Mein Fury
New member
Jeez I hope not. At that point I’d rather have the 3+ armor and Speed 5. Would be ok with speed 4 and a 7/6 attack for fewer than 10 points. But would be certainly willing to work around Oakwolf’s proposed stats.
Baratheon expansions
- Thread starter Breastplatestretcher
- Start date
Jeez I hope not. At that point I’d rather have the 3+ armor and Speed 5. Would be ok with speed 4 and a 7/6 attack for fewer than 10 points. But would be certainly willing to work around Oakwolf’s proposed stats.
Ya speed 3 probably wont happen, but if they are indeed 2+ arm, i'd be very surprised if they were faster than speed 4. Unless maybe their moral is really bad, but that seems unlikely with Baratheons
Breastplatestretcher
New member
More NCU leaks, shamelessly plucked from the internet
Mein Fury
New member
I like Melisandre. 5 points is...yeesh, but it is a pretty strong ability that doesn’t require that she even take a zone to use it. So she would be a safe 3rd NCU choice, but man, unless there is at least 1 more 3-pointer for Stannis, that’s a lot of points wrapped up in NCUs. I hope Axell Florent is a 3-pointer with some kind of card draw like Eldon Estermont.
AnorexicShark
New member
ohhh mel is so cool yes!
DevlinBrightblade
New member
Mel looks a really cool NCU, and pretty cute in the picture too... 
Oakwolf
Member
When you compare her to Selyse, we can guess why the One True King failed his vow...i fully expected her to be 5pts and have such sacrifice capacity. Facing the Red Woman is scary. She'll want ways to panic the enemy...mmm how about R'hllor archers who could shoot flaming arrows giving panic tokens. I'm just adding the bits up since last summer
With Selyse giving R'hllor trait to a unit, we can guess that the new version of Stannis has something to do with all of this.
And blasted be...that ability would have been amazing in a Bolton army.
Olenna and Varys could be a silly expensive duo, but such protection has to have its price.
With Selyse giving R'hllor trait to a unit, we can guess that the new version of Stannis has something to do with all of this.
And blasted be...that ability would have been amazing in a Bolton army.
Olenna and Varys could be a silly expensive duo, but such protection has to have its price.
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AnorexicShark
New member
i think running two five pt ncu's are going to be more and more common. I mean most 4-5pt trays are pretty bad anyway in smaller games. I've been ditching them for hgar and walder recently anyway and its worked out well. You have so much stopping power to shut down your enemies moves
Mein Fury
New member
I always find the discussion of NCU count/cost vs unit count/cost pretty interesting. The 5-point NCUs are pretty awesome, and if you were going to bring a 4-pointer anyway - the most common price - then you can probably find that extra point somewhere and upgrade to a 5-pointer. So I think you're right about the whole 2 NCU thing. Maybe with the exception of NCU commander lists, 2 NCU lists will become the norm. Right now, seems plenty are running 3 of them: typically a 5pt, 4pt, 3pt, or a a 4pt 4pt 3pt combo. Given that the tactics board has 5 zones, I really think the game is setup for 2 NCUs per player with 1 zone remaining unclaimed at the end of the round. That said, some characters (like Mel) don't seem to care about zones, but unfortunately the rulebook says if all zones are taken, that NCU's actviation immediately ends. If both players bring 3 NCUs, someone's NCU gets boxed out every round then. It's probably great if this isn't you, but I assume you never have to worry about it if you just bring 2 great NCUs. So will you be trying Walder and Mel then? Walder strips a units abilities, and Mel strips its health, so I imagine you can can neuter a problem unit pretty fast with these two...On top of that, Walder needs the crown held when you're not first player, but fortunately for Baratheons, that's a zone we kind of already want.
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Breastplatestretcher
New member
Most of the hero boxes are spoiled by now, but I'm not complaining.
I wouldn't complain if they gave us a release date already though.
I wouldn't complain if they gave us a release date already though.
Mein Fury
New member
Thanks for collecting these into a single shot!
