The 'Ethics' of Post Production

[montka]

Hi,

I am concerned my post production skills might land me in hot water when selling figures.

A few alterations to the levels, brightness and contrast seem to make the difference between a photo that doesn't do justice to the mini - indistinct detail, lower than desired light levels etc
and an image that is more rich and intense than reality.

See my attached photos. The first is quite close to the actual colours of the models, but doesn' t do them justice at all.

I am starting to realize that a computer screen cannot fairly represent a real model; it is always an 'interpretation' if you will.

Not to mention I paint under a daylight lamp worth £110; under a sixtywatt in someone's bedroom it's never going to be the same.

Is there any way I can protect myself from negative feedback and criticism. Or am I worrying unduly?
Does everyone who uses preproduction end up with more intensity than real life? I visited Nottingham eavy metal museum and they seem to have the same thing going on. Both photos and reality beautiful but in different ways. I am concerned I am taking my own work from average to great via GIMP2...

 

[Einion]

Ah, thorny issue!

Generally I think that photos rarely do justice to the paintwork and in other ways they tend to fall down too, so within reason a mini will tend to look better when viewed in the flesh.

Is there any way I can protect myself from negative feedback and criticism. Or am I worrying unduly?

You're probably not worrying unduly - some people are knobheads. But even for people who aren't, they may not realise that the photo won't match what the model looks like when held up in front of their eyes.

This sort of thing is obviously a balancing act - you want the stuff to look as good as possible, while not looking too good - but FWIW I would tend to go with the 'less is more' idea here, as any obvious enhancement is not likely to win favour with a buyer.

Einion

 

[funnymouth]

looks pretty similar if you ask me, doesn't seem to dramatically change the quality of the paintwork. virtually everyone does some amount of post-production, but its usually limited to adjusting levels. i try not to mess with my pics much at all, but there will be differences merely because of the change in medium. some amount of fiddling is accepted (even expected), even so far as to paste in backgrounds (which i refuse to do), so i wouldn't sweat it. small changes like this are unlikely to have an impact on the mini, unless the pics are truly dreadful, and even irl a mini can look much different in differing lighting/environmental conditions. the line is firmly drawn at the point of touch-ups or other major changes (color balance, etc). dont do it.

if you're really worried, get a kick ass top of the line light tent made, an amazing camera, and take pics you wont have to adjust. even then, the mini wont look the same as it does to the naked eye (relativistic perspective).

 

[montka]

Thanks Einion,
If anyone has an opinion on my shots then please let me know.

 

[montka]

Thanks funnymouth, that's a big relief to hear!

the line is firmly drawn at the point of touch-ups. dont do it.

Don't need to

 

[supervike]

I think you are unduly worried. At least in this particular case.

 

[nels0nmac]

Echoing Vike I think you don't need to worry. There doesn't appear to be that much difference between the pics, the second is a bit brighter and the colours seem to be a bit richer but not to the extent where it would be easy to tell that the image has been doctored.
Personally my PP comes down to altering the light level and pasting in a backdrop. I did try to do without the pasting by taking photos with a printed backdrop but they never came out quite right and always looked a bit messy, so now I use a neutral background for the photo and then P.Shop in one later. I also try and get fairly large images so that people can see the quality of the brushwork. If it looks good when it's 80mm+ on screen then they should be happy when it's 28mm in their hand.

 

[freakinacage]

make them as close to how they look irl. bear in mind that monitors vary quite a lot

another vote for 'unduly worried'

 

[Beelzebrush]

I'd say unduly worried too. They'll probably look completely different on other peoples monitors anyway.

You could always add a brief disclaimer... '...whilst every care is taken to ensure that the photographs accurately show the colours and detail of the painting, there may be slight differences in colour depending on the set-up of your monitor.... etc.... etc...' You could always offer to send higher resolution photographs if anyone asks. At the end of the day, you are trying to sell something, so you need to make it look as attractive (and accurate) as possible.

 

[Shawn R. L.]

One thing that shocked me a while back was when I had posted a piece from home, proceeded to another location and looked at the same image from another computer. TOTALLY different look on the other machine/monitor.

 

[Einion]

One thing that shocked me a while back was when I had posted a piece from home, proceeded to another location and looked at the same image from another computer. TOTALLY different look on the other machine/monitor.

