Dungeons and Dragons: The Tool of Satan?

Tylith

New member
On August 15th, 1979, James Dallas Egbert III went missing from Michigan State University. Dallas had been an avid Sci-Fi/Fantasy fan, a computer wiz, as well as a player of the role playing game entitled \"Dungeons and Dragons.\" Dallas\' family hired a well known private investigator known by the family, William C Dear. Dear suggested that a Dungeons and Dragons game gone awry may have been the cause. Three years later a movie was released called \"Mazes and Monsters,\" which seemed to resemble the case. Many people assumed the movie was based on the truth, rather than fiction. The media, along with the misconception of the movie, promoted the idea that role playing games were evil, and a source of violence. In 1984, William Dear released a book called \"The Dungeon Master: The Disappearance of James Dallas Egbert III.\" He attempted to clarify his studies in the book, but it was largely ignored by the media, and the critics of the game. In the book Dear talked about some other possible causes of Dallas\'s disappearance. Dallas was a frequent drug user, who used his knowledge of chemistry to create his own drugs. He was also either gay or bisexual, which cause him discomfort among his peers. He suffered from severe depression which his university\'s psychologist said was caused by \"parental pressure, criticism, academic pressure, and the failure of all persons to realize that, although Dallas Egbert was a genius, he was socially retardant, and in some respects could be considered mentally retarded.\" The fact that he played Dungeons and Dragons has little baring on the actual cause of his disappearance. Dungeons and Dragons, role-playing games in general, are often said to be the cause of suicide, or other violence\'s. It is said to cause people to lose connection with reality and many people relate it with Occultism. Dungeons and Dragons is called evil by the church and religious fanatics.

Friends, and especially parents, often blame games for the behavior of their children. I can understand how they might feel when their child commits suicide, or an act of violence. I can understand them needing something to blame, something tangible to fight, but their is almost always a more likely cause. Role-playing games are an easy target for parents to vent on, but are very rarely a true factor. Drug use, alcohol use, abuse, depression, bad relationships, thousands of other causes, and yet a game is blamed. The game, which is nothing more than a game, is a convenience. After all, how many people who have committed suicide ever played some form of a game before?

I recently read an article about the Israeli army prohibiting anyone engaged in \"Dungeons and Dragons\" from joining any high security positions. It was being said that the game causes people to lose connection with reality. I have been playing the game for almost 5 years, and many other role-playing games for much longer, and I can tell you from experience that they are not the cause of any detachment from reality. When a fictional author writes, he creates a character in his head. Appearances, mannerisms, abilities. It takes someone with imagination and passion to become good at it. This is exactly what someone does while playing role-playing games, only it\'s done collectively. Each person has their own unique character. They use their character to create a story interactively with their friends. It promotes imagination, socialism, and usually helps ones writing ability. There is a definite line between the \"writer\", and the character. If a person blurs reality with fantasy, then fantasy is not the problem, but reality. A person unhappy with their life may turn to fantasy for escape, may over-involve himself, but reality is, and always will be, the initial cause.

The Christian church, and many others, has always had problems with role-playing games. Their main arguments usually involve the worshipping of deities, the casting of spells, and involvement with devils. My friend Kevin, who is a Christian, once convinced a church to let him to run a Dungeons and Dragons campaign, even using the fantasy pantheon of gods provided. His argument was \"Imaginary gods for imaginary people.\" He felt that it would degrade the integrity of his god to use him in a game. Magic spells and items are involved the game, and it does give a vague description of what your character must do to cast the spell, such as speak, or make motion, but no semantics are given, and no specific motions are provided, it\'s purely make believe. Magic items are just part of the game. In some games one might pick up a flamethrower and use it on his enemy, and in others you might pick up a wand of fireball to use on your enemy. In some games you might have a medic stitching up your wounds, in others you have Clerics magically curing them. It is similar to technology, while still keeping the mood of the setting. Magic is just a tool. Involvement with devils is very minimal, and in most cases they\'re your foes. Angels and good being are always greater than evil, not even considering that evil never has mutual trust with other evil. You can choose your alignment for your character, but as MJ Young said, \"Any game is only as good as the referee and the players.\" If you want to be good, you can be good. I should note that many of the worlds great fantasy authors, such as C. S. Lewis and JRR Tolkein were Christians.

