fresh blood, anyone?

Ritual

New member
@Farin
Ok, you asked for it... :twisted: Here comes a little music history lesson:

What would later be labelled as goth started long before The Smiths (and The Smiths were never a goth band, although it wasn\'t/isn\'t uncommon for goths to like them). Towards the late 70s you could start seeing punk bands developing their sound in different directions. Some of them turned to a darker, more twisted and sometimes quirkier sound with a more deliberate sense of aesthetics, both in music, style and performance.

Siouxsie & The Banshees, who\'d been part of the punk scene for a few years, released their second album Join Hands in 1979. This album had a distinctly darker sound and a very different overall character than the usual punk music. And one of the bands most prominent characteristics was the singer and her quite unique style.
A single from the album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77fZC04H_C4

Another punk band turning to a darker and weirder sound was UK Decay. They started in 1978, but already after one or two singles they clearly started heading a different direction. Some claim the first time the word \"gothic\" were first used to describe a band in British music press was with reference to UK Decay sometime in the early 80s.
From their third single, 1980: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMdmrnzcyfc

Another important band that surfaced in the late 70s were Bauhaus, coming more from an art school environment than being part of the original punk scene. Thanks to a unique sound and a sense of theatrics in their performance, mainly by the singer, they made a strong impact.
Their first single, from 1979: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mriBc6NjUhg

In the early 80s the sound of a certain clique of the \"post-punk\" bands of (mostly) the UK became more and more disconnected from the punk sound and certain common aesthetics could be identified. These bands often had a rather devote audience that followed them around when they were touring. This became a subculture of its own.

Some noteable early bands:

Sex Gang Children (another contender for the first band to be called \"goth\"): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTgDfSF_2Pk

Virgin Prunes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMMHf2mJV1g

Play Dead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvU9x9koIXE

Now, I realise that most of this probably sound gloomy, and of course, the sound IS dark. But there is humour to be found as well in lyrics and the band\'s often theatrical performances. None of the bands I\'ve linked to here took themselves very seriously (at least not back then). This music brings a smile to my face, at least. It certainly doesn\'t make me depressed. :)

Ok, enough about this... Back to discussing drinking blood.
 

Farin

New member
@Ritual: Thanks a lot :beer:

Except for the banshees , i never heard of any of these bands, But one can definetely hear how the music became more and more different from Punkrock , Kind of weird that that two stiles of music that are so different, share the same root, but than again , historically punk goes back all the way to rythm ´n´ blues

personaly, when i think of goth music i think of bands like \"das Ich\"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNZVMzHVKu4

or ASP :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZJZ94PbXoY


or in general more of the whole industrial/wave music

Now, I realise that most of this probably sound gloomy, and of course, the sound IS dark. But there is humour to be found as well in lyrics and the band\'s often theatrical performances. None of the bands I\'ve linked to here took themselves very seriously (at least not back then). This music brings a smile to my face, at least. It certainly doesn\'t make me depressed.

Hey , i believe you, as i have seen the same problem with the ASP song i linked. The title means \"I´m a true Satan\", so naturally many people complain abouit this dark , twisted music , sometimes even yelling something like devil music... . Problem is, that this song is not even remotely about religion or devil worshipping, it´s a rather clever written warning about wrong prophets , fascism and a society looking away - unfortunately many people seem to be unable to understand this ( Satan originally means prosecutor , and that´s exactly what the singer does in this song: accusing society to look away when racism flares up ) - too bad so many people nevber listen to the lyrics:rolleyes:

okay, back to blood sucking lol
 

Einion

New member
Originally posted by Farin
...instead of the original vampire myth...
This was actually touched on here only recently, which one would that be?
Originally posted by Farin
...the misunderstood loner who´s longing for the right girl.
The seminal vampire story in English could be said to be about a loner who\'s longing for the right girl!


Originally posted by Occultist
A Vampire is just what I am.
ROFLCAKES
Originally posted by Occultist
Well, I\'ve learned in my lives...
Lives, plural, I love it.
Originally posted by Occultist
I find it amusing how little people really know/understand about some things. \"Gothic angsty vampire trend\"......well, you are certainly entitled to your thoughts/opinions.
Hilarious! Vampires as we\'ve come to know them today are all about the gothic, since their origin was gothic horror novels.