Yeah, it's really quite amazing just how much difference there can be from one monitor to another. It's even worse if you do something on a calibrated Mac and then look at it on the average Windows machine, where a perfectly reasonable image can look like it was taken with half the lights turned off.

Einion

 

[Shawn R. L.]

I gave up fretting over having the perfect image for everyone. If it looks pretty close to the real thing on my machine, good enough. The rest is out of my hands.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Hi,

I am concerned my post production skills might land me in hot water when selling figures.
Its Not something which is an easy matter to deal with IF you have a minimum of consideration for your customers. By your very question you are showing that you have that consideration and kudos to you for being honest about it.

Is there any way I can protect myself from negative feedback and criticism. Or am I worrying unduly?
Yes a very simple means. Take a strip of Plasticard/Styrene sheet, Prime it white. Then paint Four equal sized blocks of Blood red, Goblin Green Ultramarines Blue and Sunburst Yellow, label them appropriatley. Photograph your miniatures with this colour chart beside them. Customers will then see the accuracy of the miniature(s) against known paints.

...............

 

[Tanhausen]

That refrence pallet suggestion is really good!

 

[Avelorn]

brill idea Mike!

Miniatures won't look the same in different lighting conditions, especially if you paint a lightsource on the smaller scales. So if someone would for example see one of my miniatures facing away from a window with the light coming from underneath... it's a recipe for disaster. Well at least it won't look that good. This issue is also increased by the fact that it is easy to forget defining the shadows enough when painting with a regular desktop lamp from above. You are fooled because the lamp helps defining the shadows for you.

But in general it's actually one of the benefits of not painting very realistically and subtle. I've compared many of the miniatures in my collection and the works of more realistic or subtle painters suffer more from how you light them then others. The miniatures that suffer the least in my collection are the work done by eavy metal painters or in that style. They tend to look almost as great regardless how you view them.

I think many painters have collectively become aware of the problem. Judging my older miniatures from a wellknown painter to the newer for example there is a definite difference in better defined shadows. Nowadays I am too struggling to get the best of both worlds as I am aware the issue.

 

[xscd]

Unduly Worried--Wonderful Work

Hi, I am concerned my post production skills might land me in hot water when selling figures. A few alterations to the levels, brightness and contrast seem to make the difference between a photo that doesn't do justice to the mini ...

I think you may be unduly worried. Your work is wonderful, and due to technical limitations no camera can capture the entire dynamic and color range present in your pieces (and nature) and perceived by the human eye. Post-processing of images can help bring back some of the character lost in any photo and can help compensate for the loss of the third dimension. If I were to open a photo such as yours in the Gimp, I would personally probably use at least Curves, Hue-Saturation-Brightness and a very conservative Unsharp Mask among other tools to help bring the photo more in line with life. Great work!

 

[montka]

Agree with what you're saying about different monitors. I spent some time on my photos messing with the levels to get the backgrounds white and the colours nice. I looked at the photos on my parents' monitor this evening and found the backgrounds to my shots either grey or blue on their display? Could someone kindly check my auction photos look ok or not?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330530699759&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Thank you very much, really appreciate it!

 

[xscd]

... the backgrounds to my shots either grey or blue on their display? Could someone kindly check my auction photos ...

My monitor has been roughly calibrated for neutral color display and digital graphic work, using visual calibration tools (no fancy electronic calibrators). The photo of your (very well painted!) work at ebay has a medium sky-blue background on my monitor.

Monitor calibration websites, with advice and calibration graphics

• http://epaperpress.com/monitorcal/index.html
• http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html
• http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/
• http://www.displaycalibration.com/

Best wishes--

 

[montka]

Thanks for the tip old chap. I had no idea how much stress was being caused by my monitor till I adjusted it. Recommended therapy!
I am becoming indebted to the CMON community. Sooner or later someone's gonna turn up with an invoice for my soul...

 

[nels0nmac]

Could someone kindly check my auction photos look ok or not?

The background colours look white on my monitor, and the rest of the photos look very nice too. Most of the monitors that I have looked at when viewing minis have on the whole looked the same as what I see on my monitor at home..... perhaps because it's the straight out of the box settings?!?