Dungeons and Dragons promotes imagination and creativity, teaches hope and resourcefulness. It encourages people to believe they can defeat the obstacles they face. Constant math and writing increases academic skills. It is not the cause of violence, derangement, or occultism. It is likely that many of the people in the world who have committed suicide have played D&D. Many of the people who have committed suicide also played football, had kids, or were Christians. Far more suicides can be clearly shown to be directly caused by the stock market than can be even remotely connected to Dungeons and Dragons. That does not make the stock market the tool of Satan.

I had to write a persuasive speech for school (due tomorrow), was hoping to get some feedback!
 

paintingploddy

New member
The Stock market is the tool of he who shouldn\'t be named.

Brave topic to give a speech on, regardless of how good your argument and impassioned your delivery you are almost certain to run across an audience unwilling to be persuaded. I am employed to convince and argue every day. If your argument doesn\'t appeal to the people you make it to, you will struggle to achieve the result you desire. The subject matter is your greatest handicap (and your best asset, you are clearly passionate about this topic).

Good luck though.
 
Z

ZeCorto

Guest
What I would say about this is that it does not close the introduction: you raise a question in the first paragraph (why did Egbert bugger off?) and you do not clearly answer it. Just add in the conclusion that a percentage of any population will be crazy and Egbert is the percentage in the role-playing population.

And also, the stock market as a tool of satan might not be a good reference. A few centuries ago, lending money was prohibited by the church (that is why banking has so long been associated with the Jewish community who had no religious qualms about lending money). So at that time, the stock market WOULD have been burned as a tool of satan, your teachers might know that so the reference is a bit risky.
 

Tylith

New member
Hmmm good points... But we still don\'t know why Egbert \"buggered\" off, all we have is what I stated in the opening paragraph...


a percentage of any population will be crazy and Egbert is the percentage in the role-playing population.
Aye aye! That\'s good :D
 

MarkusTay

New member
In the 70\'s it was Ozzy Osbourne that made kids suicidal or violent,
In the 80\'s it was D&D,
In the 90\'s it was computer games,

Parents, and the population in general, need a scapegoat, because they do not want to blame themselves for \'little Johnnys\' strange behaviour. If parents \'parented\' better, \'little Johnny\' wouldn\'t be playing with dad\'s gun (or whatever other tool of self/mass destruction).

And besides, EVERYONE knows it\'s posting to forums that makes one a sociopath... lol
 

QuietiManes

New member
Yeah, I\'m about to go postal myself...and someone in the other thread told me to \"Have sex!\"...wonder if I should do it in that order?:eek:

Forum posting madness...madness I tell you!!! It has me! :D

Ok, so everyone knows I\'m joking right? Right!?

*polishes weapons of mass destruction quoting golemesque phrases from LOTR*
 

Dr Sanch

New member
Of course Dungeons and Dragons is the problem, since when have mixing drugs, having depression and problems accepting your sexuality ever led to suicide!? :rolleyes:

It\'s the same as when some people burn Harry Potter books as they talk of spells so some people think they are clearly a work of the occult, crazy.

Good speech, but people are reluctant to hear the truth and have to deal with the real problems and causes. Like Markus says bad parenting is probably the main problem.
 
I think that it is a good start, but it needs something more. What you may ask? No clue, but I do think it needs a little more.

Let us know how it went. Good Luck!
 

Naukhel

Active member
Didn\'t the military ban these people BECAUSE they had imagination, math and writing skills from these games?
He can add. He understands that we\'re lying about the number of dead.
He can read and write. He can probably understand that we\'re blowing S*** out our mouths when we deliver the propoganda.
He has imagination, and a thought process. He might not blindly obey our orders...

What we need, gamers and affiliates... is better press representation. Not news cameras catching the conventions and ONLY showing the people in the wild costumes and bizarre behaviour.

*takes off his mask* Really.
 

MarkusTay

New member
He should read that with his back to his audience, finishing with \"I have been playing D&D for years and it\'s clearly had no effect on me. Then slowly turn around and have a pair of horns on his head lol
 

supervike

Super Moderator
\"Mazes and Monsters\" starred Tom Hanks, BTW....;)

Good speech. I think you should do well, BUT...

