AinuLainour
New member
Andrew, what\'s your last name? I am curious to see if I know your name from past competetions.
GD Baltimore 2006
- Thread starter Duende
- Start date
M
Molebrain
Guest
Well, Victors piece was better than anything else there- I dont\' think there\'s anyone that would really argue that. The judges felt that it was too far out of their \"theme\" so they gave him a silver. With him out of the picture though, Todd certainly deserved the sword.
That pic of my piece is harsh! I\'ll get some pics up tonight.
Zach
ps- Dave you coming to GenCon this year?
emopainterguy
New member
Similar?! Those look identical right down to the bases, with the exception of the addition exarch(champion thing?).
timshinn73
New member
Here are my entries, incase anyone\'s interested:
40K Large: Knarloc Rider 1
40K Large: Knarloc Rider 2
40K Single: Black Templar Chaplain
40K Squad: Ork Skarboyz
40K Squad: Nob
40K Squad: Skarboy 1
40K Squad: Skarboy 2
40K Squad: Skarboy 3
40K Squad: Skarboy 4
WH Fantasy Single: Ogre Standard Bearer
Open: Dwarf Steam Tank
LOTR Single: Sharku On Warg
These all made first cut, which ain\'t bad, I guess, for my first GD. Thanks for takin\' a look!
40K Large: Knarloc Rider 1
40K Large: Knarloc Rider 2
40K Single: Black Templar Chaplain
40K Squad: Ork Skarboyz
40K Squad: Nob
40K Squad: Skarboy 1
40K Squad: Skarboy 2
40K Squad: Skarboy 3
40K Squad: Skarboy 4
WH Fantasy Single: Ogre Standard Bearer
Open: Dwarf Steam Tank
LOTR Single: Sharku On Warg
These all made first cut, which ain\'t bad, I guess, for my first GD. Thanks for takin\' a look!
timshinn73
New member
Originally posted by Medved
ok well if Adam Benesz wasn\'t in Baltimore last weekend then we may have a repeat of games day in LA
i know that he sold a few of his demon winning works quite a while back..............there is no difference, those are the same minis.
anybody know who won with them?
Looks like that\'s the case. Here\'s another pic from the UK GW site of the same models:
2002 UK 40K Squad Demons
That\'s a shame.
looks like another cheeter, even if the original artist brought the piece, it\'s still against the rules to enter again, but I\'m thinking that probably wasn\'t the case.
Anyway, I know in LA, at demon registration they had a sheet you had to sign, which you stated that you were the original artist who painted the piece, due to the ATL situation, which I believe stated you forfited any prize you won and various other punishments in fine print. So now at least there is a paper trail which should point directly at this person.
Anyway, I know in LA, at demon registration they had a sheet you had to sign, which you stated that you were the original artist who painted the piece, due to the ATL situation, which I believe stated you forfited any prize you won and various other punishments in fine print. So now at least there is a paper trail which should point directly at this person.
Thanks.
I almost feel too embarrassed to even say... the judge told me to make sure I inspect the models from underneith. When I painted I basically always viewed them from the side or from the top.
When I finally had the nerve at home to see what he meant, I saw that I missed a few spots... some obvious some not.
Never thought about inspecting the models from upside down before. I was rushing at the last minute to get all my entries done (took a couple of days off work). Next time I will be looking at all my models underneith before I bring them.
Stupid rookie mistake. ???
I almost feel too embarrassed to even say... the judge told me to make sure I inspect the models from underneith. When I painted I basically always viewed them from the side or from the top.
When I finally had the nerve at home to see what he meant, I saw that I missed a few spots... some obvious some not.
Never thought about inspecting the models from upside down before. I was rushing at the last minute to get all my entries done (took a couple of days off work). Next time I will be looking at all my models underneith before I bring them.
Stupid rookie mistake. ???
V
Vytis
Guest
Well, back from Baltimore and had a great time again. Loved the Slayer winning unit, the Haldir that won LoTR single, and all of the winners were great!
