Your opinion on my first shopping cart!

[lyko]

Hi all,

I just filled my first shopping cart at miniaturemarket *excited* . I watched a couple videos from "awesomepaintjob" and decided on the brushes and paints I want to use. But before clicking on the order button, I still have a few questions. I did use the search function but not very successfully, maybe I'm just using the search function wrong.

My current shopping cart:

• Army Painter Wargamer Brushes:
  • Regiment
  • Monster
  • Drybrush, small
  • Drybrush, large
  • Detail
  • Psycho
• Formula P3 Hobby Knife
• Formula P3 File Set
• Formula P3 Clippers
• Formula P3 Hobby Knife Blade Refill
• Formula P3 Hobby Series V1 Core Techniques - In my cart because I couldn't find a step by step guide on youtube for beginners starting at 0. Most of them start with a specific topic like "how to dry brush", but when and why I could dry brush... no idea.

My questions, as a beginner:
1. You've probably noticed the lack of colors and miniatures in my cart. That has one reason; I want to get many "cheap" miniatures to start with, but I don't know which ones are cheap and of "good" quality and which ones are cheap cheap? I am open to anything as long as the theme is fantasy. Which also leads to having no colors yet, as I want to order only the colors I need to paint the miniatures I'll eventually order. So any advice on that is highly appreciated. Oh, I want Vallejo colors, if that makes any difference...
2. Would you recommend a color primer or is this something I should not consider before I have a bit more skill?
3. How do painters make themselves accessories like the one used in this video for holding the miniature, and how do you get the miniature to stick to it without using glue?
4. Anything else missing in my cart?

Thank you once again!

 

[MAXXxxx]

1. reaper and darksword minis are both great in quality and I find them pretty cheap compared to other ranges.

2. color primer: unless you are painting a lot of the same(WH/WM army) it's not really needed, but the Armypainter ones I found pretty useful and good.

3. empty paint pot + bluetak + mini. It's good for SM-s, but for a pinned mini I use mostly a pin-vice, or this: http://www.pk-pro.de/index.php?page=categorie&cat=164 (I got one not long ago, a bit pricey and still only trying it, but so far I like it very much).

4. Missing? nothing. But...
- I don't think I'd ever get branded tools (either from PP or GW), I'd rather look around a DIY store for them.
- I'd rather get brushes from an art-store then the AP brushes. There the Regiment/Monster/Dry could be good, but I wouldn't trust the detail/psycho in quality.
Also most good or better brushes are a lot cheaper. AP Brushes cost about the same as Rosemary(Series33 watercolor brush if I'm right) and looking in the webstore about half-third price of a WnN (Series7) / Raphaell (8404). These would cover the regiment/detail-s. For drybrush I mostly use an extremely cheap one that can be found here in sets for like: 15 brushes for 1 euro.

 

[Bloodhowl]

Concur with MAXXxxx on the tools. I usually avoid hobby shops for these items as they can be had for a fraction of the cost at non-hobby shops. Office supply places usually carry x-acto type knives, poster tac, foam board, pva glue, etc... Discount hardware stores (Harbor Freight Tools) or discount retail (Walmart) for the jeweler's files, jeweler's saw and flush cutting nippers, sand paper, spray primers, glues, etc... The difference in cost can be 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the same items at Hobby Shops. Make sure to shop around. and price compare. The more you save on the tools, the more you will have for quality brushes, paints and miniatures.

 

[TrystanGST]

6 brushes seems a lot like overkill for someone just getting into things. Get a nice basecoating brush, and a good detail brush. As for colors, only you can decide what you need based on what you are going to paint. Definitely get black, white, brown, and a few other colors (red, blue, yellow, green) and you pretty much can get anywhere you need from there. No need for 200 paints. Certainly not to start. Reaper has an excellent selection of inexpensive minis, but go with what interests you most. Forcing yourself to paint something you don't really care for is a good way to ruin your enthusiasm.

 

[Dragonsreach]

I watched a couple videos from "awesomepaintjob" and decided on the brushes and paints I want to use.
I'm going to be rather brutal here but anyone who self describes as "awesompaintjob" I'm going to take with a large pinch of salt.
Like you I've watched several of his videos but to be honest I'm not really impressed with the quality of the end result.
In my opinion Tommie Soule's Golem Studio is producing far better results, so "shop around" on the youtube videos as there are so many which aren't worth the money you're paying for them.


