Why I detest plastic minis

[yxalitis]

Not sure the general CMON attitude, so I'll either get a warm hearty round of agreeable replies, or a nice hot toasting (probably a bit of both, knowing the internetz)...

But I despise the new wave of plastic minis!!

Not resin, nonono, the injection moulded monstrosities inflicted upon us by the likes of Games Workshop.

There, I've said it!

I was >< this close to buying some Cryx warjacks, until I found out they were all plastic, dodged a bullet with that one!

Now, I know what the plastic supported will say:

"oh, but you have to try one, they're good"

I have, they're rubbish

"But they're cheaper"

Maybe, but I hate to say it, anyone who knows anything about manufacturing plastic will tell you the plastic minis should be VASTLY cheaper, not just by a few dollars, plastic products are vastly cheaper to mass-produce.
Yes, there is the cost of the initial master, but that cost also exists for metal minis.

But that's not the real reason i don't like them.
They have no hard details!!

Compare, if you will, a GW Trygon, to an admittedly expensive Forgeworld Resin mini.

The spikes are all soft, and squiggy, lacking any ability to form a sharp edge, or fine point.

It's almost like the plastic can only reproduce a certain level of detail, because that's the problem entirely.

Now, if I want a model F-22 raptor, or Millennium Falcon, or what not, sure, give me plastic!
But when I am painting a figure that's only 2" tall...well, I want to see not just the teeth, but the fine serrations on the back of the teeth, armour should have fine cracks and wear marks, skin should show delicate scars, folds due to muscle or fat, swords covered with a fine filigree.

Yes, I know, these plastic models are the stuff people use for gaming, they need to be lighter, tougher, and cheaper.

But for that...why not just buy pre-painted minis?

Yes, of course, I know it's all economics, it's why hard to find a product actually made from real leather, and why Japanese cars are cheaper the European cars...

But damn it, something's missing in this world, and it's the ability to stand up and say NO to poorer quality products just so some multi-national can increase their profit margins...

So, how's your day going?

 

[TrystanGST]

I can certainly see your point. The plastic minis have gotten better, but will not be able to compete with metal or resin in terms of detail.

So if you want fine detail for painting, get a resin mini. If you want cheap (relative, of course) robust minis for gaming, get the plastic guys.

GW makes mass produced figures for gaming with. I brought my recently finished KD resin figure over to a gaming session to show off, and my friends were afraid to TOUCH it, for fear of breaking bits. Not exactly what you want for the tabletop market.

 

[INFERNO]

I still dont know whats your goal? Altho ure absolutely right in your statements i think, that there is something You are missing. Warhammer (tm)(R)(C) (_*_) /40k /Privater press stuff etc are all battle GAMES! All of the products are made for GAMERS. Painting is just one (minor to be honest) side of the hobby. If u want to force painters to boycott plastic products it won't get anywhere. GW will say OK as long as hardcore painters quantity won't reach gamers quantity lvl

 

[cassar]

resins nice...as for the metal stuff euch! never liked em pain in the onions if you ask me.

 

[airhead]

... anyone who knows anything about manufacturing plastic will tell you the plastic minis should be VASTLY cheaper, not just by a few dollars, plastic products are vastly cheaper to mass-produce.
Yes, there is the cost of the initial master, but that cost also exists for metal minis.
...Now, if I want a model F-22 raptor, or Millennium Falcon, or what not, sure, give me plastic!
But when I am painting a figure that's only 2" tall...well, I want to see not just the teeth, but the fine serrations on the back of the teeth, armour should have fine cracks and wear marks, skin should show delicate scars, folds due to muscle or fat, swords covered with a fine filigree.

The setup for plastic minis is WAY more expensive than for metal, not just the molds, but the molding machinery itself. This does not lead to short runs of items. You want to make 1000's of pieces with a plastic injection molder to make it worthwhile. It does not surprise me that the plastics cost as much as the metals.

As to detail, if I can get a 1/24th model of a car and have all the detail of the tuck and roll upholstery, lug bolts and Fresnel lenses on the headlights, why can't GW get the same level of detail between their plastics and metals?