But yeah, now that they’ve revealed versions of each character in the Stannis box, it’d be nice to know how far out they are. There are a couple more heroes in the Renly set to reveal, and a few more versions of the heroes, so does that mean with weekly previews, once they run out of stuff to show, the release is going to follow just a couple weeks later, or what? Or do they not intend to preview everything before release date, keeping some of it a surprise? No one knows, and it’s a bit frustrating because of all the boxed sets previewed/releasing soon, these Baratheon sets are what the game needs most imo. Baratheons need the attention/assistance.
But yeah, now that they’ve revealed versions of each character in the Stannis box, it’d be nice to know how far out they are. There are a couple more heroes in the Renly set to reveal, and a few more versions of the heroes, so does that mean with weekly previews, once they run out of stuff to show, the release is going to follow just a couple weeks later, or what? Or do they not intend to preview everything before release date, keeping some of it a surprise? No one knows, and it’s a bit frustrating because of all the boxed sets previewed/releasing soon, these Baratheon sets are what the game needs most imo. Baratheons need the attention/assistance.
Breastplatestretcher
New member
I couldn't agree more. I'm kinda still holding out out hope that the alternate Brienne is going to be a real powerhouse, but who knows.
Mein Fury
New member
And I’m going to hold out hope that Stannis comes with a regular combat attachment version a la Daario Naharis, so I can run a different commander while still including him in my army lol. Else I may just stick with OG Stannis from the starter set and look to NCUs and attachments for support.
King_Kraken
New member
From how it looks, a lot of the Stannis-loyal attachments seem to promote just having lots of units of Wardens to survive and tough out enemy attacks while the bulk of your damage comes from your own card abilities, attachments, and NCUs...
Mein Fury
New member
Yeah with everything causing auto-wounds to you and the enemy, it’s seemingly promoting Stannis lists that favor higher unit count over smaller elite lists. Wardens make the most sense given their cost:durability ratio. They don’t get easier to kill as they take wounds, they just get worse at attacking, but between the auto-wounds you’re inflicting on both parties and the warden weak sticks, it probably makes up for the smaller attack dice pools you’ll be throwing. You’ll feel it less as the enemy gets whittled down to ineffectiveness as time goes on. At least I hope that’s how it works...as it could be a delicate dance to toe the damage line to make sure your units aren’t wiped before the enemy’s. Though it does seem to fit with how they described the Baratheon faction’s attrition-based play-style. Warden spam lists don’t sound all that fun to build/play though. I guess I would be inclined to start with at least 2 or 3 and then work in a cutthroat unit and a stormcrow unit for a little more punch/body count. Hard to say. The stag knights are a real conundrum here, because their ability/stat-line is like a perfect fit for Stannis’s self-wounding tricks, but they’re also expensive enough that they prevent you from potentially taking another unit entirely. And to your point, I would think Stannis needs the bodies.
By contrast to Stannis, Renly will take the healing approach to attrition adding wounds back to his units as they are removed. So I think Renly will work better with elite units as he has multiple ways to keep them healthy.
Breastplatestretcher
New member
Two new units for both subfactions both supposedly 7pts
Fun fact: Stannis's viability is receding faster than his hairline.
Fun fact: Stannis's viability is receding faster than his hairline.
Oakwolf
Member
Yeah...saw that on the FB group...i mean, my loyalty will always go to Stannis, but comparing the two, i don't know...is it me? It might be that the grass looks greener where roses grow...
It's like the Rh'llor troops want to be killed (and that fits with current Stannis cards who favor self-sacrifice), but at 7pts, that's a harsh bill to pay. That being said, these troops are probably mostly made to go with the box 1 Stannis, and not the starter set's version. They also seem like a good match with Axel Florent.
If these two troops collided, what do you expect the outcome to be?
I figure that's why Stannis enjoyed Melisandre's presence (and other reasons).
It's like the Rh'llor troops want to be killed (and that fits with current Stannis cards who favor self-sacrifice), but at 7pts, that's a harsh bill to pay. That being said, these troops are probably mostly made to go with the box 1 Stannis, and not the starter set's version. They also seem like a good match with Axel Florent.
