A Positive View on Games Workshop

[Ebonbuddha]

Its funny. But the prices you are talking about are when the gouging got really bad. Back in the day you use to get a whole unit for a little over $12 US. Then the 90s came and the prices started their steady climb. You use to also be able to get two Land Raiders for under $30.

I like when the \"new guys\" talk.

Originally posted by mattsterbenz
Well, before you reply to this, hear me out. Take what I have to say, and really think about where you stand.

Games Workshop: Everyone in the miniatures buisness knows this company. Most use their paints, play their games, paint their models, COMPLAIN ABOUT THEIR PRICES. Well im here to say it\'s completley fair, and has not really changed in the past several years. Also in comparison to other companies, competitive prices.

I DO NOT WORK FOR GW, JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND.

For those who want to know, the following older prices are from White Dwarf #222, and the new prices are from my store\'s product shelves.

Lets take for example, some Imperial Guard heavy weapon teams. Older price: $9.99. New Price: 3 for $30.00. What is the difference? The older set had 3, 1-piece models. Completley static, no customising possible without converting. The new ones: TONS of plastic sprues, several extra heavy weapons, every model in several pieces to create different poses. No difference in price per model, Huge difference in quality.

Next example: the imperial guard sentinal. That old metal one is ass ugly. Also $24.99. The new plastic one: SAME PRICE!!! Huge difference in quality, no difference in price.

Now, the space marine tactical squad: $35.00 (thats $3.50 per model) with tons of extra bitz, optional heavy weapon/assault weapons, purity seals, etc... The 2nd edition blister of 2 metal marines (no extra bits, no posable pieces) was $7.99! ($4 per model) Now that looks to me like a LOWER PRICE, for the newer, better, plastic models. What is the whining about?

Some might say: \"Oh plastic is cheaper, the model sets shouldn\'t be as expensive as metal.\" My arguement is, whats the difference? Heavier models? No personalizing your model\'s pose with metal? The plastic kits have the most customizing possible in a model, aside from sculpting one yourself. Other companies charge more, yet for some reason GW gets picked on.

Lets take Rackham for example: This goblin box on the wall next to me (based on the current exchange rate) is $32.00 for 8 models. At $4 a piece, thats a higher rate than the space marines, and a much higher rate than the fantasy core boxes (16-24 models for $35.00).

Recently, the paint cost went up to $3 per jar. So many people bawled that im surprised a riot didn\'t break out. This is the same cost as Vallejo and Reaper master series paints. Games workshop paint is thicker, does not settle into 5 layers like vallejo does, so it does not need to be shaken for 3 minutes per color, and the flip top bottles are the best for easy access.

My point is, there is no huge difference in prices. Stop saying \"8 years ago i could get things so much cheaper!!!\" Thats a lie. Games workshop is top of the notch, has great gaming systems, and customer service that can\'t be beat (Hobby centers offer free tips, great looking tables, etc... for no fee, other than having a GW produced army to play on the tables).

My point is, there is nothing wrong with games workshop. I am sick and tired of people shouting about prices, when there has been little to no change in price over the past 10 years. Stop complaining, they are a great company. They have far better hobby support than any other company, and are truly a great promoter of the hobby.

I am not trying to start a fight, I am just saying there is nothing to complain about, there is only praise for the company for doing far better than any other in the buisness.

-Matt Sterbenz

P.S. Games Workshop, keep doing what you are doing, promote the hobby, and keep the spirit of wargaming alive.

 

[Avelorn]

@steelcult: jeeez. And I thought the weather could be bad over here..

GW have some good things going on. I think the general level of their sculpting has increased (with some very notable exeptions) and I do like the new plastics with all the add-on bits. I don\'t need to mention the bad things, do I.

