bush speech

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johnboyjjb

Active member
My buddy just went back after Christmas. He knew he was doing good when he left. He had a purpose in being there. Lately though, they have been going on raids, arresting people, and confiscating huge caches of weapons. But 3 days later the same people get released and are back on the streets. He says it is very frustrating to him. The only upside is that they have managed to remove some of arms from the equation. He also hasn\'t been shot at since he came home for Christmas, which makes him happy.
 
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Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by Ritual
Originally posted by StarFyre
there have been and will be much worse events in human history...in comparison, the events of the past of the past 5 or 6 years don\'t even make the top 50....

Sanjay
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???

So, unless current conflicts match the world wars, or something, in scope they\'re not interesting?
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It\'s only interesting when it\'s Americans dying.
The death toll in Africa due to violence is what, triple this every year?
Where is the media?
It\'s all politics.
If it was Iraqis killing Iraqis, the world wouldn\'t even blink an eye.
 
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Ritual

New member
Africa gets plenty of room in media here! Maybe not as much as the Iraq conflict, but that is also a global conflict due to the US/British etc. involvement.
 
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Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by Ritual
Africa gets plenty of room in media here! Maybe not as much as the Iraq conflict, but that is also a global conflict due to the US/British etc. involvement.
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Here Africa gets almost no mention.

To simply pull out and walk away is at the very least as morally bankrupt as starting the war in the first place. It\'s the epitome of the \"It\'s not my responsibility\" mentality that is pervading the world today. It is our responsibility. Whether you agreed with us going to war or not, we are there. We started it. We toppled the government. We promised to rebuild the government of Iraq.
We broke it, we have to buy it.
 
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vincegamer

Active member
Originally posted by Evil Dave
In the year 2000, there were over 2000 murders alone in the state of California.
That\'s just one state in one year.
Keeping with the murder rate, we have lost over double to triple the amount of people just in California, just due to murder (Not car crashes or accidental deaths which are being tallied into the Iraq casualties), in the same time period we\'ve been in Iraq.
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To make a fair comparison you have to state the number of people killed in Iraq due to the war, not only the number of Americans. Otherwise you should just be counting the number of California police officers murdered to be a somewhat fair comparison.
 
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Ritual

New member
Originally posted by Evil Dave
Originally posted by Ritual
Africa gets plenty of room in media here! Maybe not as much as the Iraq conflict, but that is also a global conflict due to the US/British etc. involvement.
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Here Africa gets almost no mention.

To simply pull out and walk away is at the very least as morally bankrupt as starting the war in the first place. It\'s the epitome of the \"It\'s not my responsibility\" mentality that is pervading the world today. It is our responsibility. Whether you agreed with us going to war or not, we are there. We started it. We toppled the government. We promised to rebuild the government of Iraq.
We broke it, we have to buy it.
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I never suggested you should pull out and leave Iraq to its own destiny at this point.

I wasn\'t planning on getting into any Iraq discussion, because I don\'t have the time and energy at the moment.

I just questioned the mentality that this conflict wasn\'t worth discussing because there have been worse conflicts earlier in history.
 
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Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by vincegamer
Originally posted by Evil Dave
In the year 2000, there were over 2000 murders alone in the state of California.
That\'s just one state in one year.
Keeping with the murder rate, we have lost over double to triple the amount of people just in California, just due to murder (Not car crashes or accidental deaths which are being tallied into the Iraq casualties), in the same time period we\'ve been in Iraq.
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To make a fair comparison you have to state the number of people killed in Iraq due to the war, not only the number of Americans. Otherwise you should just be counting the number of California police officers murdered to be a somewhat fair comparison.
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Actually, my point was that the media flaunts every American death in Iraq, but barely mention any of the daily atrocities that happen in their own backyards.
 
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vincegamer

Active member
That is because we have come to view a certain level of violence as an unfortunate but necessary aspect of our society.
However, people can still argue that there was nothing necessary about american soldiers being in Iraq in the first place. If we went to Iraq because we felt threatened because of the attack on 9/11/01, then it is significant that more Americans have died as a result of being sent to Iraq than people of all nations died on 9/11/01 due to terrorist action.
To me that is why the number is newsworthy.
 
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Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by vincegamer

To me that is why the number is newsworthy.
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To me the number means nothing.
We have a responsibility.
People can try to hide behind the \"Bush lied\" excuse, or the \"I voted for the other guy\" excuse, but it really doesn\'t matter.
The duly appointed American government, an extension of the American people, voted for and went to war with Iraq. We toppled a foriegn government and pledged to support and rebuild the Iraqi government.
To renig on the deal, whether it be 3000 soldiers or 30,000 soldiers (Who, I might add, are all volunteers.) is still renigging and dodging responsibility for the actions of our choices.
 
Infidel Castro

Infidel Castro

New member
Originally posted by steelcult

And finally as for the better light comment - if the US is such a horrible place to be, why are so many people dying - literally and figuratively - trying to get there?
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Because it\'s still richer than most other places. That\'s obvious. And America probably isn\'t horrible, it\'s just filthily corrupt like the UK.
 
Infidel Castro

Infidel Castro

New member
Originally posted by DIablofollower
I honestly don\'t think this is the place to have these types of discussions, but while we are on the topic let me get my two cents in here. :) I agree with what SC has to say. And also to say I\'m getting sick of people whining about this left and right. Uberdark, the fact that you know people who have gotten shipped off to Iraq and that you still have this attitude is surprising. If you care about these people enough to complain that they are being shipped off, then why not support them? The soldiers there actually believe that what they are fighting for is a just cause....and the lack of support from home is impacting them horribly when it comes to moral. You obviously care about the people who you know that got shipped off...support them so they make it home safely...ranting on about something that cannot be fixed won\'t help you or them.
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And I thought that soldiers are trained to obey.

Silly me.

And sorry for multiple posts, only the more I read, the more annoyed I\'m becoming.
 
Orb

Orb

procrastinator
Originally posted by reverend
Originally posted by AinuLainour
Yay.. Another American brainwashed by Farenheit 9/11.
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You seriously are becoming more presumptuous and pompous with every passing day. :cussing:
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I was wanting to say that........but couldn\'t quite find there words.......nice one Rev
 
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Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by reverend
And I thought that soldiers are trained to obey.

Silly me.
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lol Now who\'s being presumptuous?

As far as I know, you\'ve never been a soldier, therefore are assuming about what they are trained for.
Not a slight, just pointing that out.:D
 
Avelorn

Avelorn

Sven Jonsson
Originally posted by Evil Dave
lol Now who\'s being presumptuous?

As far as I know, you\'ve never been a soldier, therefore are assuming about what they are trained for.
Not a slight, just pointing that out.:D
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Now you\'re being presumptuous! lol We can read you know...
 
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Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by Avelorn
Originally posted by Evil Dave
lol Now who\'s being presumptuous?

As far as I know, you\'ve never been a soldier, therefore are assuming about what they are trained for.
Not a slight, just pointing that out.:D
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Now you\'re being presumptuous! lol We can read you know...
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Ah, but from the standpoint from one who has been in the military, believe me, what you read and what you see in the movies are completely different from reality.
 
Avelorn

Avelorn

Sven Jonsson
Originally posted by Evil Dave
Ah, but from the standpoint from one who has been in the military, believe me, what you read and what you see in the movies are completely different from reality.
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Really? :eek: So you mean all these years watching and analyzing Rambo to learn about being a U.S. soldier was a waste of time? Crap...
 
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