some brown to age them a tad. that will help, and it might be the photo.

Personally, in case you wonder, I gave it an 8, and do not let yourself be pulled down by the scores, just enjoy it.

Nadin

 

[wightzombie]

dirty the bone white and repost the pic at no taller than 5 inches. even the best minis start showing signs at 8 inches.

 

[Lurch]

I appreciate all the nice remarks and the honest criticisms. And again I know my painting is not anywhere near the caliber of Jen, Bobby, Sivous Play or some of my other favorites here. I also know I cannot be thin skinned.
But I was having a real hard time with some of the votes I saw here today.
Some of you may be aware I have been off the site for a few days with technical difficulties, and today was the first time in a week I got to see some of the minis that were recently put up here.
All I can say is that some of the votes here today have caught me off guard...
Not just my own items, but most every mini I have seen today has been Off the scale one way or the other.
And as far as wondering what other people think or judge on, I think we all do that no matter what we say here.
It explains why we post our minis, try the new techniques (NMM anybody?) or care where we rank within the group.
But alas I am off the true subject of my rant.
Once again, thanks for allowing me my little vent. All is cool with the world now!!

 

[wightzombie]

ooooooo thats right i forgot to ask if you ever got your browser squared away? i have some thoughts on that p3ending what OS your running and system etc.

 

[Lurch]

I guess it was a corruption in the database that keeps track of your votes.
Chern got me back up and running today..
YEE HAW!!!!!:bouncy:

 

[Xarthos]

I haven\'t been on this site long, and never posted a pic (not even going to bother till I get a good camera). But from what I have noticed, there is no way to paint to everyones liking. I have even seen many where one comment would say something like \"love the swords!\" and a few comments above \"great paint job, but the swords look bad\" (this particular instance I thought they looked awesome). I can only think of a couple of people who\'s work everyone seems to like. Have also noticed that some of the more favored artists get higher scores for pieces that aren\'t up to thier usual standard than they would have if it had been posted by a newer person (IMO). I guess thats just human nature though.

 

[Sand Rat]

Lurch -

I looked back over the piece - I rated the piece fairly highly - the only issues I had with it were the bone was to white and the face and hat were too close to the same shade.

 

[blackscribe]

Posting Rules?

I thought there was a rule stating that a mini had to be painted to be posted. I know I had one of my bare metal minis refused. Then, though, somebody posted a pick of a mini dipped in static grass that had something like a 7.9 . I was trying to prove that exposed nipples led to higher votes by posting a virtually nude mini that wasn\'t even painted. Your scarecrow isn\'t GW or Rackham, so there wasn\'t much point in posting it if you were going for a high rating.

 

[farseerlum]

fo rmy 2 cents i think the rating system is skewed!

5 for a tabletop quality? it sould not be posted unless it is that quality so a 2 or three for table top quality. 6 for a nice job with some flaws. 8 really good stuf. 9+ it better make me want to sell my soul to paint that well....

remmember that what you see at home isn\'t what we see. and we see a bit too much gloss. (superficial though we know what gloss is and adjust accordingly)

actually i thought the base was the best thing about it!

i think the bare metal was a casting and therefore is \"higher\" skill level. higher or not it should not be posted.

don\'t give up, just have fun

 

[frankthedm]

\'HammerHead favoritism seems the likely cause.

 

[mlavanish]

Painted/Unpainted/Sculpted miniatures

I understand your misgivings about the ratings system. There are surely hundreds of examples where ratings seem to be askew from what they should be. But again, these are only peoples opinions, and everyone has a different one, and is judging your work on different criteria. That said...

I think you are doing yourself a disservice by comparing your miniature to an unpainted miniature. At least for me, I judge a mini based upon it\'s state of entry. If it is painted, I judge the painting/conversion/presentation. If it is only converted, then I judge the conversion. If it is a new sculpt, then I judge it as a new sculpt. Don\'t compare apples to oranges (or greens even ). Surely some of these miniatues would score much lower if painted poorly, don\'t you think...

