Extremely harsh scoring trend

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Beelzebrush

Active member
I\'ve just been looking at the top mini over 7 days list...

What is going on with the extremely harsh and frankly ridiculous scoring and comments? I\'ve noticed this a few times recently on good quality minis.

For example...

Here

Here

The 2 and 3 for Fredy\'s mini are nothing short of vitriolic. Shameful really as the painter that left the comments is top class and really should know better. To score something at that quality so churlishly low deserves utter contempt in my opinion.

Sorry for the rant :cussing:
 
Dragonsreach

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
Speaking in general terms the moderators don\'t really delete comments unless they are exceptionally rude or insulting.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and despite the fact that fredy\'s work is (IMO) first rate, some people do not like it. (It\'s the same with my opinion of John Blanche\'s artwork.)

As moderators we are in a No Win situation here Andy, if we deleted those critical comments and only left the \"Effusive Praising\" ones we would be accused of favouritism.
By leaving them we still face criticism, But at least the comments are open for discussion either in the forums or has been the case directly on the posted pictures comments themselves.

I understand your dissatisfaction Andy, and to be honest there are times, when moderating comments, I think that the commentators are more \"mouth than trousers\", but I will stand by the fact that the moderators allow such criticism and responses.
As far as I am aware there have been \'few and far between\' issues over comments placed on mini\'s and the \'Self Moderating Level\' that appears within the forums is reflected in the responses to the comments.

I appreciate your concern in respect to others artworks, but lets be honest people are people. Some are genuine and helpful and some can be arseholes, if we were all the same it would be boring.
 
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tidoco2222

Active member
Well put Mike, but I do wonder sometimes if the people that give low scores or harsh comments on works that are obviously bertter than the sum of the score given, if there is not a little jealousy
involved.
I would say that in these case the people leaving the low votes are also leaving comments so they are prepared to stand up and be counted and not like some of the spineless voters that just give the low scores for the hell of it.
 
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Beelzebrush

Active member
I agree with everything you say Mike.

However the points you make would apply more if the comment poster had scored the mini at 5 or 6 perhaps (this mini is mid 9 atm). To score this at a 2 or 3 is totally different and suggests a completely different agenda.

*edit* To score something of the obvious quality that this is so low would need a lot more justification than...

2 - \'it\'s horrible\'...

That seems more personal than constructive to me... and the fact that the commenter has the \'balls\' to make it public makes it even more personal.

Sad!
 
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Ritual

New member
Originally posted by Beelzebrush
2 - \'it\'s horrible\'...

That seems more personal than constructive to me... and the fact that the commenter has the \'balls\' to make it public makes it more even more personal.
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Some way or another, I expect this behaviour will come back and bite the commenter in the arse. :rolleyes:
 
Dragonsreach

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
Well to be honest I think we are basically all \"Singing off the same songsheet\" here.

In respect to the issue that you\'ve been specific with, fair enough the commentators have been critical/dismissive, but at least they have had the courage of their conviction to place their names in the open for others to see.
Even if you completely disagree with their point of view, please respect they are a great deal better than the anonymous \"snipers\" who deliberately target a painters work.

Originally posted by Beelzebrush
2 - \'it\'s horrible\'...

That seems more personal than constructive to me... and the fact that the commenter has the \'balls\' to make it public makes it more even more personal.
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Andy, your statement here shows how different people react to comments.
I didn\'t/don\'t take that as a personal attack towards fredy. In fact I take that as a clear expression of dislike of a particular mini. (Even though I personally wouldn\'t have put a comment up like that. )
Had he said : \"It\'s horrible and your breath stinks\", then it wouldn\'t have passed by the moderators as that would have been a direct attack.


Over the last few weeks there have been a number of hard commentators placing comments on minis, a great number of whom have not had galleries of their own.
Sadly these comments are going vitually unnoticed among the general population of CMON because the comments are hitting people well outside of the scope of the \"Top Ten Last Week\".
While I understand that the \"High Visibility\" of the comments on fredy\'s pictures have raised several large and strong rebuttals, I feel very sorry for the painters in the 3-4-5 region who have also been subject to harsh/cruel criticism and yet have no-one to champion their corner.
It is in fact due to this insurgence that I have started to vote and comment again after quite a considerable break.
 
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Beelzebrush

Active member
Ok Mike...

If scoring a mid 9 mini at \'2 - it\'s horrible\' is fair and just criticism, then I stand corrected. It would have been far better to have justified this vote with a good reason. A score of 2 is considerably lower than tabletop.... which this mini clearly isn\'t. So in essence, and disregarding the freedom of saying what-the-hell-you-like-as-long-as-you-claim-authorship rhetoric... this is total BS! The original commentor (who, funnily enough, has now been deleted!! (which is a pity)) clearly did so out of spite/jealously/dislike for Fredy or some other spurious reason. Whichever reason, it doesn\'t fit in with the spirit of cmon in my opinion.