As for the \"serious and proud\" so-called vampiric community worldwide, proud maybe, but serious? Gimme a break. A totally artificial *lifestyle choice* (where are the air quotes when you need them), one that is about as rooted in the facts of vampiric myth as my left foot, makes it about as legitimate as Scientology.

I can say one thing with certainty from researching the Continental origins of vampire stories, if they were real and one of you met a upir you\'d bout wet yourself lol


Originally posted by ScottRadom
Psi Vamp? I don\'t even know how that could be real. Like, stealing thoughts? Man, I am off to google some of this stuff. It sounds absolutely bat shit nuts.
Don\'t waste your time Scott... unless you believe in psychics and mediums.

Einion
 

Tsinatas

New member
Einion, I totally respect your views and beliefs, and I would appreciate it if you at least had the decency to return that favour to me. It\'s fine that you don\'t believe in modern vampirism and that you see it as something to laugh at, but as I\'ve been told many times in life \"If you don\'t have anything nice to say, don\'t say anything at all\".
I do not appreciate your post, especially the part where you flat out laugh at my post about me being a vampire, that was just rude in my opinion.
I see Vampirism in a very spiritual way, almost like a religion. What you just did was basically the same thing as laughing at someone for being a Christian, or any other religion.

I\'m proud of my spirituality and lifestyle, and I would appreciate it if you would respect it, just as I would yours.
 

Einion

New member
And here I thought vampires didn\'t care about what people thought of them? :D

Originally posted by Occultist
Einion, I totally respect your views and beliefs...
Do you really? Without knowing what they are? Hmm, interesting.
Originally posted by Occultist
...and I would appreciate it if you at least had the decency to return that favour to me.
\"I find it amusing how little people really know/understand about some things.\" That\'s respectful is it?

That aside, your standards are not mine and just like you don\'t want me to impose my views on you you need to realise you\'re trying to impose your standards on me. So, uh, no.
Originally posted by Occultist
It\'s fine that you don\'t believe in modern vampirism...
It\'s fine is it? Okay then, why are you taking issue with me expressing this position then? ;)
Originally posted by Occultist
I do not appreciate your post, especially the part where you flat out laugh at my post about me being a vampire, that was just rude in my opinion.
Vampire :rolleyes:

You suck blood from the living as your only sustenance - you eat no food and drink no other liquids? You can get through locked doors or barred windows? Do you shun daylight and reside in a grave during the day and come out at night?

Are you dead?

Vampires don\'t exist - unless you want to use a No True Scotsman argument and alter the definition - so disbelief (and yes, even laughter) is naturally going to be expressed by someone claiming to be one, just as would happen if someone posted that they\'re an ogre, werewolf, fairie, windigo, ghoul, golem, succubus or leprechaun.
Originally posted by Occultist
I see Vampirism in a very spiritual way, almost like a religion. What you just did was basically the same thing as laughing at someone for being a Christian, or any other religion.
Did you seriously just equate a fringe belief in a fictional creature - even mythological wouldn\'t be stretching it - with an established world religion with hundreds of millions of followers?
Originally posted by Occultist
I\'m proud of my spirituality and lifestyle and I would appreciate it if you would respect it, just as I would yours.
Well, you just showed you don\'t respect my lifestyle since part of it involves confronting things openly I don\'t believe are tenable :cool:

Einion
 

slah

New member
Originally posted by Einion
Originally posted by Occultist
I see Vampirism in a very spiritual way, almost like a religion. What you just did was basically the same thing as laughing at someone for being a Christian, or any other religion.
Did you seriously just equate a fringe belief in a fictional creature - even mythological wouldn\'t be stretching it - with an established world religion with hundreds of millions of followers?

Even though I don´t belive in a thing called vampires, I have to say that his claim isn´t more outrageous than 100 million people beliving in God. The number of people - or the length of the time the religion has existed - doesn´t really say anything about it´s validity (in terms of whether or not it´s true at least).

Religion in any form is based on beliefs - if not it becomes science. Saying that what one person belives in is (more) wrong than what 100 million people belive isn´t logical.
 

freakinacage

Well-known member
Originally posted by slah

Even though I don´t belive in a thing called vampires, I have to say that his claim isn´t more outrageous than 100 million people beliving in God. The number of people - or the length of the time the religion has existed - doesn´t really say anything about it´s validity (in terms of whether or not it´s true at least).