Is this \'satanic\' stigma still really attached to D&D and roleplaying? It seems as the majority of the population has moved onto other evils. I am sure there are still sects around the country that may spout that sort of stupidry (i made that word up), but not as much as it may have been.

In my opinion, it would be much harder to remove the stigma of \'geekiness\' that is attached to much of these types of hobbies.
 

vincegamer

Active member
I\'m just not sure what you are trying to persuade me to do.

It sounds like a speech in defense of D&D, or are you trying to persuade the Israeli army to allow D&D players into high ranking positions?

It seems a fine speech to inform, rather than persuade, and I suggest including more information on things like why people who play D&D are less likely to commit suicide (supportive peer groups, emotional outlet, structured environment etc.).

Or has your school somehow banned role playing?
 

Tylith

New member
I have dozens of friends at school who aren\'t aloud to play D&D. The \"satanic\" stigma is very much alive. I don\'t have to make the speech until tomorrow it turns out, but one of my friends actually wants to borrow a copy to see if she can change her parents mind about letting her play... :D
 

marineboy

New member
Tylith, it seems that you concentrate an awful lot on the negative preconceptions the population at large has about D&D. These are of course valid points and should be dealt with in your speech.

Why not concentrate on the positive side of the game. Spend some more time telling people the good qualities that the game promotes, instead of bludgeoning into accepting that all the bad they\'ve heard is wrong.

Catch the flies with sugar.:)
 
N

NecroN

Guest
1 quick note

I would change the title. By starting by mentioning big red people are already going to form an opinion before you have spoken a word. Maybe D&D more then a game. Since you point out that it is more then a game and people believe that already, but you just have to convince them that it is a good game and not the bad evil one they may have been lead to beleive.

I think that made sense... you can tell I don\'t write speaches.
 

Tylith

New member
I\'m no writer myself... Just something I wrote at 2 AM the night before it was due...
:)

Thanks for the advice, my teacher already has the copy of the speech and I will be graded on accuracy, so I can\'t change much. I\'ll keep it in mind next paper I have to write...

But the title doesn\'t really matter, I\'m not reading a title at the beggining of the speech :p
Will keep in mind for future papers though
 

McThud

New member
Interestingly, the stock market uses what are 3-letter \'symbols\' for the names of companies on the \'ticker.\' Often (but not always, of course...IBM for example) dropping the vowels from the name to produce the symbol. However, Satan could well be represented on the stock ticker as STN....

Which does actually exist!!!

STN = Station Casinos Inc.

oooooohhh! Scary! Especially since taken from your speech,directly concerning suicide, casinos have indeed been the cause of MANY suicides over the years. Coincidence? Perhaps....cue scary music...or is it!!!???

I therefore, respectfully submit, that the stock market is not only a tool of satan, but STN himself!

And, good luck on your grade!
 

MarkusTay

New member
Originally posted by marineboy
Tylith, it seems that you concentrate an awful lot on the negative preconceptions the population at large has about D&D. These are of course valid points and should be dealt with in your speech.

Why not concentrate on the positive side of the game. Spend some more time telling people the good qualities that the game promotes, instead of bludgeoning into accepting that all the bad they\'ve heard is wrong.

Catch the flies with sugar.:)
1) \"My 20th level Stygian Sorceress is waaaaay better then your 20th level Anti-Paladin... (Pride)
2) \"How come his character gets ALL the GOOD stuff?!\" (Envy)
3) \"That stinking halfling stole my amulet! I\'m gonna KILL HIM! (Wrath)
4) \"No thanks bob, I don\'t want to go outside and play basketball, I got some friends coming over for a D&D session\" (Sloth)
5) \"And we get to find lots and lots of treasure!\" (Greed)
6) \"Hand me that bag of Doritos... so we\'re going back to town and have a big feast to celebrate, with lotsa mead and wine and dancing girls...\" (Gluttony)
7) \"There is a female Elf sizing me up from across the bar? What\'s she wearing?\" (Lust)

Maybe describing the game ISN\'T the way to go... lol

Nothing like taking both sides of an argument. :D Just use my favorite line - There are a thousand times as many murders and suicides committed by people who play Monopoly then there are by people who play D&D. Now that\'s an Ebil game! :flame:
rlwhore.gif
 
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