Annoying Stereotypes

[ZaPhOd]

OKay, first off, I am not really mad about anything, but I am finding more and more that people are losing all form of self-imagination. I posted a pic a long time ago, of an old High Elf commander. Now I have merely used this mini as a basis for my interpretation of a Moorcock character, Dorian Hawkmoon.

http://www.coolminiornot.com/index.php?id=4619

As you can see, I have gotten some comments reflecting this.
Sturmhalo has said that Dorian is not Elven in his comment, and naturally, for me to paint a figure and call it Dorian Hawkmoon, I know this
Lets move on to BabyUnicorn\'s comment (yes, please, lets.....). Obviously, babyunicorn has know idea who Hawkmoon is... since the skin is too pale for a High Elf model...

Come on people! Have none of you ever just used a mini for a purpose other than what the package says? Is Games Workshop so stifling that they will sue me for using a High Elf model for a Man?

Funny, cause I remember a long time ago, posting pics and giving them names from my campaign or something I *actually made up*.... People would say, well that isn\'t Sergei Karvalegov, that\'s Heinrich Kemmler you sod.....

Just getting mildly annoyed is all. Now my whine session is over! Please keep in mind that not everyone paints their figures like the package, and not everyone calls them the same thing even!

By the way Sturm.... Moorcock is my favorite author

 

[vincegamer]

Nice rant. I had to laugh at some of the comments I thought were narrow minded.
First off, it\'s red & silver with a blue & yellow sword. 4 is too many colors? BabyUnicorn will have epileptic seizures if she ever sees the high elves I\'m currently working on.
And what do most people think of as the distinguishing characteristic of elves? Pointy ears. So Sturm, Hawkmoon is not an elf so this can\'t be him because this is clearly an elf since he\'s got, um, can\'t see the ears, must be an elf cause he\'s got on a dress and a pointy hat!
(then again so does the Pope).

 

[Errex]

Actually, I believe this situation dovetails perfectly wit another tendency we have all seen here, that of just leaving \"Another mini\" as the title of any given model.

Fact is, not many of us actually read the name of a mini, and in other instances, even if read, the references to books and obscure movies are just as cryptic.

Therefore, when a model pops up, and it is easily recognizable as one of the many archetypes GW has fed us over the past years, it is almost natural to think \"Hey, this is a gorkamorka Digga, Why is it painted red with facial tattoos and that double sided light rod thingie in his hand?\"

 

[No Such Agency]

In all fairness to babyunicorn (whoever he/she/it may be), e was just stating eir opinion. That\'s all a comment really is, in the big scheme of things. While eir comment was somewhat critical, e did say the color scheme was \"nice\". Zaphod, e just assumed it was supposed to be a High Elf, because it\'s a High Elf model. E probably has never heard of Dorien Hawkmoon (neither have I, for that matter.)

It\'s just a web site, people. Don\'t get too bent out of shape, even if your competition piece is given a 5.5 and called \"garish\" or \"sloppy\". We put our work out there for all to see, we gotta expect a few comments we don\'t care for. People will dislike our colour choices, or wonder about why we named our models what we did, and say so. Such is life.

 

[Temperance]

The only problem that I have with naming a figure something else is that it makes searching for that figure a little more difficult. One thing I love about CMoN is that I can take many of the miniatures I get and quickly see how others interpreted the sculpture. By having the figure named after a PC or character in the book, it will be harder to do these comparisons. (I would prefer both names in these instances; the figure\'s name according to the manufacturer and the PC/Character name.)

But I\'m not gonna whine about \"That\'s not an orc; it\'s painted yellow!\" which is pretty much the same problem that Glyn is running into, except a bit more subtle here. Some people will \"get\" the paintjob and rank it for what it\'s worth, while the others need a serious rearrangement of their head and digestive tract.

 

[nadine]

Nice miniature. Now you\'ve made me want to go out and read the books about Hawkmoon just so I can find out who he is

I probably would have assumed he was an elf from your portrayal. ;(

N.

 

[Sturmhalo]

I guess I was just being a little picky with my comment and it was only intended as an off the cuff remark. It was simply that I associate the name Dorian Hawkmoon with a particular character (as Zaphod points out as well!). That character not being elfen! A bit like naming a dwarf \'Elric of Melnibone\' perhaps. It\'s the name of a recognised fictional character.

