Are these fair scores?

[kittykat23uk]

Hi all,

following on from the post about sniper scoring I have to ask are these a fair score for my latest batch?

http://www.coolminiornot.com/?id=35757
http://www.coolminiornot.com/?id=35756
http://www.coolminiornot.com/?id=35759

I mean I personally think these ones are far better both in terms of pic quality and painting quality than many of my models that have scored higher ( I think they are better than my Syriak and the Grave guard at least).

The scores are really bad though in comparison to some of my other wolfen with 6 for the orc and mid 7s for the others. Are people just harsher these days or is my painting getting worse?

Please help!

Kat.

 

[Sand Rat]

Kat -

I looked at em - I gave em an 8-8.5. You\'re just being sniped. Give it a little more time and the scores will even out.

 

[Fizl]

Hi,

I gave your wolfen an 8, but I gave the orc a 7. The orc didn\'t seem to flow together as well for me, and in particular his right arm (left in piccie) seemed to have some very abrupt shading which didn\'t seem as good as the rest of your work.

I would just like to add that its a million times better than anything I can paint or glue and I love the diorama in general!

Shaz

 

[kittykat23uk]

Thanks Steelcut. Thats the sort of level I was hoping for and compared to my stuff from a few months ago, all things being equal I really think this is what I should be scoring now.

Not being big headed, but really great painters like Steve B, Ramon, Koen, Tammy as well as forum regulars have all said that I\'ve improved a lot in the past year both in my painting and in my photograpy, but the scores I\'ve had recently just do not reflect this! Sniping must be at an all time high right now!

@Fizl- thanks I was going for a weathered look to the orc armour, and was experimenting with semi wet blending. The right arm isn\'t as good as the left but I am really pleased with the shoulder pad, it\'s really shiny IRL.

Regards

Kat

 

[PF]

Well,I haven\'t sniped you...But maybe three posts for one diorama could explain some people being upset.I think I could...But yes you obviously don\'t deserve such scores...

 

[slidedog]

Hi Kat,

I think your scores are running low as are mine from the figs I painted for the Game Mart comp. If you darkened the photos a bit it might help, unfortunately I don\'t think people really look at the paint job that closely and at these resolutions it is hard. I think mostly people vote on a first impression of overall quality and the photo itself is the key to a good first impression. And by the way I think they should be running in the mid eights.

I\'ve begun to vote a bit higher on things because I think we\'ve all gotten too critical and have lost sight of the guideline scores. These are way better then Tabletop obviously and also easily pass into the great job + category.

Remember we need to encourage each other and new people to improve! Leave comments and help build the hobby! A lower score should include a comment that is helpful for improvment if at all possible!

 

[PF]

Encourage! Yes !I\'ve been told the same thing by some friends among the top ten here and this argument touched me.In fact I wondered why they sometimes gave me 10\'s and they answer thay wanted to encourage me(tho I never asked).This way I\'m going to be cooler I think tho I\'m afraid to not please all the minis.

 

[PF]

Encourage! Yes !I\'ve been told the same thing by some friends among the top ten here and this argument touched me.In fact I wondered why they sometimes gave me 10\'s and they answer thay wanted to encourage me(tho I never asked).This way I\'m going to be cooler I think tho I\'m afraid to not please all the minis.

 

[Jenova]

Well, they are over 50 votes now, so if someone sniped them, the score will be removed

I gave the overall diorama pic a 7. I never give tiny pics more than 7 because it is possible to hide all kinds of flaws with small pics. If you combine the overall pic with some of the others (I thought the crossbow wolfen was very impressive), I can imagine it would score higher.

The solitaire is good too, but the green part looks unhighlighted. Also it is really bright so the eye is drawn to it instead og to his face.

The orc is IMHO the weakest point of the diorama. Maybe because you have much more practice painting wolfen. The leather part looks a little flat and as someone else mentioned, the right arm has kind of an inked look to it. I don\'t know if it is because the pic is very light, but the NMM looks like just one shade of grey with a few white lines.

I have also noticed that Confrontation orcs need to be pretty outstanding to get high scores. Maybe people just don\'t like them much

In general it has gotten much harder to get an average 8. I guess that is just the way it is with so many gorgeous pics posted every week.

Hope this helps and congrats on your victory!

 

[Mengu]

I seem to have given you 8-7-7 in that order. Upon closer inspection, the diorama could have been an 8, but it was probably the first of your batch I voted for, and I couldn\'t really tell much about the paint job there.

 

[finn17]

Two other possibilities....