Now, my opinion on the judging
Whether people like it or not, GW will ALWAYS look at how the entries fit into their universe\'s established vision. It is stated right in their rules, and QUITE clearly at that. There are plenty of examples, including Victor\'s Golgotha. As religious of a universe the 40K worlds are, they are NOT Christian. And as another note, I think I heard Victor say that the model WAS DQed from UK Demons for the same religious iconography. Had it been the Emperor and Horus, it would have been the Sword winner. Its that simple.
Dumb? Probably, but that doesnt make the GW judges morons. They are simply following the established rules written at their GamesDay websites. The same rules that say you must enter your own work. When people ignore that rule,and enter someone elses, its a shame, because they shouldn\'t do it. When someone doesn\'t fit their model into the universe, the judges become morons. Extreme examples, to be sure, but the rules ARE posted, and all of them should be followed. Now, one of these rules, entering your own work, is cut and dry, black and white, etc. How one\'s work fits into the universe is NOT black and white, it is each person\'s individual vision. This brings me to another important fact about these contests:
No matter how much any judge can try to be objective, THESE CONTESTS ARE STILL VERY SUBJECTIVE. This is because human beings are opinionated by their very nature, and individual as well. None of what I have stated is a secret at all. GW has their rules posted. People should always know going in what they should expect, and that is NOT just a painting and converting contest, but also a giant advertisement for GW products. This was my 11th GamesDay and Demon contest. I have won 3 Demons and have a dozen First Cut models, including 2 in Baltimore this year, and no matter what people say, I myself believe that there HAS been a consistency in the models that have been winning, in how they look, certain styles, and the like. Have their been entries that I thought should have finished higher? Yep. But I\'m not the judges, and I\'m not one to question the decisions of those same judges in what is most likely just a difference of opinion. If its me and my own model, there is a chance of simply looking or sounding like a sore loser.
So I think of it like this: I know what the rules say, and have experience with the judging. As such, I know reasonably what to expect and, IF I WANT TO, I can enter. I like GW models, and GW employees, but understand why people complain about them all the time (even if some do just because its GW) and agree with some of those complaints. Knowing all this I still enter, because I like to and I\'m good enough to win. But that is my own choice, and if others don\'t enter because they don\'t like GW then that is their choice, and a valid one at that. I still paint what I want, and how I want it, and if I don\'t win then I am fine with that, but I deal pretty well with things not going my way. Just my own happy nature, I guess. But maybe its because I know, as a tabletop gamer, that I am in a group of people that amounts to less than 1% of the population. And of that less than 1%, as a high level painter, I\'m in a small group, maybe 5% or less. That is, in a world of 6 billion, most of whom don\'t even know of this hobby, and the others only know my hobby because they are related to me, I\'m not too much, and so I keep it happy and accepting. There are other Demon contests, and non-GW contests, all of which I would like to enter. If I can, I will, if not, I just want to drink some beer and have some fun.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled non-ranting universe that will hopefully involve more comedy from me. I\'ve got myself a bit of a fun reputation on that to live up to, after all
Now, my opinion on the judging
Whether people like it or not, GW will ALWAYS look at how the entries fit into their universe\'s established vision. It is stated right in their rules, and QUITE clearly at that. There are plenty of examples, including Victor\'s Golgotha. As religious of a universe the 40K worlds are, they are NOT Christian. And as another note, I think I heard Victor say that the model WAS DQed from UK Demons for the same religious iconography. Had it been the Emperor and Horus, it would have been the Sword winner. Its that simple.
