Bailey03's WIP

[Dragonsreach]

Sorry Bailey;
"Thegn or Thane, is an Anglo-Saxon title (Anglo-Saxon: þeg(e)n, Danish: degn, Old High German: degan, Old Norse: thegn or "king's follower") meaning an attendant, servant, retainer or official, usually in a military sense similar to the later "knight.

There's a lot of confusion about the word Thane, mostly due to bad and blind acceptance of JRRT's usage.


It's closer to think of him as similar to a Samurai to a Daiymo a loyal retainer, usually tied through land and or family. The Border Reiver clans had that kind of family & dependency structure......heh my family were Reivers, if anything wasn't nailed down it was ours, and sometimes even if it was nailed down!

 

[Bailey03]

I ended up ordering the book that the plate was from, but that is still in the mail. In the meantime I was grabbing my info from Wikipedia (which is certainly not without it's factual errors). That seemed to imply earlier usage could be used for an aristocratic attendant/retainer to a king. As the class grew over time they started to make distinctions within it (like creating a subclass of king's thegns). And, after the Norman conquest the old ruling class was replaced and the thegns were merged into the class of knights. This isn't my area of expertise, just what I've read from a sometimes unreliable source of info.

"The term thegn , from Old English þegn, ðegn, "servant, attendant, retainer", "one who serves", is commonly used to describe either an aristocratic retainer of a king or nobleman in Anglo-Saxon England, or, as a class term, the majority of the aristocracy below the ranks of ealdormen and high-reeves."

"But, like all other words of the kind, the word thegn was slowly changing its meaning, and, "the very name, like that of the gesith, has different senses in different ages and kingdoms, but the original idea of military service runs through all the meanings of thegn, as that of personal association is traceable in all the applications of gesith"."

"The increase in the number of thegns produced in time a subdivision of the order. There arose a class of king's thegns, corresponding to the earlier thegns, and a larger class of inferior thegns, some of them the thegns of bishops or of other thegns. A king's thegn was a person of great importance, the contemporary idea being shown by the Latin translation of the words as comes (compare "count"). He had certain special privileges. No one save the king had the right of jurisdiction over him, while by a law of Canute we learn that he paid a larger heriot than an ordinary thegn."

 

[KruleBear]

This is just getting down right fascinating...

 

[Bailey03]

Ha, well now you see the joy of painting historical figures. =P

Getting back to actual painting... I'm trying to figure out how I want to paint the skin for this guy. I'm not quite sure what sorts of tones I should use for my shadows. Anyone got some suggestions?

I'm going for an overall cold look for the figure, so lots of blues and other cool shades. There will be some red in the face (nose and cheeks), but I'm wondering if I should do something other than the reddish browns for my skin tone shadows. I was going to experiment a bit on the palette with some blues, purples, and greens. Maybe throw in some other browns and grays in there too. Anyone tried to do a cold skin (but still realistic) before and got a mix they think worked well?

 

[Dragonsreach]

Ha, well now you see the joy of painting historical figures. =P
Hell yes
Getting back to actual painting... I'm trying to figure out how I want to paint the skin for this guy. I'm not quite sure what sorts of tones I should use for my shadows. Anyone got some suggestions?

I'm going for an overall cold look for the figure, so lots of blues and other cool shades. There will be some red in the face (nose and cheeks), but I'm wondering if I should do something other than the reddish browns for my skin tone shadows. I was going to experiment a bit on the palette with some blues, purples, and greens. Maybe throw in some other browns and grays in there too. Anyone tried to do a cold skin (but still realistic) before and got a mix they think worked well?

Sorry if I'm harping on here, but Northumbria has a lot of Hill and Moorland with exposed and Windblasted areas (Hadrian's Wall up to the Scottish Borders, done a lot of Fell Walking round there) now a lot of the uplands are sheep farming areas which brings a lot of agricultural workers into the "Weather beaten" category.
Now we modern city dwellers have paler base tones than those who work outdoors, plus we also tend to have more 'refined' diets (read fatty and sugar rich diet) so our facial fat, well let's say to a 8-9th Century soldier most of us would look Rich and Fat. So I'd suggest that the base skin tone would be still reddish Browns but the cold areas would be the pinched and cooler lips, ears and hands, and around the eye sockets at the temple region.
M

 

[Demihuman]

This is just getting down right fascinating...