If these two troops collided, what do you expect the outcome to be?
I figure that's why Stannis enjoyed Melisandre's presence (and other reasons).
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Mein Fury
New member
It's not just you. We all see it. The Renly stuff is greasing all the right gears in the Baratheon machine. The 3-point Eldon NCU is a huge addition, and Cortnay Penrose is a great looking NCU Commander. I'm surprised he wasn't a field commander honestly; seems like a weird choice for an NCU. But it works out nicely for them, as they will be able run 3 NCUs for the low low price of 6 points; amazing value for the abilities. And almost universally, one doesn't have to perform mental gymnastics to see how nicely the Renly stuff synergizes with both Renly's healing theme and the Baratheon retribution theme. All of his units appear to be designed with a solid vision in mind for play-style. These new floral knights continue the trend we've been seeing. They fit in just so very well here thematically, growing stronger the longer they stick around. That's *supposedly* what the Baratheons are all about. That's how they were advertised at least...
Then there's Stannis...the conflict of faith within his army, and perhaps within his heart, has been ported over to the game intact. So it's like we're dealing with 2 distinct mini-factions at odds with each other, set within a sub-faction of a greater faction. The way the R'hllor abilities play with other R'hllor abilities feels like we're being forced with a decision to convert to the red god and double down on those units, or go traditional; it's almost *too* thematic in that sense. On the other hand, what the units/cards actually do mechanically, doesn't seem to match up very well with the theme. Everywhere you look, Stannis loyal units are causing wounds to themselves. Why? Stannis wasn't that into the sacrifices. Remember the "pray harder" line? Using a sacrifice mechanic as a powerful once-per-round ability provided by characters who are all about sacrifices makes total sense to me. But then Devan causes wounds? Um, ok, you're losing me a little. Then we see Andrew Estermont causes wounds? Yeah, no. Too much. If it were up to me, I would limit a sacrifice mechanic to Melisandre and maybe Selyse. For the former, I would actually prefer if she had a powerful once per game mechanic ("kiss of fire") that brings one of your units back from the dead, rather than wound the enemy.
I know the game is heavily abstracted, but in a timeline in which Renly is still around, why would Stannis be so nonchalant about removing soldiers from his relatively small army? (the ASOIAF rulebook even states he has a small army) One would think he'd be more conservative with how he utilizes the troops at his disposal. Renly was the one with the massive army, and yet, all of the sacrifice and destroyed-unit abilities require that Stannis lists have a higher unit count. Each wound would be a far greater loss if only taking a handful of elite units. On the other hand, Renly's healing abilities, cheap way to run 3 NCUs, and the new Rose Knights, make running smaller elite lists with Renly an attractive option. It just seems like it should be reversed. Renly had the men and the resources, Stannis did not. Then looking at their new commander versions, where Renly can't be influenced and Stannis can't become panicked, I also feel this should be reversed. Stannis is the uncompromising, unyielding one and Renly has the "boldness and courage." Strange to me.
As for the new R'hllor Faithful. I was pretty excited about the unit at first, until someone pointed out that their ability to cause -1 to a panic test required them to retain high ranks. Mechanically, this bothers me more than their high price and low armor. Given all the Stannis self-inflicted wounds, what Stannis really needed was a unit that like the Stag Knights (but cheaper), didn't care so much about losing wounds, or would somehow benefit from losing wounds. The Faithful work best at full ranks like almost every other unit. I don't get this. If the attack line leveled out like 8/6/6 or their ability got stronger as they lost ranks then it would jive better. As it is, they're like a 7 point Cutthroat unit with high morale that will do its best work when built into R'hllor specific lists. If you don't want to go full R'hllor with them, then you're missing out on one of their two abilities (surprise, another destroyed unit ability. hopefully it can combo with destroyed unit cards). So while you *can* take them outside of a R'hllor list, all of these affiliation specific abilities are really telling you what to do, and how to build your lists, and I'm not a fan of that.
