biased against historicals

[mrbadexample]

is it me, or is there a serious bias against historicals here?
i was looking over the photos, and since you can sort if by type it was easy, and comparing the highest rated historical and the highest rated Sci Fi( i just have not done the fantasy or other genres i will if it is required)
it seems, with out a doubt that the highest rated stuff is usually larger scale stuff or busts, fair nuff. but when you get to the middle rated stuff. like 4-7 range(and higher as well) you will see that stuff that is rated high in the sci fi genre isnt quite as nice as the stuff of similar rating in the historical section.
granted the sci fi fantasy stuff has a lot of chances to \"show off\" by painting banners, or cloaks with cool stuff on them. and that stuff is cool, but there is a different set of criteria when doind historicals, and i dont know if that is missed, or people just dont give a crap about the historical stuff.
i have noticed some serious rifts in our hobby, people saying sci fi gamers are dorks, or historical gamers suck or what have you. given we all push little toy soldiers around a table i see no reason we should split hairs over the genre, but i am not everyone. so i wonder how much of these low numbers are due to a bias agaisnt historicals.

look at my stuff by the way, and you will see that my fantasy/sci fi stuff, higher ratings, the historicals all have low ratings(even when its the same series of figures and they are all paianted the same way by the same person, shouldnt they have similar ratings?)

i dunno you tell me

 

[Ritual]

The majority of the users of this site is and have been fantasy and sci-fi painters and gamers. Many of those aren\'t particularly interested in historical minis and will not vote as often on such minis, and when they do they might score them a bit lower since they don\'t find them as cool as Warhammer minis or whatever. The key word for voting on Cool Mini Or Not is \"cool\", after all.

You can see plenty of examples of tendencies in the voting patterns, where other factors than skill seem to matter a great deal. The most important thing for getting a good score is that you get lots of votes. That way the inevitable low scores from misers and people, who think it\'s fun to vote down other people\'s minis, won\'t matter as much. So, it\'s no wonder that well painted Space Marines will score a bit higher than well painted historical miniatures as more people tend to vote on them and more people (of those who vote here) think Space Marines are cool.

I think we will see this tendency become smaller, though, as more people tend to be interested in all sorts of minis. This is a good thing!

 

[evil tendencies]

Unfortunately, this isn\'t Quality Mini or Not, or Well-Painted Mini or Not. It\'s \"Cool\" Mini or Not, and sometimes good stuff doesn\'t get the votes because people, for whatever reason, just aren\'t inspired by it.

Personally, I vote based on execution as well as \"cool\" factor, but not everyone does - and that\'s okay. If you care about the quality of your paintjobs, just ignore the ratings and learn as much as you can around here. There are plenty of folks here who appreciate a nice historical mini, and many of them are willing to give advice.

Oh, welcome to the forums! Hope you stick around.

 

[supervike]

Yep, there is a severe bias.

It\'s just a score on a miniature site, not indicitive of its true merit.

It\'ll be ok.

I vote 100% on the COOLNESS of stuff.

 

[freakinacage]

also bear in mind that people know scifi and fantasy models better so they know when and how they have been converted.

also there seems to be more scope for imagination with non historicals

 

[mrbadexample]

Originally posted by freakinacage
also bear in mind that people know scifi and fantasy models better so they know when and how they have been converted.

also there seems to be more scope for imagination with non historicals

i agree with you guys on everything but the point above. i think there is more scope for imagination with an historical, there is much less room to play with and there fore to be creative you have to try that much harder. its easy to just paint up a cool device or design and stick it on a figure, its not so easy to do that and keep it within historical possibility.

now for the rest.
i am not concerned too much about my scores, shit i was jazzed when i got 4s and 5s especailly when i look at what earns 9s and 10s, well beyond my meagre ability.
i know that the name is \"cool\" mini, but i really thought, and now i know, that this was more about skill at painting. since in reality that is the only thing that we can judge these figs by that is consitent through out all genres. throwing on some bits and bobs to increase \"cool\" factor makes sense, but it doenst really mean much if the figure is painted poorly.

but then thats not how most people think about it, and you have to watch out for the misers and trolls, so i understand how it works

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by freakinacage
also there seems to be more scope for imagination with non historicals

This is probably the most imaginative thing I\'ve seen ever (miniature wise, that is...).

It doesn\'t have to be unreal to be imaginative.

 

[supervike]

Whoa!

I love it.

Check out the HUMBROL on the train tanker!

 

[Ritual]

Perhaps I should add that the Highlander infantry man is a 54 mm mini from Latorre Models. So, that\'ll give you all an idea how big all those construction workers are.

This is made by the Dutch painter and modeller Marijn van Gils (hope I spelt that correctly). Extremely talented guy!

 

[evil tendencies]

Holy cow.

 

[Davyboy74]

Thats just taken my breath away! Fantastic! Thanks for showing that Ritual, Hadnt seen it before

(ive got a thing about Scottish minis, i wonder why?)