My questions, as a beginner:
1. You've probably noticed the lack of colors and miniatures in my cart. That has one reason; I want to get many "cheap" miniatures to start with, but I don't know which ones are cheap and of "good" quality and which ones are cheap cheap? I am open to anything as long as the theme is fantasy.
As has been suggested Reaper miniatures are amongst the best available at a reasonable cost. BUT don't scrimp on the miniatures buy yourself a good one to work up to. Don't forget most metal minatures will put up with stripping back the paint to re-work.
As for Colours, within a fantasy field try to think of a more natural based colour dyes for clothing, Greens, Browns and Greys. Also remember if you look at Blue dyes in the medieval period they were so expensive they were out of most common peoples pocket. Skin tones, well therein lies a problem most skin tone paints are too pink, most caucasians aren't as bright a pink as paint manufacturers would have you believe. I used Vallejo Brwon Sand as my base skin colour as I matched it to the back of my hand. (A trick shown to me by a 2d painter is that if the paint you are using as skin is almost invisible against your own skin it's right!)

2. Would you recommend a color primer or is this something I should not consider before I have a bit more skill? Colour Primers are Ok for army painting, perhaps not so for display quality.
3. How do painters make themselves accessories like the one used in this video for holding the miniature, and how do you get the miniature to stick to it without using glue?
The holder he's using is an old GW (citadel paint pot) with what looks like a serious amount of "blu-tack" or equivalent. You can make a holder out of almost anything. I use a demi- john cork on a section of plastic tube other use old pin-vices or crocodile clips. You need to find the one that's most comfortable in your own hand, no one else can make one to suite your grip as easily.

4. Anything else missing in my cart? Yes. Pin vice, self healing cutting mat and a cheap artists apron. The Apron will save mess on your clothes (Voice of experience!!!) and also allow you to catch dropped items before they hit the floor and go 'walkabout'. Oh and stock up on paper clips for pinning. A pallette and at least two cheap cups or pots for water. one to wash the brush in, one to use for dilution.

......................

 

[Einion]

My comments are very similar to some above.

Brushes
Buying brushes in an arts & crafts environment is usually your best bet, when it comes to higher-end brushes in particular (not just for price but for quality too). In Canada the usual recommendations are Curry's or Wallack's but presumably there are others that might be suitable for you.

I think you should be thinking about getting a few cheap synthetics as workhorse brushes, then spend some or all of the money you've saved on some quality Kolinsky rounds*.

Modelling tools
I'm making these comments before checking the prices for what you've listed from Miniature Market. I have shopped on MM myself over the years and been impressed by their pricing, however as a general thing never buy tools from a hobby source, most particularly hobby-brand stuff, unless you've done some comparison shopping to check on prices.

Branded stuff from the modelling hobby can be among the most expensive options available for any given tool**, sometimes the most expensive - to the point where I've seen bricks-and-mortar retail prices that are less than some online prices.

Just like with brushes it pays to shop around for tools, only more so. It's worth saving money on these purchases because it's a good habit to get into for all similar future purchases.

Formula P3 Hobby Series V1 Core Techniques - In my cart because I couldn't find a step by step guide on youtube for beginners starting at 0. Most of them start with a specific topic like "how to dry brush", but when and why I could dry brush... no idea.

My advice would still be to exhaust all the (many) free resources available to the beginner before considering buying a DVD or the like.
http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/showthread.php?53028-Beginner-seeking-advice

2. Would you recommend a color primer or is this something I should not consider before I have a bit more skill?

If you're painting armies they can be useful, but for general painting I think grey is the most versatile single colour.

And if it needs to be said: auto primer > hobby primer.

3. How do painters make themselves accessories like the one used in this video for holding the miniature, and how do you get the miniature to stick to it without using glue?

There are dozens of options on holders for miniatures. At the simplest you could use a cork, with either double-sided tape or Blu-Tack to hold on to the miniature's base. If you're working on the mini by itself it's a good idea to pin it and the pin can just be pushed into a cork. Alternatively you can use the pin vice you used to drill the hole in the first place, they make quite good handles for smaller items.

If you're working on slotta minis you can cut a groove in the top of a cork and press the tab into the slot, not completely secure but does an okay job.

Eventually you can make your own simple clamp, with a handle that suits your taste or grip (fatter or thinner, longer or shorter).

4. Anything else missing in my cart?

This is a very open question I'm afraid. For many of us minimum kit would be quite a bit larger than the tools you have listed, but a bare-bones set is something along the lines of one craft knife, a file or two and some abrasive paper.

*Before you use your Kolinskys do a couple of searches (tips in previous thread) to read up on brush care and maintenance - you can ruin a good brush in short order if you don't use it appropriately or care for it properly.

**Didn't have the chance to post this earlier on, I had typed here that if I got the time I'd do some price comparisons on tools and post later on which I'll post shortly.

Einion

P.S. You can make a homemade stay-wet palette very easily and cheaply and I'd highly recommend you use one from the outset, for the most rudimentary kind you may have everything necessary in the house already. Previous threads here on CMON list everything needed for something more substantial, including options for the membrane paper that'll give you an idea of what you might look for where you are.