As to submissions, the FAQ states:

Any picture of any painted or converted miniature is accepted. You must own the rights to the picture to post it.

This isn\'t CoolPaintedMiniorNot.com. I, for one, enjoy seeing other submissions besides just painted figures. Seeing conversions in their raw form certainly helps me with ideas, and I\'m sure helps people see how these things are put together. And I really enjoy seeing new greens. Little fascinates me more than the sculpting of tiny people. But that\'s me....

 

[Jericho]

Converting is an essential element of higher level modelling, and so it deserves to be showcased just as much as a model with a nice paintjob. I haven\'t posted any pure conversions myself, mainly because I always tinker with them before I just spray the primer and get to work already

I\'ve posted some on the forums, and on other sites to get opinions, mainly because I want advice on how to finish something and I don\'t like posting things for votes unless they\'re done.

One exception of course being my WIP Slaanesh Champion, but then again I really wanted a lot of opinions and the scores were to help determine just how much more work I needed to do on the thing

So basically don\'t get all distressed if your best painted mini is rated worse than a great sculpt or conversion, because a lot of people who can do those great conversions can only do a sub-par paintjob

 

[Big Mean Elf]

To mlavanish/Zappy/Jericho

Thanx for saying what I was going to....good post guys,and to Lurch,chin up youg brother,it will come,if you keep at it you will get there!

 

[PStafAllen]

I\'m in aconflicted position here: If you take a look at the scores in my gallery:

http://www.coolminiornot.com/browse.php?do=browseimg&submitter=PStafAllen

My highest score is for an unpainted conversion. One one hand I\'m really chuffed to have a score like that on the books, but on the other hand it feels like a bit of an insult to my painting (damning with faint praise...)

Either way, I\'m just going to keep trying harder.

 

[barkel]

votes can\'t be skewed

I think it is impossible for the votes on this forum to be skewed. After just 7 votes it is still impossible to tell how your mini will do, but after 100 votes it is likely that you have an accurate score of what the general population thinks of your mini. While I may disagree and think your scarecrow was a 7, somebody else, with different standards, may think it a 4. They aren\'t wrong. It\'s their opinion, even if it sucks.

You are doing the right thing. Rather than get upset about a low score, you are trying to improve your score and grow as an artist. Keep going.

On the subject of conversions. If a person lists their model as a conversion I judge it for it\'s quality as such or I skip it. I usually stick to judgeing painted models. The conversion in question I thought was horrible. But I\'m not familiar with the original model, so perhaps it\'s phenominal.

On the subject of your model. I think it is good. I think the size of the picture is perfect. What I wanted to see a little more of was shading. Also, there was a glare, probably from varnish, that made the model look leathery. I thought the base was great. I thought your colors were good also. The biggest drawback is the glare. I\'d work on that.

 

[Otter]

I think the votes CAN be skewed for a few reasons, the main one being personal preference (such as preference for the painter\'s reputation, preference for the figure being painted, preference for color scheme, etc.)

That aside, it\'s true that there\'s no better way to get a sample of what the majority thinks of your mini than through this ranking method. Majority concensus doesn\'t mean they are right, just in the majority.

It might be helpful to not look at the rankings AT ALL for a time, while you still continue to paint and post. Personally, I can\'t take a photo to save my life and I never base the figures that I keep (my boyfriend uses them in gameplay and he doesn\'t appreciate base residue on the table). This shoots my scores to heck and gone.

Comments are more appropriate to the overall value of a mini than scoring anyhow... it takes a second to click but a minute to type, meaning that additional thought has gone into their opinions. Now if there were only a way to encourage people to post at LEAST one comment a day... Anyone want to try organizing a \"comment a day\" project along with the \"mini a week\" project?

- Otter
\"Never send a ferret to do a weasel\'s work\"