 

[freakinacage]

i disagree that plastic doesn't get the detail. the problem is that it is only in certain directions. when used properly, plakky can be brill. not ideal for figures though. better for tech/inorganic stuff

 

[Master of fact]

Ok sir you are correct in the not as much detail. BUT i challenge you to build a spacemarine Thunderfire cannon and come back to us. Mine ended up sailing across the room as it was an utter bastard to build.

I like plastic for the ease conversion AND if your handy with greenstuff your flying.

 

[Shawn R. L.]

The setup for plastic minis is WAY more expensive than for metal, not just the molds, but the molding machinery itself. This does not lead to short runs of items. You want to make 1000's of pieces with a plastic injection molder to make it worthwhile. It does not surprise me that the plastics cost as much as the metals.

An injection mold costs $25000 to $150000 can produce 14¢ parts.

As to detail, if I can get a 1/24th model of a car and have all the detail of the tuck and roll upholstery, lug bolts and Fresnel lenses on the headlights, why can't GW get the same level of detail between their plastics and metals?

I think one reason that the detail is so wonky is that they are trying to do too much with too few molds. If you notice, some of the detail has a sort of 'swept back' look to it. An ammo pouch that's molded on a fig. for instance. It's supposed to be sort of a box shape but the back side, instead of being square will be sloped back so it can be taken out of the mold. It would look better to make it a seperate piece to be glued on but there is where the price goes up for another mold.

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[Einion]

A lot of the hate for plastic is completely justified because of exactly what it's for, the material as well as how it's done. What's sad about that is that we're now in an era when plastic moulding has never been better, so if they cared to produce good stuff they could. Part of this may simply be that they don't have the in-house expertise (this is not a pass, they could buy it in) but bottom line is it seems to stem from the fact that they just don't give a damn.

Einion

 

[finn17]

I'm not convinced about the argument that these are primarily 'gaming pieces' either. We'll never know the exact figures, but I bet that at least as many minis are sold to painters and collectors as to gamers. I can't remember the last time I saw a game being played at my local independent retailer. At weekends and school holidays he has at least 50-100 people in his gaming area and ALL of them are playing cards.

 

[airhead]

Finn, you just pointed out the 600 pound gorilla that nobody wants to talk about. CCG's have changed the gaming industry as we know it.

Game shops/hobby shops have had to adapt or perish in this new market.

Much as the buggy whip industry, the mom & pop grocery store, etc.

D&D adapted by cheap plastic pre-painted minis. Yes, you can still get better quality metal minis (Reaper, etc.) but the price is much higher per unit.

GW is looking to adapt as well. Either cheaper plastic minis, or smaller armies (1000 point norm instead of 1500), or some other tactic to maintain in a contest for disposable income.

 

[INFERNO]

I'm not convinced about the argument that these are primarily 'gaming pieces' either. We'll never know the exact figures, but I bet that at least as many minis are sold to painters and collectors as to gamers. I can't remember the last time I saw a game being played at my local independent retailer. At weekends and school holidays he has at least 50-100 people in his gaming area and ALL of them are playing cards.

You are forgeting the fact that gamers need armies but painters/collectors single miniatures. Ask those ppl at your local hobby center which of them got the full army even if they are not playing battle games any more, and which is buying miniatures just to paint them and how often.

 

[finn17]

Collectors generally want complete sets of things so will often have much larger potential armies than gamers. Painters might not have the same quirks as gamers and probably wont buy things like assault squads and other cannon fodder but will likely buy 'character' figures of whatever genre and these are generally much more expensive.

I've never played a game in my life, but have several 'full armies'. I'd need a van if I wanted to field my full Blood Angel or Ork minis and I doubt I'd find many gamers who be able to match what I put on the table. They'd also have to explain the rules to me

 

[TrystanGST]

Finn, you just pointed out the 600 pound gorilla that nobody wants to talk about. CCG's have changed the gaming industry as we know it.