 

[Einion]

Okay had a look at prices now, here are two representative examples.

Needle files
P3 files x3 on MM - Regular Price: $8.99 Special Price: $6.75

The RRP for these is, I'm sad to say, extortionate. Even MM's reduced price does not represent good value.

Because you don't want to order from the US I don't know what your options are but the cheapest I've ever seen needle files was in person and just to give a basis for comparison this was 12 files for about a third the price of this set of 3! This was a promotional price as you'd probably guess, but it goes to show that the best value isn't always to be found online.

Craft knife
P3 knife on MM - Regular Price: $6.99 Special Price: $5.25

MM's price isn't bad for a quality handle with some replacement blades, but you can do better. I realise Amazon.com may not be where you'd like to buy stuff from but the same knife is quite a bit less there. And in general you can often see handles of similar quality for approximately a quarter the RRP of the P3 one, illustrating how inflated the prices of branded hobby tools can be.

Incidentally this blade type (X-Acto #11) is IMO is one of the least useful blades for general use. It's great for cutting paper and other flat materials on a board, not nearly so useful for the uses we'd typically put it to working on minis. I highly recommend a #10 as the general workhorse, and down the line one of the profiles that you can use more or less like a chisel are worth trying, e.g. #17.

Einion

 

[Bailey03]

Lots of good advice already so I don't have much to add. I'll second that Reaper is a good place to start for miniatures. They have a large selection and prices are reasonable. It's also worth looking around the store here on CMON. They've got a lot of different brands and, while they aren't necessarily cheap, you never know what will catch your eye. It's okay to buy minis just for practice, but if that's all you do you won't have as much fun. You can always set a goal, say I'll paint 5 practice ones and then I get to work on a more expensive model. Whatever motivates you.

Vallejo paints are a good choice but you might also want to take a look at Reaper Master Series paints. They are similar but the way RMS paints are organized can be nice for a beginner. Many colors are organized into a mid tone, shadow, and highlight. For example, one set of three is tanned shadow, tanned skin, and tanned highlight. Vallejo are also good (I've used them a lot) and have many many options... you just have to figure out the highlight and shadow colors yourself. Either way you go a wet palette would be a good addition. As Einion pointed out, they are cheap and easy to make yourself.

 

[lyko]

Thanks for all the great replies. I'm still filtering through them. But to explain why I've added the brushes in to my cart... I was at our local hobby store (Michaels) and the variety of brushes was just overwhelming and I as a beginner stood in front of all the brushes and was like "?????". And the army painter brushes seem to be of good quality. I will check out the other brush brands you've all mentioned, though.

Will keep you posted on how my shopping cart changes.

cheers!

 

[Einion]

I was at our local hobby store (Michaels) and the variety of brushes was just overwhelming and I as a beginner stood in front of all the brushes and was like "?????". !

That's understandable. Since you have a Michael's nearby you're in luck, their prices aren't bad and their receipt-back tokens make repeat custom well worthwhile.

Anyway in terms of brushes, look for inexpensive synthetics to start; you can abuse the crap out of them without them being ruined. The commonest type is nylon, usually a sort of orange-yellow colour (you might see it called golden taklon). Even cheap examples can work fine and last well.

The tips on synthetic rounds will all hook over with use, but you learn to live with that - that's one of the main reason people use Kolinsky rounds for detail painting, because they don't do that.

Einion

 

[lyko]

Hello,

I hope I'm not bothering you guys with my ongoing questions . I have just completed my "miniature shopping cart":

Dark Heaven Legends 3651 Storm Dragon Hatchling
[h=2]

Confrontation Scorpions Kheris Hero Box [/h]

Dark Heaven 3428 Barrow Warden Mystic

Dark Heaven 3521 Naline, Evil Female Knight

Pathfinder Miniatures 60130 Diabolist

Dark Heaven 3107 Fynch, Gnome Bard

Chronoscope 50121 Dr. Voodoo, Super Villain

Anima Tactics - Samael: Fallen Angel Ophiel

I now know which "regular" colors to order, but regarding the uncolored miniatures (uncolored on the pictures), how am I supposed to know what colors I need to paint them? Or is the purpose of showing them just in grey that one should free hand paint them?

Thanks again!

 

[Dragonsreach]

I now know which "regular" colors to order, but regarding the uncolored miniatures (uncolored on the pictures), how am I supposed to know what colors I need to paint them? Or is the purpose of showing them just in grey that one should free hand paint them?
Thanks again!