I agree that characters and even R&F types don\'t have to represent what they\'re shown to be on the box. It\'s nice to see people come up with their own colour schemes and think creatively. I think this mentality is perhaps lacking somewhat in the realms of GW, but what do you expect from kids who are spoon fed everything!?

The argument that a figure must be an elf and nothing else because GW say so is not the point here Vince! The figure mentioned fits into what most people would consider an elf to look like. It would be pretty bloody stupid to name it \'Gungri the Orc\'. It doesn\'t look like an orc! If you want to get all abstract and deal with semantics then you could perhaps argue that an elf could be an orc because it\'s a fictional creature and therefore no one can truly say what an elf or an orc should look like! If that were the case then people could use any figure to represent anything. We\'d have Tau representing orcs and robots being fielded as hobbits! There would be no need for companies to label their products or create background material, or design game worlds or anything, as everything would be totally freeform and open to interpretation. But that\'s just silly isn\'t it?! We all recognise figures as being of a type. Ok, a name is just a name, but it can mean something in particular.

Oh, I never rated the model down because of the name either. That would be very petty. Hope I don\'t need any re-adjustment Temperance!

 

[vincegamer]

What a parade of horribles.

Originally posted by Sturmhalo
The figure mentioned fits into what most people would consider an elf to look like. It would be pretty bloody stupid to name it \'Gungri the Orc\'. It doesn\'t look like an orc!

What I meant to imply was that nothing about the model suggests an elf except that GW puts its elves in scale dresses and pointy hats. The body type is really no different from a human body type. What tiny bit of skin shows from inside the helmet resembles a human face as much as any miniature does. (or Cornish Ogre face or vampire face or whatever)
It\'s only what most GW fans consider an elf to look like. It doesn\'t match what manga fans consider an elf to look like, or what Harry Potter fans consider an elf to look like.

 

[Chrispy]

Right on! If you look at any pic of Elric, I\'m sure any GW fan would say \"Hey, cool dark elf!\" Course, as you know Glyn, he\'s just a thin, albino human. Now don\'t tell me people haven\'t used elves as humans before. Just sand down the ears and you got a tall, thin human. This doesn\'t apply to dwarfs and hobbits much, but you catch my drift. As for orcs, who sez a certain orc fig wouldn\'t make a half orc with the right skin tone, eh?

 

[kevd82]

I was just thinking about this myself. I have a miniature that I intend to paint as Thulsa Doom from the REH stories (and the Kull comic books I grew up with). The miniature has a skull instead of a normal human head, and does not look anything like the Thulsa Doom from that Arnold movie posing as a Conan movie. I am already envisioning the comments from people who have no clue...

Not all of us game, so to complain that a miniature doesn\'t fit in with the rules/color scheme of a certain gaming system is not really fair either.

 

[kevd82]

One more thing: even though such comments can be annoying, as long as the miniature isnt voted down because of them it really isnt that big of a deal in the long run.

 

[ZaPhOd]

Aha!!!

Originally posted by kevd82

as long as the miniature isnt voted down because of them it really isnt that big of a deal in the long run.

Hmmm. Maybe that was more my beef all along! I won\'t say he is worth more than a 6, but sheesh!

 

[kannan_fodder]

Boy am I guilty of using GW minis as D&D PCs! Gads, I just thought the mini looked perfect for what I wanted my PCs/NPCs to look like. Never thought I\'d run into the problem of \"Hey! That\'s NOT what X-army-rank-and-file-whatever is supposed to look like!\" Who cares what role the mini plays in the GW universe, and GW could care less HOW the mini is painted. I showed them my Duellist #3 in his hot-pink shirt and pink and black stripped pants when GW\'s Top Dogs were here for the Comic Con International. Guess what? They LIKED it! They said themselves that there is no \"set\" way to paint their armies.

 

[Badaab]

Hey... I know the feeling. I\'ve recieved some interesting comments on my work, and given a few myself.

Personally, I use all manner of characters to represent somethign else entirely. The other day I was having a go at *another* game of Necromunda, and someone got on my case for using a ganger model as my leader... I know its a friggin\' ganger model, but it has the weaponry I wanted to use, and that pointing leader model they sell in the box is just, well, lacking the dynamism the other models in the range seem to have.

