GD Baltimore 2006

CromBad

New member
Originally posted by StarFyre

at UK, the own GW art/design team admitted it was perfectly within the methos of the game. these are the guys WHO DRAW THE ART IN THE CODEXES!!!!!!

Sanjay

he got disqualified entirely in the UK.

In my opinion, they should have either treated it as any other entry (ie, one without \'religious imagery\'), or disqualified it entirely...not found the \"middle ground\". but I\'m not a judge, so it doesn\'t matter :D
 

AinuLainour

New member
Victor\'s daemonprince is like the DaVinci Code - miniature style!

Molebrain, I didn\'t know that you\'re Zach Lanier-:rolleyes: so I didn\'t congratulate for your wins, they were beautiful models, great work!
 

StarFyre

Active member
yes

he was DQ in UK but the art teams said it fit perfectly and he should not have been.

THe judges DQ\'d him.

Sanjay
 

LavronYor

Member
I\'ll reiterate that it should have been in the open category, where the rules say to let your imagination run free, and unable to win the sword. At least as gold in that category, no one could argue that something was painted better.

BTW, Victor handled the slap in the face much better than most. He had it taken out of the case and explained the imagery to Zach and myself and congratulated the other painters. I only hope that he photographs it well, and let\'s everyone see what a true masterpiece looks like.
 

StarFyre

Active member
hmm

In europe, open category, as it should be, can also win a sword. Nano won the sword via the open category...

Sanjay
 
V

Vytis

Guest
Its good you think I\'m standing up for the GW judges, and perhaps I am because they too are human beings, and I am friends with them, and they aren\'t here to defend themselves. Easy to call someone a moron when they aren\'t right there. And if defending them makes ME a moron, hey, dig it, I\'ve been called worse and I know otherwise. Always remember, these are all still opinions we are dealing with, and as such BOTH SIDES ARE RIGHT.

If it was just a PAINTING contest then no one would be able to CONVERT anything. It is an ART contest. I never said I thought Golgotha was inferior to others, it was flat out the best painted AND converted miniature there. And I don\'t really feel the entry that beat it is all that consistent with the universe either, I don\'t think Space Marines would ride dinosaurs, but hey. I was making the point going in that the Demons will always be two things:

An ART contest for the best looking figs..
A GIANT ADVERT for GW Products..

Yes, it is absolutely restrictive. But you know that going in. Yes, it keeps the artistic mind down. But you know that going in. I always enjoy these because I find it challenging as an artist to BE RESTRICTED, to have to keep within the lines, because sometimes thats hard to do, and sometimes YOU HAVE TO DO THAT, no matter how much you want to be a non-conformist.

It\'s their show, and they get the opportunity to promote their products because of it. And, no matter what you want to think, without them and their promotion of the hobby in the 80s and 90s, there is no hobby. Fortunately, other companies are taking up the hobby as well, and improving it and becoming better than GW. This is a good thing. We get great figures from so many places other than GW now, and we have a choice to paint things other than GW.
Because of this, we also have other contests that have no restrictions on them, such as GenCon, where the level of competition is so much higher and better.
 

Duende

New member
Playing Devil\'s Advocate here:

The GD rules do state:

\"As always the judges will be looking for models that are well painted and well presented. In addition, special attention will be paid to how well the model fits into the published concepts of our game backgrounds. This isn\'t to say that creativity will not be rewarded, but it must be conveyed in the atmosphere and spirit of the worlds our games represent.\"

That pretty much means that no matter how well-painted something is, if it doesn\'t fit into thier view of thier world, it just won\'t win.

Personally, I don\'t agree with that, since it takes away it being a real \"painting\" contest since painters will have to take \"marketing worth\" into consideration when choosing and painting figures, which I believe is a limiting factor.
But, hey, it\'s not my company or my competition, so that\'s that.


AND......On another note, just where were all you people -who are posting in this thread NOW - before May13th??!! I would have loved to be able to meet some other CMON\'ers there (you all could have pointed and laughed at my entries), and share painting tips, and compare entries. This thread was dead before GD, but now after the fact is when you all crawl out of the woodwork. Geeez!!!

And I wonder if anything will become of that Gold winning Banshee squad, since it\'s so very obviously the Silver winning squad from UK\'s 2002 GD. Has anybody heard anything about that?

:p:mad::p:mad::p
 

StarFyre

Active member
WELL...

look at Jeremie\'s work in france that won a trophy some years back...I know some find that piece offensive....yet in france, the judging is done quite better IMHO.

And I\'m sure this would have been rewarded more there.
what does that tell me..it\'s not even the company, but the culture of the people and their views.

personally, i find most of society backwards and regretable...

But that\'s just me...

the judges being people...hmm..last i remember, the guys who commited sept 11, or something much much worse than that, holocuast, etc were also people...

in other words..THAT ARGUMENT MEANS NOTHING....