I thought I drop a line about the paint. It\'s much about personal preference but I use Vallejo GC MC, Citadel, the older citadel. From my experience I say Vallejo Model Color is the best paint I\'ve tried and it\'s more economical too, but it\'s not as suitable for gaming miniatures I suppose. But still the Citadel colors holds up pretty well with some must-have colors and better metallics. I like citadel better then both Vallejo GC and the older citadel (now coat d\'arm) even though GC really complements citadel with some versions of their colors that covers better. Coat d\'arms was (and probably is) so inconsistent.. some batches is gold and other\'s crap. And I like the matter finish of the new Citadels and Vallejo. But the Coat d\'arm inks is the sh*t.

 

[Infidel Castro]

The biggest gripe on my part is not being able to go into the GW shop in town and buy something stupid like a Halfling Druid with a cannon. A silly example certainly, but just to be able to buy ONE figure, a fun little trinket to paint for the sake of painting. Citadel would produce some wonderful one-offs and, as a painter, that\'s exactly what I like. I\'m not going to bother to search through catalogues for the old classics when i reckon they have a responsibility to cater for some old-timers who filled their pockets in the past. The hobby has moved away from intelligence and humour to en masse bulk shite. I\'m glad to see WHFRP has resurfaced now, but will we ever be able to buy a Dwarf Alchemist from GW? A Halfling Ratcatcher? Bullshit will we. I love what Necromunda and Mordheim offer figures-wise, but GW doesn\'t give much of a toss about those brands. It wants bulk purchases and cash in its pocket.

 

[Legacy Account]

Dunno where all this 25% increase cack has come from. In 1999/2000, boxes of plastic troops cost £12. They now cost £18. That\'s a 50% increase in 6 years when the average inflation rate has been 2.5%. By rights, they should only cost around £14!

And when I went in there on Saturday (yes, I admit it, I went into a GW...) to get the latest WD with the GD winners booklet in it, I got harrassed by some numpty staff member who incessantly tried to sell me stuff. He followed me all around the shop gabbing away. I had to tell him to go away in the end. I hate that sort of thing. I must have looked like some drippy teeny pleb.....

 

[james sequeira]

my fault i wasnt counting percentage rise from the past 6yrs

 

[Bobinator]

@Spacemunkie.

No mate you didnt look plebby, at the end of the day they got to ram the sale pitch down your throat in the vain hope of pestering you into buying something. Nobody likes be chased around the shop by some oik with a odour control problem and your right to tell him to get stuffed. Its sad that they have to resort to these tactics to sell something, I find it offensive as a veteran to be told whats great and new, which things are mega hard and shooty and what would be a great buy, I can read and do have a brain so I\'ll decide what I want and not be harangued into buying their latest box of toss.

 

[petey]

I dont mind about blisters etc. I just see that to make an army, you need a lot of models. Most of these models will be plastic. And the plastic regiment/squad sets are increasing in price too much. I just used to love getting 20 Skaven for £10, now that its £18, it just seems a little steep. :~(

 

[Bobinator]

Originally posted by mattsterbenz

Originally posted by Bobinator

Like I said its all about having this huge turn over of short term gamers, they dont give a monkeys how long their in the hobby for or how good a painter gamer they become as long as their sucked in and bled dry while their in is all that matters, they couldnt give a wet fart that their pretty much robbing the paper round money out their pockets as long as they make heaps of money.

Bullshit. Most of the people have been playing for many years (the owner of my store since rouge trader) and the kids who play are excited to get their miniatures, despite the \"rip off\" that is actually the same price as other companies, if not, cheaper.

Bullshit yourself matey, you cant tell me that GW dont over charge for the gumf the knock out, 50 quid for two dreadnoughts! that feels like a swindle to me and if £50 aint a lot to you, you\'ve got more money than sense.

 

[Evil Dave]

I\'m a 40K old timer.
I don\'t play anymore. None of the guys that used to be in our local league (around 10 guys) play anymore.
It\'s not that the armies are too expensive, it\'s that the armies are not worth the enjoyment factor.
Simply put the cost/fun ratio has changed.

That and the really fun games that GW have put out are no longer supported.
Space Hulk, Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Mordenheim, Warhammer Fatasy RPG, they all shared one thing in common, they only needed a finite amount of figures.

Look at 40K through the years and you will see in almost every codex the points cost of troops drop, requiring you to buy more figures to get up to the 2000 pts. for a tournament.