Religion in any form is based on beliefs - if not it becomes science. Saying that what one person belives in is (more) wrong than what 100 million people belive isn´t logical.
good point
 

Tsinatas

New member
Einion, I respects everyones lifestyle and religion, what right do I have to tell someone that the way they live is wrong?

I have no problem with you explaining yourself and giving your views on the topic of Vampirism, but I feel that your previous post was an attack on me (You flat out laughed at me), and I really don\'t appreciate it. Your posts are very blatantly making fun of me, and i would appreciate it if you would not do that anymore.

Also, I\'m not going to sit here and discuss this with you anymore, because I know from previous posts that you always seem to have something to say, and no matter what I say, you will still decide to bash it and make fun of it in any way you can, so good day to you.

I\'m sorry I even opened my mouth about Vampirism, and I\'m sorry to the OP for causing trouble on your post.
 

Einion

New member
@slah, you\'re absolutely correct, the amount of time something\'s been around and the number of people who believe have no bearing on its validity. However if you check I didn\'t say that it did; I expressed incredulity that someone would equate the two.

Let\'s not beat around the bush here: vampires aren\'t real, provably so*. Ergo anyone that uses them as a basis for a spiritual belief cannot reasonably expect to be taken seriously. Church Of Jedi anyone?

*As I alluded to above, only by using a No True Scotsman argument is there even the vaguest possibility of a valid claim of vampirism, in essence changing the very definition (being alive for one, big stumbling block right there!) I\'d bet a sizeable sum right here and now, my entire mini collection, all my brushes and a bar of O\'Conaill\'s chocolate (and I take chocolate very seriously) that everyone in the world who claims to be a vampire has a pulse for a start and doesn\'t subsist on blood :cool:

@Occultist, nice avoiding of the issues. If you can\'t answer some perfectly reasonable questions about pertinent facts then you\'re right to bow out.

Oh and about the \"I respects everyones lifestyle and religion\" thing... what if I believed in sacrificing babies for a good harvest? That one\'s called reductio ad absurdum by the way, in case you want to look it up.

Einion
 

Tsinatas

New member
1- Modern Vampires aren\'t undead
2- We don\'t live off of only blood, we enjoy food
3- We don\'t burst into flames in sunlight (I, however, am nocturnal, by choice)

Sanguinary Vampires drink blood because it is seen as the \"pure essence of life\", it satisfies a craving and/or a defficiency that they have. Most feel that they are missing something that they can only get by drinking blood.

I am a Psychic Vampire, meaning I don\'t drink blood (only on rare occasions). I feed from the life energies of others. I feed because I feel that my soul is incomlpete, and I don\'t replenish my life energies as quickly as others do. When I fail to feed I feel very depressed and emotionally and physically weak. I often get headaches, too.

Most of us Vampires of the modern movement use the word \"Vampyre\", to differentiate ourselves from the \"Vampires\" of old. We use term in the sense that we take \"life\" from others, and this is where people such as Wiccans have a problem, because they rightfully see it as wrong to inflict any type of harm to anyone. Yes, there are Vampyres that harm people, but they are usually shunned by other Vampyres. Most Vampyres are very ethical in their feeding. I for example will only ever take ANYTHING from someone who is completely willing to give it to me, and when a Psi Vamp is feeding from you it can actually produce a very relaxed, sometime tingly feeling. Luckily, I have an amazing girlfriend who is very kind to me.

I will admit that you need to be imaginative, and quite open-minded to believe in this, but I can assure you it is very real. There is quite the mystical world out there for those of us willing to see it.

As for sacrificing babies for a good harvest, I certainly don\'t approve of it, and i wouldn\'t let my babies near you, but who am I to tell you that you can\'t do it. Worse crimes have been committed in the name of religion.
 

supervike

Super Moderator
*putting on moderator hat*


Ok, since the sidebar argument is causing heated and unneccesary personal attacks, lets say it ends here, with me getting the last word on it.

If we want to still discuss the original post, that\'s fine, but straying back into this unwelcomed territory will cause this thread to be closed.

Thanks!
 

supervike

Super Moderator
Originally posted by wiccanpony
:innocent: what does a moderator hat look like:innocent:


BeerHatGuy2.jpg


But the creepy thing is the fact that I\'m not wearing anything else.....:drunk:
 

Ritual

New member
Funny that your moderator hat looks like that, Jim. Sven\'s look like this:


pd-pe-130114-lg.jpg


I wonder what Mike\'s look like... :]
 
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