Thats just insane! (in a good way of course, like Syd Barrett or something)

 

[demonherald]

Every time I see that mini Anders I\'m just mesmorised it\'s great...now if only all the little men were dozers and the scaffolding made of sugar...

I agree there is a definite bias....I don\'t think it\'s anything bad and I also agree that it will get better as more of the fantasy painters are switching to try their hand at historical minis.. people become more aware of the genre and therefore more likely to vote higher...

I think the key as already mentioned is bigger numbers of votes and the best way to get that is to do a space marine or the latest army character...

The bias runs deeper than just historical versus fantasy it runs between manufacturers too.. I know in my own gallery I always get a lot more votes on GW models than non GW.. The simple fact of the mini painting world is they are just too big a company with too many fans to not generate this kind of bias..

I find when I put other anufacturers models in I get pretty even numbers of registered and unregistered votes and in smaller amounts.. whenever I stick a space marine on I get higher numbers of vote and a lot higher percentage of non registered voters...

many of the unregistered voters who come on the site are looking for examples of GW models and that\'s how the big old circle develops.

personally I love seeing historical work and I\'m currently dipping my toe into the genre and I have a massive respect for the difficulty factor in keeping historically correct on all aspects .. I can\'t cover up an area of blank space with any old pattern it has to be right....a totally different game and a new and refreshing challenge for me.....

 

[freakinacage]

to be fair that is a bit outside the box for historical stuff. but point well made! lovely piece

 

[Infidel Castro]

I fell over when i saw that, and it works all the more on this page as we have to scroll down. It kind of unravels in front of us

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by freakinacage
to be fair that is a bit outside the box for historical stuff.

That\'s pretty much my point! Just because the mini in question is a historical piece doesn\'t mean you can\'t do creative things with it (and still keep it within \"limits\"... The colours used on Marijn\'s piece is, after all, pretty much correct. ). Also, you can chose to make stuff that\'s historical, and pretty much correct, but doesn\'t focus on soldiers. Take Roy Hunt\'s Hiroshima victim, for instance.

What I am trying to say is that history really gives you endless opportunities to use your imagination. All you have to do is think beyond the standard soldier type miniatures. Knowing how to sculpt helps a bit too, of course! :innocent:

 

[demonherald]

were all the hiroshima pieces that I\'ve noticed in the various expo coverages by Roy Hunt??? I have to admit when I saw them I was very impressed by the diferent theme for an historical piece and the attention to detail...

one other point I didn\'t mention previously is a lot of the 28mm historical sculpts out there don\'t lend themselves to scoring well no matter how well painted.. There\'s only so much can be done with them.

 

[Ritual]

I think Roy had two Hiroshima themed pieces at the World Expo. I didn\'t find any photos of the other one. And I forgot to take pics of them... :redface: They were among the first things I saw when I got there and I was really struck by them, and then I forget to photograph them...

 

[mattrock]

You know, in a way, it may not be a bias against historicals, but more of a bias for them.

What I mean is that it is very easy to hold historical modellers to a higher standard, being that they are trying to attain a level of realism that typically exceeds that of a sci-fi or fantasy mini. In a way, while this may mean lower scores, it is a complement to the historical modelling community as a whole. It\'s much like what we\'ve seen in the progression of scoring on fantasy and sci-fi over the years:

Minis that could get 8s and 9s four years ago would be 6s to 8s today. It\'s not that people are developing a bias against them, it\'s just that the standard is so much higher now.

I find it quite complementary of the community at large.

And those minis you shared are mind numbing, ritual. The first one may be my new all-time favorite. Just wow. :wow:

 

[Amazon warrior]

Originally posted by demonherald
one other point I didn\'t mention previously is a lot of the 28mm historical sculpts out there don\'t lend themselves to scoring well no matter how well painted.. There\'s only so much can be done with them.

I was discussing this exact point with a friend of mine. He pointed out that back in the day, it was all about the quantity over quality with historicals, but now much more detailed sculpts were appearing. It will probably help when these prettier pieces filter through.

 

[lizcam]

Here the thing. I can\'t really judge the accuracy of a historical mini because I don\'t know the \"fluff\" (not that history is fluff but by this I mean color accuracy, ect.). I can tell if a paint job is good but I couldn\'t tell if the colors are right or the cutlass is correct or anything like that. So I just don\'t vote unless it\'s an outstanding piece like the ones shown here. I do the same for most fantasy/army typr minis. Again, I don\'t know the fluff so unless something stands out I move on.

That being said I have noticed that other types of minis get lower scores as well. I like to do pieces that tell stories. They are not gaming minis and often have little to do with gaming even in referrence. These always get lower scores than I expect they would (my photography doesn\'t help either). But I\'ve learned not to worry about it. Art minis are on a different \"scale\" than gaming minis. I figure if I add a point to the score it\'s where it would be if it was a popular piece. Still puts me in the middle of the road catigory but I\'m cool with that. I just know what I\'ll have to paint if I ever want to sell anything.