Arguing Northumbrian History with Draqonsreach is feudal! ;0)

 

[KruleBear]

Arguing Northumbrian History with Draqonsreach is feudal! ;0)

Rofl Let the fight continue lol

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

Arguing Northumbrian History with Draqonsreach is feudal! ;0)

It's because he was there, don't be fooled, he is several hundred years old.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Arguing Northumbrian History with Draqonsreach is feudal! ;0)

It's because he was there, don't be fooled, he is several hundred years old.

Certainly feel it this morning!

But yes I have to admit to a certain love of the "Disputed Lands" of the Northern Border country.
Been watching Vikings lately and chorkled a bit on the raid at Lindisfarne, then on the raid At Hexham and Sailing up the Tyne.
A fair bit of 'licence' there.

Still if you want a feel for the rough and ready character of the region try ready "The Steel Bonnets" by George Macdonald Frazer.

 

[oistene]

I really like the horn - adding an axe wouldn't make much sense in a historical setting, you can't use an axe and a spear at the same time. (A dagger along with the spear, now that is accurate. You poke at the other guy from a distance with the spear, and if he dodges that and get too close, you can stab him with the dagger.)

 

[Maenas]

It's because he was there, don't be fooled, he is several hundred years old.

Being Gandalf you can certify that. You where there even before Dragonsreach xD

 

[Demihuman]

DR, are you a Bernard Cornwell fan? I loved his Saxon Stories books. I thought they were one of his better series and offered a nice counter point to his Arthur books.

 

[BloodFather of Kharnath]

Northumbrian Warrior always kinda makes me smile seeing as Northumbria was where I was born.
Bbut I'm just wondering about the blue cloth, BLUE dye was in credibly expensive for cloth an mostly restricted for Royalty.
Most dyes of the period were natural and organic based so tended towards Browns, Greens and Ochre based colours and no detergents so dyed clothing faded easily with washing however sporadic.
I shudder to think of the smell of the Mail protected from rust with animal grease as well.

I must dissent here. Red was the color of nobility during these times, and a dull blue woad was widely available to peasants and servants. It was a rich imported indigo blue that was restricted to French nobility in later times, but there is nothing inaccurate with this particular Northumbrian being garbed in blue, so long as it isn't too saturated.

http://www.webexhibits.org/pigments/intro/blues3.html

 

[ten ball]

It's because he was there, don't be fooled, he is several hundred years old.

Correct, but as for the colours - wasnt everything in black and white back then??

lol

 

[AndyG]

I thought it was kind of a sepia

 

[Bailey03]

Lol, nah, Andy, sepia came much later. I can send you some links to stone carvings from that time period and it's clearly in shades of gray.

In other news, MV posted the results from the bananalicious contest. So many great entries, congrats to all the winners. After seeing the competition in historical masters, I thought if I got real lucky maybe I could end up in third place. I was shocked to see I came in first. Honestly, I still wonder if it was a miss-post. :tongue:
http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.com/2015/07/bananalicious-2-winners.html
If you haven't looked at the entries, check out the above link. The fantasy master ones are out of this world!

On another topic I'm trying to put together a list of people who teach one day or weekend long painting classes. The group in LA is interested in inviting someone out here and I'd like to give them a number of options. I put up a new thread about this, so if you have any suggestions or reviews please post it over there. Thanks!

Finally, I thought I'd share the (mostly) finished photos of Sorondil. I haven't had time to paint the dinosaur yet, but I did want to submit him to the Rainbow Brush competition so I put together some current photos and uploaded them over on Wamp.

 

[Zab]

Congrats and lovely work!

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

You underestimate yourself master Bailey. Words of praise are never enough to win against that sort of competition.
Sorondil is becoming another epic piece, you are setting an incredible standard.

 

[BloodASmedium]

Do not know about thagn thines thowns thewns,but I do know perfeCT precision painted models that are comparable to a surgeons surgical strike..blown away again...God has blessed you with an ever progressing talent that won't ever die.

 

[moetle]

Congrats ! Your stuff is always so damn amazing.