Dumb? Probably, but that doesnt make the GW judges morons. They are simply following the established rules written at their GamesDay websites. The same rules that say you must enter your own work. When people ignore that rule,and enter someone elses, its a shame, because they shouldn\'t do it. When someone doesn\'t fit their model into the universe, the judges become morons. Extreme examples, to be sure, but the rules ARE posted, and all of them should be followed. Now, one of these rules, entering your own work, is cut and dry, black and white, etc. How one\'s work fits into the universe is NOT black and white, it is each person\'s individual vision. This brings me to another important fact about these contests:
No matter how much any judge can try to be objective, THESE CONTESTS ARE STILL VERY SUBJECTIVE. This is because human beings are opinionated by their very nature, and individual as well. None of what I have stated is a secret at all. GW has their rules posted. People should always know going in what they should expect, and that is NOT just a painting and converting contest, but also a giant advertisement for GW products. This was my 11th GamesDay and Demon contest. I have won 3 Demons and have a dozen First Cut models, including 2 in Baltimore this year, and no matter what people say, I myself believe that there HAS been a consistency in the models that have been winning, in how they look, certain styles, and the like. Have their been entries that I thought should have finished higher? Yep. But I\'m not the judges, and I\'m not one to question the decisions of those same judges in what is most likely just a difference of opinion. If its me and my own model, there is a chance of simply looking or sounding like a sore loser.
So I think of it like this: I know what the rules say, and have experience with the judging. As such, I know reasonably what to expect and, IF I WANT TO, I can enter. I like GW models, and GW employees, but understand why people complain about them all the time (even if some do just because its GW) and agree with some of those complaints. Knowing all this I still enter, because I like to and I\'m good enough to win. But that is my own choice, and if others don\'t enter because they don\'t like GW then that is their choice, and a valid one at that. I still paint what I want, and how I want it, and if I don\'t win then I am fine with that, but I deal pretty well with things not going my way. Just my own happy nature, I guess. But maybe its because I know, as a tabletop gamer, that I am in a group of people that amounts to less than 1% of the population. And of that less than 1%, as a high level painter, I\'m in a small group, maybe 5% or less. That is, in a world of 6 billion, most of whom don\'t even know of this hobby, and the others only know my hobby because they are related to me, I\'m not too much, and so I keep it happy and accepting. There are other Demon contests, and non-GW contests, all of which I would like to enter. If I can, I will, if not, I just want to drink some beer and have some fun.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled non-ranting universe that will hopefully involve more comedy from me. I\'ve got myself a bit of a fun reputation on that to live up to, after all
no
it makes them hypocritical, moronic, against the true nature of artists, etc...
If only they let slayer sword winners judge models in North America like they do in France, etc.
ANd if you haven\'t realized...40K\'s imagery, much of the names of models, etc is taken from the bible, christianity...
Witchhunters (europe, dark ages I believe), inquisition, the emperor\'s sacrifice (jesus), abaddon (name of the lord of demons in revelation), etc, etc...
Sanjay
it makes them hypocritical, moronic, against the true nature of artists, etc...
If only they let slayer sword winners judge models in North America like they do in France, etc.
ANd if you haven\'t realized...40K\'s imagery, much of the names of models, etc is taken from the bible, christianity...
Witchhunters (europe, dark ages I believe), inquisition, the emperor\'s sacrifice (jesus), abaddon (name of the lord of demons in revelation), etc, etc...
Sanjay
AinuLainour
New member
Thats not his point, Sanjay.
Though 40k may be alike to Christianity in the ways that you described, imagery, names, etc., it is still different to have a mural with Jesus, the Virgin Mary, and baby Jesus on Daemon prince, either than what you say are their 40k equivalents. Say, the Emperor would be more fitting than Jesus, which someone already mentioned.
Secondly, I don\'t think that it\'s appropriate to have Jesus and the Virgin Mary on a satanic-like miniature. And even if the emperor were put in place of Jesus, it still wouldn\'t seem right to have it on the wings or banner of his enemy. I wonder why Victor chose to have Jesus and Mary..
Though 40k may be alike to Christianity in the ways that you described, imagery, names, etc., it is still different to have a mural with Jesus, the Virgin Mary, and baby Jesus on Daemon prince, either than what you say are their 40k equivalents. Say, the Emperor would be more fitting than Jesus, which someone already mentioned.
Secondly, I don\'t think that it\'s appropriate to have Jesus and the Virgin Mary on a satanic-like miniature. And even if the emperor were put in place of Jesus, it still wouldn\'t seem right to have it on the wings or banner of his enemy. I wonder why Victor chose to have Jesus and Mary..