 

[Dragonsreach]

So let me get this right Matt, you ae saying that there\'s no price difference between this :

Dwarf Lord with great weapon
Priced at £6.00

And

Reaper\'s Magara Firetongue
Selling online in the USA at 4.49 USD = 2.52633 GBP (and I bought over here for £3.00)

When both models are exactly the same size, and I think that the Reaper model has the edge on detail.

I think your viewpoint is slightly \'skewed\'.

9To be honest if someone were to use the Reaper Figure in a WFB game with me, I\'d have no problem in accepting her as a Runelord.

 

[Dark Seraphim]

Originally posted by Evil Dave

1) That and the really fun games that GW have put out are no longer supported.
Space Hulk, Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Mordenheim, Warhammer Fatasy RPG

2) Look at 40K through the years and you will see in almost every codex the points cost of troops drop, requiring you to buy more figures to get up to the 2000 pts. for a tournament.

Id like to respond to this post first

1) Your wrong, all thoes games are still supported in one way or the other. All the minis can still be had from Mail Order, you can convert your own minis from the thousands of other minis around. It\'s all about dedication and if you can get people togeather to play just the game you want.

2) Yes, the points have changed, and yes some of them need more minis, but actually some armies need less minis to make an army. Further more, the tournament limits have been altered to fit the new points, so now you have 1500 points battles instead of 2000...

Games Workshop has changed, that is for sure. But considering it\'s about 20 years old now, I would say it\'s a fair change. Also the quality as the original post said, have changed massivly.. There is no doubt that what we are seeing, changes in the price, are evolutionary and frankly, thoes who wine about it are living in the past..

I have worked for Games Workshop for 4 years in the past, and would gladly work for them again.

 

[mattsterbenz]

i never said that. Reaper is obviously cheaper, when comparing a character blister. Like i said earlier, buying an army, the core is really where you save. Sure some models are cheaper than GW characters, GW has all that hobby support to pay for. Hell, that reaper model is cheaper than all those Rackham models.

 

[Jericho]

I can\'t believe people still talk about how offended they get when a GW staffer walks up to them and tries to help them out. It\'s not a \"harass people until they buy things\" type strategy, it\'s a simple reflection of the fact that most people who enter the store don\'t know what the heck they\'re looking at. If you leave people like that alone, they will often just wander out still not knowing what the heck GW is all about.

So maybe there\'s a few bad employees out there... among approximately 300 retail shops worldwide that\'s gotta be 1500 staff. There\'s bound to be a few overzealous people in the bunch. But in all my years I\'ve never once witnessed staff engaging in any of the overaggressive/annoying behavior, in any of the GW stores in this part of the country.

I don\'t even know why this stuff gets posted in a thread like this anyway... aside from a slight tangent regarding mud storms, it was supposed to be about pricing was it not?

<edit>

Man 4 replies show up every time I try to type one of my own... this hasn\'t happened in a while

</edit>

 

[mattsterbenz]

Originally posted by Jericho
I can\'t believe people still talk about how offended they get when a GW staffer walks up to them and tries to help them out. It\'s not a \"harass people until they buy things\" type strategy, it\'s a simple reflection of the fact that most people who enter the store don\'t know what the heck they\'re looking at. If you leave people like that alone, they will often just wander out still not knowing what the heck GW is all about.

So maybe there\'s a few bad employees out there... among approximately 300 retail shops worldwide that\'s gotta be 1500 staff. There\'s bound to be a few overzealous people in the bunch. But in all my years I\'ve never once witnessed staff engaging in any of the overaggressive/annoying behavior, in any of the GW stores in this part of the country.

I don\'t even know why this stuff gets posted in a thread like this anyway... aside from a slight tangent regarding mud storms, it was supposed to be about pricing was it not?

<edit>

Man 4 replies show up every time I try to type one of my own... this hasn\'t happened in a while

</edit>

I agree, i went to the LA Battle bunker the day before games day, and it was one of the best experiences in a store ive ever had as a customer.