1) As well as your own development...the overall standard on the site has increased IMO. So you would have to improve just to stand still if you see what I mean.

2) Confrontation weariness...? The \'wow\' factor has now gone I am afraid. I suspect people will have to work twice as hard to get the scores early Rackham painters achieved.

 

[Lurch]

I hide the scores on minis I have not voted on.
After I voted I compaired what I voted to what the score was.
Here is my findings

IMHO....
On your Solitaire, I liked what you had done with it but I just couldn\'t wrap myself around your color choices. The green seemed out of place to me as compaired to the rest of the figure. Also the shadow in the background was a distraction. The light looks to be washing out some of your details as well.
Based upon my personal preference for color AND the so-so photo I voted it a 7. Once my vote was counted, this figure showed a 6.9. I would say this would be in an acceptable range for this model.

On the entire diorama, I really enjoyed how everything fit together from this angle, but again, the photo did not show detail well. The background color helped with the color presentation. but I would have enjoyed a more concise and closer photo. I voted this one as an 8. At 7.4 I would consider this one on the low end by only a few 10ths of a point if at all.

The orc was well painted, but you have done better work. Also it should have been photographed by itself. The surrounding base is a distraction on the mini itself and, I would hazard to say would pull the rate of the figure down.
Concentrating on just the mini, I rated it a 7. At a current 6.1 I find the score extremely harsh, but not surprising due to the photo composition.

The Wolfen Crossbowman was my favorite of this diorama.
Excellent color choice, nice detail being shown, the details on the \"fur\" and claws are well represented. As far as the photo is concerned, the shadow is a distraction, however does not interfere with the mini itself. I voted a 8 and it showed a 7.2. I think this is too low by at least .5 points.

You had mentioned these were low for your work I decided to look at some of your other Wolfens for comparison. I chose some of your higher rated ones as you were concerned about your growth. What better way than to start at the top:

The first one I looked at was Syriak.
First thing I noticed was your photo composition was better than the individual photos you used in the diorama.
The background, while a little dark, complimented the mini. The detail you used on the \"fur\" really stands out on this guy. the color choices are subdued and fitting to the model. They add to the primal feel of the model. In fact, the only
portion of this model I found that would block a higher score was the basing, but even that was not bad.
I voted this one a 8 and at 8.1 on the mini I was right on.

I decided to check out a diorama for comparison as well.

I used your Wolfen Grave Guard to do this.
Very well photographed, only a slight shadow on one of the composites. The details are very clear. The photo could be a little lighter but ,all in all, a good presentation. I gave this a 9 but felt that it was more in the 8.5 range. ( If I feel there needs to be a .5 given I usually round up to the higher number). At 8.1 I think it is close to where it should be.

So whats my conclusion?
Your weak point presentation.
Your older Wolfens, while not necessarily better than your new ones, are presented better for display here. While your painting skills are excellent, you need to work on your photography skills and composition. This is an issue I fight as well.
Remember that this site isn\'t just on painting but has alot of other components to presentation as well. As you are finding out, How you present it is as important as how you paint it!

Hope this helps!

 

[Fuseboy]

I\'ve yet to crack even 7.0, so I\'m no expert, but I\'ve been surfing through the 8.0\'s, and I think there are a few things that might explain your lower ratings.

One possible weakness is composition - the diorama is probably stunning in real life, where stereoscopic vision helps pick out the separate objects, but from a dead-on angle, the two combatants are lost against the high-contrast background (black rock, white snow). The same happens in the Orc close-up. The solitaire is doesn\'t have this problem, but he\'s slightly upstaged by his \'sky shadow\'.

At a technical level, you\'re getting good, but the smoothness of your blends are a bit rougher than the 8.0\'s I\'ve looked at - especially on the Orc\'s right arm, as was pointed out already, and on the solitaire\'s skirt. Also, there\'s a level of razor-sharp cleanliness that you haven\'t yet attained. I\'m not exactly sure, but I think it\'s a combination of smooth blends and very precise blacklining. A rough blend creates accidental contrast, and de-emphasizes the contrast of intentional colour changes.

Another technical issue is lighting. Whether or not you go for fancy directional lighting, all of the 8.0\'s that I looked at also seemed to evoke lighting more strongly. Have a look at these recent 8.0-rated examples: 35223, 36020, 35514,35412, 36017. Although it\'s hard to tell what\'s real shadow and what\'s painted shading, all of them have areas and crevices (armpits, groins, necks) that are much darker than your minis, which have a very even brightness over them.