Game shops/hobby shops have had to adapt or perish in this new market.

Much as the buggy whip industry, the mom & pop grocery store, etc.

D&D adapted by cheap plastic pre-painted minis. Yes, you can still get better quality metal minis (Reaper, etc.) but the price is much higher per unit.

GW is looking to adapt as well. Either cheaper plastic minis, or smaller armies (1000 point norm instead of 1500), or some other tactic to maintain in a contest for disposable income.

Well they can start by bringing their prices in line. Not raising them more. At this rate they're going to be squad sized battles, as no one will be able to field a full 1500 point "army".

 

[armornv]

A lot of the hate for plastic is completely justified because of exactly what it's for, the material as well as how it's done. What's sad about that is that we're now in an era when plastic moulding has never been better, so if they cared to produce good stuff they could. Part of this may simply be that they don't have the in-house expertise (this is not a pass, they could buy it in) but bottom line is it seems to stem from the fact that they just don't give a damn.

Einion

I completely agree. Take for instance any of the current Dragon or Tamiya tank kits. The plastic is a much higher quality(IMO) and the crispy-ness of the detail and as well as the quality of the pieces. I know, a tank is not a figure...BUT, Dragon does also make figures that are quite nice. Side note: it also amazes me that you can get a 1/35 kit with well over 400 or 500 pieces for around the same price as some of the "multi-part" plastic heroes that allow you to build a WHOLE 2 FIGURES!!! Ok...let the hating begin. I sit and read it quietly. Not interested in starting and or continuing a debate. Just expressing my opinion as lame as it may be.

 

[finn17]

Ok...let the hating begin. I sit and read it quietly. Not interested in starting and or continuing a debate. Just expressing my opinion as lame as it may be.

I think you'll be safe...

Thankfully, CMON has never been a fanboy site and opinions are like arseholes...everyone has one. I am a big fan of Citadel/Games Workshop and I doubt many of the other mini companies would exist without the input and influence citadel/GW have had in the past. Do I think they are doing the wrong thing now? Yes I do.

 

[INFERNO]

do i think they are doing the wrong thing now? Yes i do.

blasphemy!!!!!

 

[QuietiManes]

Think it's as has been said, it's not that plastics can't produce the finer details, it's that GW and PP don't produce finer details. It seems like GW chooses to do less details because they like to dumb things down the last several years. GW wants to sell simple Marines to preteens and not scare them off with 'Eavy Metal actually painting as well as they could on awesome detail minis. Or at least that's my embittered opinion on the "painter versus gamer" debate...it's neither, kiddies take the cake on that one.

Side note: it also amazes me that you can get a 1/35 kit with well over 400 or 500 pieces for around the same price as some of the "multi-part" plastic heroes that allow you to build a WHOLE 2 FIGURES!!!

That might be missing a few key details. When you buy a Warhammer or Warmachine figure, you get a game system, rules, constant tweaks and updates and revisions, something far more popular and "universal" than anything else. I know you have to pay for the rule books and all the rest of it, BUT, that's why the price is higher. Doesn't matter how cheap a game is if no one else will ever play it and the rules are not to yours or anyone else's liking.

Having said that, I think GW is overpriced! Just unfair to compare it to companies that don't create rules and run tournaments and all those extra things.

 

[yxalitis]

When you buy a Warhammer or Warmachine figure, you get a game system, rules, constant tweaks and updates and revisions.

No, you don't, you get a crappy couple of sprues, because (as you yourself then go on to say):

I know you have to pay for the rule books and all the rest of it, BUT, that's why the price is higher.

See, you contradict yourself, you pay extra to get rulebooks that you have to pay extra for anyway, so that's why it's more expensive...huh??

 

[supervike]

I like miniatures.

I much prefer metal, as they just 'feel better'. But, I buy miniatures based mostly (almost completely) on the subject matter, not the material used to make it.

Given the choice, even if slightly higher, I'll buy metal over resin or plastic.., but I just like miniatures (have i mentioned that yet?)