Edit: The point is, this does relate to my original post: They have great customer service. People just need to understand what Jericho said, that most people coming in know squat about the hobby.

 

[mattsterbenz]

Originally posted by Bobinator

Originally posted by mattsterbenz

Originally posted by Bobinator

Like I said its all about having this huge turn over of short term gamers, they dont give a monkeys how long their in the hobby for or how good a painter gamer they become as long as their sucked in and bled dry while their in is all that matters, they couldnt give a wet fart that their pretty much robbing the paper round money out their pockets as long as they make heaps of money.

Bullshit. Most of the people have been playing for many years (the owner of my store since rouge trader) and the kids who play are excited to get their miniatures, despite the \"rip off\" that is actually the same price as other companies, if not, cheaper.

Bullshit yourself matey, you cant tell me that GW dont over charge for the gumf the knock out, 50 quid for two dreadnoughts! that feels like a swindle to me and if £50 aint a lot to you, you\'ve got more money than sense.

What about Warmachine\'s Super heavy jack (i dont recall the name, but it\'s the biggest they make) Its about the size of a dreadnought, for $50. That does not even sound like a swindle to me. Why dont you complain about that one?

Also, I dont have much money, I dont spend every dime I earn on this hobby. Think about Getting started in the game: Codex ($20) Battalion Boxed set($90-$110) Character blister ($10-$12). Thats a little over 500 points for a hell of a lot less than getting a damn x-box, let alone a couple games.

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by Dark Seraphim
1) Your wrong, all thoes games are still supported in one way or the other.

Well you use a very generous definition of \"supported.\"
Sure, you can still buy genestealers and terminators (not sure about hybrids). you can even buy some discontinued models from their catalogue.
I doubt however if you can buy replacement board tiles, replacement blip counters, replacement rules and scenerios books.
It doesn\'t count as supporting a game just because you sell parts to a different game that are compatible.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by vincegamer

Originally posted by Dark Seraphim
1) Your wrong, all thoes games are still supported in one way or the other.

Well you use a very generous definition of \"supported.\"
Sure, you can still buy genestealers and terminators (not sure about hybrids). you can even buy some discontinued models from their catalogue.
I doubt however if you can buy replacement board tiles, replacement blip counters, replacement rules and scenerios books.
It doesn\'t count as supporting a game just because you sell parts to a different game that are compatible.

Amen

 

[mattsterbenz]

Wow. Its amazing how I can post a picture of a mini in the forums and get 1 or 2 replies, and I say anything about GW and everyone becomes like those arguing crowds in South Park (\"Rabble, Rabble, Rabble!!!\")lol

 

[Dark Seraphim]

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Originally posted by vincegamer

Originally posted by Dark Seraphim
1) Your wrong, all thoes games are still supported in one way or the other.

Well you use a very generous definition of \"supported.\"
Sure, you can still buy genestealers and terminators (not sure about hybrids). you can even buy some discontinued models from their catalogue.
I doubt however if you can buy replacement board tiles, replacement blip counters, replacement rules and scenerios books.
It doesn\'t count as supporting a game just because you sell parts to a different game that are compatible.

Amen

Amen or not, the game is still supported in some way.

People find ways to deal with these things you say, like making their own boards, markers and rulers. It\'s not that hard, what would be hard would be the minis, and they are as said still supported.

Of course GW won\'t keep making old games that noone buys anymore, if you knew something about marketing it would make sense to you.

Point is, there is no sense whining as much as people do.. Things change, and you can either like it or quit gaming.

 

[finn17]

GW are dying...

They killed themselves...

Whatever actions they are taking now to try and correct the mis-management of the last decade or so is probably going to be too little and too late.

They are raising their prices IMO because their financiers have told them do do so in order to salvage as much of their investments as possible.

But don\'t take my word for it..look at the figures..

@Dark Seraphim: \"Point is, there is no sense whining as much as people do.. Things change, and you can either like it or quit gaming.\"

Or, you can go elsewhere, where there is still a spark of passion and the whole affair isn\'t just run as a cynical exercise in separating youngsters from their pocket money