Beyond technical mastery, there\'s an artistic coherence that\'s not quite present in your colour selection. You\'ve loosely followed the Rackham catalogue Solitaire, but you\'ve used much more saturated colours. The effect of the strong blue, yellow, green, and red is to give the miniature a bit of a \"six-paint set\" feel. I do this all the time myself, and most often when I\'m painting miniatures with lots of tiny objects (like this one).

35223 is a nice example of the opposite - this miniature is all various shades of brown. Purple, yellow, and red are all present to some degree, but the hues are all related. Many of the top ten miniatures on this site have just one or two saturated colours, but use a rich variety of hues in each one. This kind of coherency is vital for getting the \'wow\' factor that gets you from 8.0 to 9.0.

 

[ZaPhOd]

To a certain extent, I agree with fuseboy but not always. The blend coul dbe much smoother, but I still think the biggest drawback is the pics themselves. However, if the pics are better, the blends may not be so it is a kind of Catch 22. The color selections are okay as a lot of people use very wide ranges of colors to great success. The examples shown are all very nice and good examples of simple tight color schemes. The big key though I think, especially with Karakail\'s work is the smoothness of the blends.
Going by this, the wolfen you post I would rate at 7.5 each, the scene at 8 and the orc at 7.... With better pics? Probably more

 

[U4-Welcome]

You know, it\'s strange, because I know I want to give them less than what your others got, but now you\'re asking why, I find it hard to say. The orc and diorama are sort of an overload on my eyes - as Fuseboy said, maybe in 3D they\'d have an easier time picking out the different elements.
Also, the finis is glossy, which always hurts.
On the orc, the highlights could have been smoother, and the colors more subdued and darker : for instance, the green is a little too \'neon green\' for my taste. Furthermore, the blues on the wolfen behind him looks rushed on that pic (no highlights ?)

Hope that helps, and good luck for your next entries.

 

[farseerlum]

the voters are getting harsh! thats about it i think.
8 is a hard score to get. you must remember that to get a 8 you need a .X after it. in other words people have to vote 9s to get your mark over 8.0

the top minis on the site are getting 9s and 10s (there are those that treat a score of 9 the highest they award)

so do you think your work here is worth 8s and 9s ?? i\'m sorry but i don\'t think this peice is there yet.

keep at it!

 

[undergroundtoni]

Gave the whole dio 8.5...the effort alone in building the whole thing is worth at least a 7. The wolves are great 8-8.5 but the orc is to toy like for me...7. Think the way the photo turned out didn\'t do justice as well....keep it up :bouncy:

 

[silverandblackattack]

I liked them

I liked the painting job and the diorama is really nice. The Wolfen I gave an 8 but the Orc only rates a 7. This is more the fact that there is nothing that great about these sculpts. You are one of my favorite painters and I have really enjoyed your dragons.

 

[kittykat23uk]

Thanks for all the comments so far. I\'m still working on getting the best out of my camera but these are the best pics I have managed to get thus far. Unfortunately I can\'t post larger pics without loosing the detail that is already there because of the size limit. This appears to have hindered higher voting I fear.

I have also gone for a more textured look to the fabrics/ armour on these pieces. What I wanted to achieve was quite a thick weave to the fabric with it looking quite worn. I used a combination of very thin washes to build up the tan and then the purple colour to the base and went over that with thin white lines in a crosshatching pattern. The aim was not to create amazingly smooth blends, but rather to present an old weathered looking fabric on the solitaire\'s skirt. similarly I went for a weathered armour look in the case of the orc.

I personally think that the application of the paint is very smooth, but I think some of you have looked at it and wondered why the skirt and armour look a bit patchy- not what you\'re used to seeing maybe?

I also thought the green would make a nice contrast to the solitaire who was looking a bit monochromatic, but it seems this wasn\'t a good choice.

Regards

Kat

 

[Jenova]

I don\'t think the textured fabrics are the problem. I quite like those actually. The problem is lack of smoothness in other places. I really don\'t want to offend you and I do like your painting, but you don\'t seem to listen when people tell you that some of your paintjobs aren\'t smooth

Like the orc:

Some parts look a little flat (like the red hat and the leather) while others look a little rough (like the skin).

He also seems to lack a little definition (brownlining in some places but not in others).

I think Fuseboy gave some really good examples of 8+ figs.

This one stood out like being especially well defined and well composed to me:

I don\'t understand why you can\'t post larger pics... I have seen lots of dioramas with extra shots here. Maybe you don\'t compress the pic enough?

Hope this helps