Duende - hehehhehe :) I guess you weren\'t forceful enough heheh :)
Also, are you saying that there is another case of mini fraud here??? the banshee squad?

Sanjay
 
M

Malfoy

Guest
Wow, I\'m agreeing with Sanjay a lot these days. Yeah, the \"judges being people\" doesn\'t quite work for me- they\'re people with a job to do, a responsibility. They are expected to do their job well. If I did my job poorly or performed questionably, my boss wouldn\'t say, \"oh, he\'s just a person.\" The judges should have the highest level of training and committment to the event. Anything less is an insult to the entrants that spend untold hours in preparation.

I\'m not saying they performed poorly in this particular case and I won\'t pretend to know what discussions were had, but I will say that I haven\'t seen any pictures that would suggest Victor\'s \"Golgotha\" wasn\'t the best painted model entered.

Zach- can\'t wait to see some good pictures of your stuff, especially the Haldir. I\'ll definitely be at GenCon. I\'ll be teaching, but not judging-I\'m gonna try and enter some stuff this year.

Dave
 

StarFyre

Active member
oh

Vytis... et al

sorry..i am not upset with anyone here.

and i do believe that people\'s opinions here are good since people backthem up VERY well.

I am upset that in France (best example) since slayer sword winners (the last years) judge, I believe that is one reason why their competition quality of the winners, is always top notch. It appears they go by paint, sculpt quality more so than anything else.

Which should be the case.

No hard feelings :D

btw, I do tell GW what I think of them. I have friends who work for them here :)

Sanjay :)
 

Duende

New member
Originally posted by StarFyre
Also, are you saying that there is another case of mini fraud here??? the banshee squad?

Sanjay

Most stuff was said on it last page but here are some links (just for you! ;) ):

2002 UK GD Coverage- 40K Squad page

Stuff of Legends Baltimore 2006 Pic- 40K squad

It\'s only missing Jain Zar and the nice base. ....And Adam Benesz\'s presence (I think. I don\'t know him, was he there?)

*EDIT* Seems Avelorn and I posted simutaneously, with him being just a hair quicker. :)
 

Orb

procrastinator
I think the best thing we can do is accept Golden Demons for what they are; GAMESWORKSHOP\'s own competition. They make the rules, they assign the judges, create the categories. It\'s theirs!

I don\'t like it; but I\'ll enter because it\'s still one of the most accessible competitions for this genre of miniatures around and it does attract amazing work.

I\'m dissapointed that the methods used to judge and the comp classes themselves vary from show to show, therefore not even two GD\'s are ultimately comparable.

I\'d like to see some consistency across the shows; the French model, to me, seems the most sensible.

Maybe a perk of winning a Slayer sword would be to be part of a judging team consisting of other sword winners from other shows judging at future GD\'s! Guests of honour! Oh with a GW rep making sure the IP is correct!
 

Avelorn

Sven Jonsson
@duende: :) I missed the discussion on page 2. But I\'ve PM:d Adam, has someone got in touch with GW? I know Steve Fuller is on cmon.

I very much doubt that Adam would re-enter 4 year old minis in a competition in US.

Damn, I can\'t believe this is happening again. :mad:
 

StarFyre

Active member
i think it will continue

with the prevalance of professional artists using minis as a method to gain more art skill and cash, via their contract work, and with the experienced hobbyists doing the same (much via CMON references), I think people will see this as an easy way to get a trophy and add it to their mantle.

what they seem to forget, is that strong, dedicated communities like this one, watch over and protect their own....

hence CMON people notice it first.

Sanjay
 
M

Molebrain

Guest
I definitely agree that last years sword winner should be a judge. I can\'t for the life of me figure out why they wouldn\'t do that here.

Good to see that you\'ll be entering Dave, can\'t wait to see what you come up with.

Zach
 

monkeyboy30672

New member
Originally posted by Avelorn
@duende: :) I missed the discussion on page 2. But I\'ve PM:d Adam, has someone got in touch with GW? I know Steve Fuller is on cmon.

I very much doubt that Adam would re-enter 4 year old minis in a competition in US.

Damn, I can\'t believe this is happening again. :mad:

Yes, we have been notified, and we are in the middle of investigating it currently.
 

EricJ

Active member
Originally posted by StarFyre
with the prevalance of professional artists using minis as a method to gain more art skill and cash, via their contract work, and with the experienced hobbyists doing the same (much via CMON references), I think people will see this as an easy way to get a trophy and add it to their mantle.

what they seem to forget, is that strong, dedicated communities like this one, watch over and protect their own....

hence CMON people notice it first.

Sanjay

Sadly, I think this might be a fairly accurate prediction. So far it\'s 2 of 3 US GD\'s that have had this happen. And cmon is 2 for 2 in noticing (and noticing fast!)

Dirty, some really nice photos you got up so far!
 
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