M
Molebrain
Guest
... because they didn\'t represent Jesus and Mary, but the emperor. Each scene on the DP, and there were 6, was meant to represent the emperor in one way or another. And since this was a demon prince, they showed the emperor tainted by chaos in some way in every one.
Glad you liked Haldir by the way, I\'ll have some pics up soon.
Zach
Glad you liked Haldir by the way, I\'ll have some pics up soon.
Zach
V
Vytis
Guest
The point I was trying to make was just about what Ainu said. Yes, I know the imagery in 40K and its almost plagiaristic use of the Bible, Christian imagery and thought processes, and darker times in the history of Christianity, right down to the Gothic atmosphere. I did say that the 40K universe was indeed extremely religious. It does not make them, IMO, hypocritical to deny the imagery by placing that model second, when each and every reference to Jesus that 40K makes uses \'The Emperor\' instead. The 40K universe has forgotten Jesus and replaced him with The Emperor. As such, use of Christian imagery instead of the Emperor is out of place in that context,
and not hypocritical. And I see no use of the names Jesus or Christ in any 40K texts. It is, after all, a fictional universe and not our current day, regardless of the large amount of similarities.
Second, I do very much like Zach\'s look on it, with the stages of the Emperor being \'tainted\' by Chaos, and it does make for some good character. But only a slight few would see that, all things considered. Still, he did also place second to a Slayer Sword winner, with a model that HAS BEEN previously dq\'ed from other Demons. And it will likely be more remembered than others just from the controversy surrounding it, too.
Totally dug your Haldir, Zach, I\'m a wood elf after all I had the Celeborn in his warrior garb that had made First Cut in that same category, and I know we\'ve chatted before, at Baltimore last year.
and not hypocritical. And I see no use of the names Jesus or Christ in any 40K texts. It is, after all, a fictional universe and not our current day, regardless of the large amount of similarities.
Second, I do very much like Zach\'s look on it, with the stages of the Emperor being \'tainted\' by Chaos, and it does make for some good character. But only a slight few would see that, all things considered. Still, he did also place second to a Slayer Sword winner, with a model that HAS BEEN previously dq\'ed from other Demons. And it will likely be more remembered than others just from the controversy surrounding it, too.
Totally dug your Haldir, Zach, I\'m a wood elf after all
I had the Celeborn in his warrior garb that had made First Cut in that same category, and I know we\'ve chatted before, at Baltimore last year.and you all are missing the BIGGEST failty here (is that the right word)
this is apparently a PAINTING CONTEST.
That model, from everyone who was there, was the best painted...
hence it should win...unless they come out and admit...
at UK, the own GW art/design team admitted it was perfectly within the methos of the game. these are the guys WHO DRAW THE ART IN THE CODEXES!!!!!!
Sorry but regardless what anyone says, that alone means GW is full of it.
Once again, as someone else pointed out..we pay to enter a contest, with resin painted trophies, that break easily, that is free advertising for them...ok..great. since we don\'t have that many options..fine..and it is fun i will admit..but don\'t try and stand up for them ...
anywyas..enough hijacking this thread
Good luck in Toronto (to the person who is making the trip)...i\'ll message you, if you want to meetup with the rest of the CMON people...
Sanjay
this is apparently a PAINTING CONTEST.
That model, from everyone who was there, was the best painted...
hence it should win...unless they come out and admit...
at UK, the own GW art/design team admitted it was perfectly within the methos of the game. these are the guys WHO DRAW THE ART IN THE CODEXES!!!!!!
Sorry but regardless what anyone says, that alone means GW is full of it.
Once again, as someone else pointed out..we pay to enter a contest, with resin painted trophies, that break easily, that is free advertising for them...ok..great. since we don\'t have that many options..fine..and it is fun i will admit..but don\'t try and stand up for them ...
anywyas..enough hijacking this thread
Good luck in Toronto (to the person who is making the trip)...i\'ll message you, if you want to meetup with the rest of the CMON people...
Sanjay