Basically its down to you own imaginantion and what you think would look good on a particular miniature.
Most mini manufacturers don't have a specific set of colours or colour scheme for each mini, except where aremies are involved.
GW & Privateerr Press use specific colours for their armies , but painters who choose to differ are often the ones whose work stands out th emost.
Have a look through the Galleries and look at the highest scoring miniatures and see how many of them are individual treatments of colour schemes.

Oh and FreeHand is a term used for decorating clothing and banners when there is no sculpted detail. So items like stripes, lines, flower patterns, icons celtic knots and pictograms are all done by the brush in the same manner as you would draw on paper.

 

[MAXXxxx]

one small warning about the "Kheris" mini. I's a prepainted plastic mini.
The base color and I think 1 shade is already on it, but not all the moldlines are correctly removed --> need to do that and repaint the base color at the changed parts.
Also if you decide the paint is too thick then stripping it is a pain in the a** because of the material.

Of course you could try repriming it after removing the moldlines, but current paint + primer may hide all the details.

As for the other minis:
you are always completely free to decide on a color-scheme you'd like. Even if the minis is painted for example blue (like the first mini, the hatchling) you could decide, that you'd like a green/red/purple or even a metallic dragon.

 

[lyko]

It's getting closer..
I've tried to take all your advice in to account. I will place following order (miniaturemarket) if you don't see anything missing. I will list the items I will try to get at a local store below my shopping cart.
Thanks again, I'm really new when it comes to craft hobbies.

Order from Miaturemarket (order not placed yet):

• Vallejo Game: Black Ink
• Vallejo Model: Flat White
• Vallejo Model: Flat Black
• Vallejo Game: Parasite Brown
• Vallejo Game: Bloody Red
• Vallejo Game: Bald Moon Yellow
• Vallejo Game: Mutation Green
• Vallejo Model: Deep Sky Blue
• Vallejo Model: Royal Purple
• Vallejo Model: Olive
• Army Painter Wargamer Brush: Monster and Regiment (I just would like to try the Wargamer brushes, thus will order two)

• 	Chronoscope 50121 Dr. Voodoo, Super Villain
  	Dark Heaven 3381 Satheras, Elf Warlock
  	Dark Heaven Legends 3651 Storm Dragon Hatchling (NewArrival)
  	Dark Heaven 3200 Benedikt, Evil Warrior
  	Chronoscope 50289 Hound of Tindalos
  	Dark Heaven 3614 Eregris Darkfathom, Sea Priest

Items I'll try to get from local stores (Vancouver BC in case anyone knows a good place):

• Synthetic Brushes
• Self healing cutting mat (no clue who could have those)
• Pin Vice (not a clue where I could get it either)
• Cork (to build something to hold miniatures for painting)
• Blue Tack
• Sandpaper
• Craft knife and files
• Wet palette (will make one)

I'm contemplating about getting these items from Army Painter as well as I don't think I'll get them for much cheaper at local stores:

	Army Painter Precision Hobby Knife	$5.24
	Army Painter Miniature and Model Drill	$7.49
	Army Painter Miniature and Model Files	$4.49
	Army Painter Precision Side Cutters	7.49$

 

[lyko]

Alright. I got my shopping list together. I do have one last question before I start my shopping trip.
Do I need washes at all, or are washes only used to get the job done as quick as possible? I'm painting only, I don't use the miniature for actual table tops. Thus I'd rather have quality than quantity.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Hobby shops in Vancouver BC

http://www.greatervancouverhotels.com/city-pages/hobbies.htm

A quick read Suggests that Drexoll Games & Imperial Hobbies may be your best options to "pop in and look around".
Either one could have a painting group as well.

Oh and the pinvice is the modelling drill.

 

[Yuggoth]

Washes can also be used for higher quality painting if you apply it selectively and not all over the mini. but I would not say they are a must have. maybe select a single wash (a reddish brown might come handy for rust streaks or shading skin) to try it out?

 

[lyko]

You guys are amazing!
@Dragonsearch; thanks for the link. Drexoll Games is only 5 minutes from my place! *Excited*

 

[MAXXxxx]

Do I need washes at all, or are washes only used to get the job done as quick as possible? I'm painting only, I don't use the miniature for actual table tops. Thus I'd rather have quality than quantity.

not really, one darker reddish-brown can be useful, but can be substituted with normal paints thinned enough.

Also if I try to paint for quality AND I use a wash after the basecoat I always seem to redo that part effectively giving me double-work (basically go back to basecoat and start over). Even if I don't have to rebasecoat, at the end it looks like it was an extra unneeded step.

 

[Trevor]

Actually, the following works well:
Undercoat white, wash with a dark brown or black (the GW washes are good), then start on your colours. The wash makes it easier to see the detail and where one part ends and another begins. It also gives you instant dark lining. For the colours: basecolour, darker wash, highlight can work quite well.