I happen to dislike Fredy\'s mini too. However, I can\'t possibly score it any lower than 8 due to the level of workmanship, effort and obvious skill involved.
 
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Ritual

New member
Originally posted by Beelzebrush
If scoring a mid 9 mini at \'2 - it\'s horrible\' is fair and just criticism, then I stand corrected. It would have been far better to have justified this vote with a good reason. A score of 2 is considerably lower than tabletop.... which this mini clearly isn\'t. So in essence, and disregarding the freedom of saying what-the-hell-you-like-as-long-as-you-claim-authorship rhetoric... this is total BS! The original commentor (who, funnily enough, has now been deleted!! (which is a pity)) clearly did so out of spite/jealously/dislike for Fredy or some other spurious reason. Whichever reason, it doesn\'t fit in with the spirit of cmon in my opinion.
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Considering the fact that the lowest scoring mini on the site is at 2.1 I agree that \"It\'s horrible!\" is a very poor explanation for giving out the score of 2 to this mini.
 
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skeeve

Member
Theory of scoring again - lotsa boring numbers below. Carnosaur at this moment has 180 votes with average 8.8. I don\'t know exactly how average is calculated, but I assume it is simple average.

Again, let\'s assume that this score was the result of 150 people voting 9 and 30 people voting 8 (this is 8.83). Let\'s assume that instead of\" 9\" 5 people gave 1. While this would drop the score by 0.2 points to 8.6, it will not radically change it. Now, if the ratio of people who normally gives 8 and 9 remains the same the old score (8.8) will be restored at about 350-380 votes.

So, while scores and comments like this could be upsetting they hardly change overall picture. Also, if people really want to minimize the effect of outliers on scoring you can always make a more complex script that calculate average, standard deviation, removes all scores that fall out of, say two or three standard deviations and then recalculate average again. I bet, though that in 99.9% of cases this procedure will not change scores significantly :]

PS. It could be just me, but often I see very harsh criticism coming from people who don\'t contribute much themselves (or don\'t contribute anything)
 
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Ogrebane

Active member
Someone must have pulled the comment. I guess we all take the risk of being sniped when we present our work. I think a score like that shows a bit of jelousy but I agree that at least he had the nads to put his name to it.
 
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Dammekkos2

New member
The comments seem to have been deleted, but I agree with most of the stuff said so far. Comments on the whole need to be justifiable.

I think that Demonherald\'s carnosaur is over-rated. I very much like his painting and have left positive comments and votes in his gallery on previous occasions, but that carnosaur was in the low 9s when I first saw it. Comparing it to Matt Parkes\' famous carnosaur it doesn\'t compare well. I would rate it at 7.5, mainly because of the size and difficulty of the piece.

I also always thought Fredy\'s stuff was a bit over-rated too, a lot of this due to the poor photos in his gallery, but also because better stuff, imho, on this site scores lower (\"IN HOC SIGNO VINCES\" used to be at #5 or something).

I don\'t generally leave critical comments though.

Is MINOS\'s gallery working correctly? I can\'t see his pics.
 
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matty1001

New member
I think theyve been removed now, i noticed them last week, they were more personal than actually rating the paint job and work.
 
Dragonsreach

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
Originally posted by Dragonsreach
...I take that as a clear expression of dislike of a particular mini. (Even though I personally wouldn\'t have put a comment up like that. )...
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Andy I\'m standing by what I said, It was Fuzzicato\'s comment, not mine.
I happen to disagree with it, but I am not Fuzzicato and can\'t speak or make his votes for him.
I didn\'t say that it was a fair or just crticism, just an expression (somewhat extreme) of dislike.

Personally I also think that this is not Fredy\'s best work. I like the fresco but not the figure.
 
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vincegamer

Active member
I agree with Tony that the angel is not as good as the wall, but I still wouldn\'t give it a 6. If that\'s a 6 I hate to see what Tony gives my stuff.
Oh, and Tony clearly is not jealous.

I\'m with Mike 100% here. Post a 2 and a comment. Even if the comment is not constructive - because then I can PM you and ask for more feedback. I\'m very upset that the comment is gone.
Oh, and you CANNOT know his reasons for giving it, no matter how many bad reasons you imagine.
 
MPJ

MPJ

New member
The first one really isnt\' that good. The base is excellent but from what I can tell the mini isn\'t really anything special. 9.2 is a great rating.

The second mini seems scored overall about right at 8.8. That might be a touch high if anything. While careful attention has been paid to colouring the details are not picked out espically well.
 
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the alleycat

New member
I always have a bit of a personal debate when i can see that a mini has been well painted, but still leaves me cold.

I guess i\'m saying that scores are subjective based on a lot of criteria. However, i also believe that if you\'re going to pop a low score at a higher scoring mini, or one you really did debate with yourself over, then the decent thing to do would be post a comment with your reasoning
 
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