I also use a fair amount of different Space Marine characters in my army, I have a converted Corbulo that I use as a regular Apothecary, and people have made comments about how they didn\'t say I could use a \"special character\" or how I don\'t play Blood Angels.

I think GW encourages this type of thing in younder gamers, partly to make more sales, but partly also to remove some of the imagination behind the games (have a look at the LoTR game system).

Joe

 

[Soothand]

I guess I\'m just lucky playing Chipco\'s Fantasy Rules. Since your not tied to any one fig manufacturer and the bases are irrelevant (you put them on bigger bases for the duration of the game) you can use whatever figs you like! I have a wood elf army that has a bunch of GW, RAFM and even some Knight Terror Games figs in it. Whatever strikes my fancy, I conscript into the army! Imagine coming to a Warhamster convention with that kind of army! You\'d give most GW players a seizure!lol

 

[Sturmhalo]

It seems an off hand remark has been blown out of all proportion here doesn\'t it?!

Zaphod. I think I gave your mini a 6 didn\'t I? If so, it was somewhat coloured by the poor photo quality and not by the name of the figure! The paint job does look pretty damn good (maybe an 8!) but it\'s really difficult to tell in the photo. Better pic = better rating!

Once again I\'d just like to make it clear that I\'m NOT some nerdy GW fanboy who gets upset when someone paints a space marine \'in the wrong colours\' or uses an \'ultra mega ork nob end\' as a \'minor mega ork nob end\'! I find it terribly sad when people can\'t see beyond what GW churn out! When I painted my Tau I came up with my own colour scheme and made up the insignia! Would a mardy GW geek dare to think so blasphemously?

 

[kannan_fodder]

Hey Sturmhalo, I meant no offense! I was just sounding off. A while back I got interested in Tyranids, and decided to paint mine in a color scheme that the GW \'Eavy Metal team hadn\'t used before - and one which I\'d have fun playing. I entered the first one done in a local contest, and the inevitable comment was that mine was painted in \"unnatural\" or \"unrealistic\" colors. Now I personally find the comment amusing, considering the fact that Tyranids are a fictional sci-fi race. However, I\'m not amused at getting points docked because I didn\'t blindly follow the Codex color schemes - which IS what happened.

 

[Infidel Castro]

Ooooh! Hand bags girls!

Why don\'t we all sit down and have a nice cup of tea?

Let\'s talk these things through and reach a compromise! Sturmhalo, take ZaPhOd\'s hand and go to the corner of the room. Sit and talk! Show your eternal love for each other and sort out those bad vibes :innocent:

Maybe a point would be that it does, simply look like a High Elf. Call it what you want, but it DOES look like one! The fact that you\'ve explained otherwise is making things clearer, but it IS a High Elf!
A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet...

Nice paint job Z! And, also, a very good choice of name for your moniker! Just reading HHGTTG again as I forgot I had the bloody book lol

Take care

Phi

 

[Infidel Castro]

Weak

Sorry, that was hardly a strong case.

My point would be that a bit of extra conversion work to PERSONALISE the piece would have made other people (like me) think differently about this High Elf mini. I wouldn\'t have had a clue about the name until you said so.

I read the Corum books by the way and they were v. good.

Phi

 

[Maori]

Kudos to kevd and Soothand for their comments, you are right on! I do play Warhammer - mainly because it is extremly difficult to find someone ro play anything else with - and my Beastmen consist of models from Citadel (some very old), Fenryll, Reaper, Grendel, Excalibur, WotC, Heresy, and even Wal-Mart.
I did have one opponent (10 years old, I believe) comment on my Banebeast being a \'special character\' - it\'s a Gorthor the Beastlord conversion - but I explained to the very observant and well GW -trained young man that that was indeed what he originally was, but that I was using him as just a Banebeast. He\'s smart -and a good painter - and got it, maybe I\'ve slightly opened another mind to the universe that exists beyond the \'GW Hobby\'.
As for the original topic, Dorian Hawkmoon, that is, a very tenuous argument could be made that he IS indeed an Elf, being essentially just another incarnation of Elric among others, as The Eternal Champion.......
Some reading of classic (meaning 1890\'s - 1950\'s) fantasy would certainly help the understanding here.???