Gencon painting competition complaints?
- Thread starter squidders
- Start date
Dragon Forge Design
New member
Originally posted by squidders
I really wish I could have gone.
Well do like I do for my trips to the UK and France..start a savings account for the trip a year in advance and start saving. I know myself if I think twice about what I spend money on and instead put a few bucks at a time in a savings account it adds up fast. I quit going out a lot or drink less when I did. It adds up fast. I also ebay off lots of the accumulated crap I have around here.. Ive paid for a couple trips with ebay sales.
In this day and age people expect instant gratification even if they have no right to the praise. You sat on the bench all game but you came, so have a trophy. You painted this minature all by yourself and your 34, well then have this trophy because you rock. What? Someone did somethign better then you, why of course they cheated, it wasn\'t fair and you should have won.
So you lost, so someone was better then you... it happens. Sure it feels good to win a competition, i\'ve won a few local comps and it tickles me when i do. However i don\'t feel bad if someone better wins, they deserved it so why whine and cry about it? I know my painting sucks, Whiz helped me a lot some time back but i still suck at it. I paint for table play most of the time. But knowing how crappy i paint i can promise if i ever get to gencon i\'ll enter something and when i lose i\'ll be proud to say i got my arse handed to me by much better painters.
So you lost, so someone was better then you... it happens. Sure it feels good to win a competition, i\'ve won a few local comps and it tickles me when i do. However i don\'t feel bad if someone better wins, they deserved it so why whine and cry about it? I know my painting sucks, Whiz helped me a lot some time back but i still suck at it. I paint for table play most of the time. But knowing how crappy i paint i can promise if i ever get to gencon i\'ll enter something and when i lose i\'ll be proud to say i got my arse handed to me by much better painters.
Talonicus
New member
I couldn\'t agree more with everything said in this thread. I hate to see people blaming others for thier own failings.
The greatest lesson I ever learned when at college studying art was to critique my own work truthfully and harshly.
You can never improve if you cannot accept that you are not perfect and someone else is better.
Get over yourself and your belief you are \"owed\" something for nothing and the road to improving your painting or whatever else suddenly becomes easier.
This society of all winners and no losers really annoys the hell out of me. My kids chool sports day no longer has actual events that have a winner, instead everyone wins? makes no sense to me.
Life is all about winning and losing. Learn it!
Ok whinge and rant over.
Time to blame my wife for my inability to sing, dance and last more than 30 secs.
lol
umm she may actally be responsible for the last one.
The greatest lesson I ever learned when at college studying art was to critique my own work truthfully and harshly.
You can never improve if you cannot accept that you are not perfect and someone else is better.
Get over yourself and your belief you are \"owed\" something for nothing and the road to improving your painting or whatever else suddenly becomes easier.
This society of all winners and no losers really annoys the hell out of me. My kids chool sports day no longer has actual events that have a winner, instead everyone wins? makes no sense to me.
Life is all about winning and losing. Learn it!
Ok whinge and rant over.
Time to blame my wife for my inability to sing, dance and last more than 30 secs.
lol
umm she may actally be responsible for the last one.
The only thing I even vaguely disagree with at gencon is allowing more than 1 entry per category, but ultimately I don\'t see that as a big deal either really.
I agree with most of what\'s said and personally believe that losing can be FAR more beneficial than winning since for those that are very competitive, it becomes a motivating factor. Hell, I entered a mini this year that I started the day before and painted in the exhibit hall in about 5 hours. Even though I knew it had no shot at anything (which it didn\'t), I knew it would be fun to compete and be involved, and I am sure a LOT more motivated to actually come with a real entry next year (because I hate losing!...even if I knew in advance I would).
I agree with most of what\'s said and personally believe that losing can be FAR more beneficial than winning since for those that are very competitive, it becomes a motivating factor. Hell, I entered a mini this year that I started the day before and painted in the exhibit hall in about 5 hours. Even though I knew it had no shot at anything (which it didn\'t), I knew it would be fun to compete and be involved, and I am sure a LOT more motivated to actually come with a real entry next year (because I hate losing!...even if I knew in advance I would).
GenCon is the majors; if people want to play in the \"bigs\", then they better be ready for it. Like professional baseball players, you have to spend some time in the minors preparing for \"The Show\". Enter online contests, listen to the advice and feedback you get there, keep practicing and eventually you\'ll be able to actually compete in the big leagues.
As I said before, I didn\'t even make the first cut at GenCon, but the biggest thrill for me was watching people not only looking at my mini sitting there in the display case, but actually taking pictures of it! It may not have been all that great, but something about it drew some people and that was a real treat to see that.
I\'m with DFD also: where are these threads at that are complaining? I haven\'t seen any (yet).
As I said before, I didn\'t even make the first cut at GenCon, but the biggest thrill for me was watching people not only looking at my mini sitting there in the display case, but actually taking pictures of it! It may not have been all that great, but something about it drew some people and that was a real treat to see that.
I\'m with DFD also: where are these threads at that are complaining? I haven\'t seen any (yet).
Roger Bunting
New member
Actually, Simon Cowell is a judge on that programme. Pop Idol started here before he started it in the US. Then he changed the format some 3 years ago and it\'s now called the X Factor. Matty, Ant and Dec haven\'t presented or done the backstage stuff since it was Pop Idol. I know too much about this, although I only watch the early auditions. Some people should really get a clue.
My opinion on this issue boils down to this:
I want to compete against the best. If at some point I am fortunate enough to have my miniatures place over Marike or any other \"world class\" painter, then I will be happy that I earned it. I want my wins to come as a result of hard work, not because I feel anyone owes me something.
Of course another option is to do it for the art and enjoy the fact that thousands of people are admiring your work. :idea:
~edited to sound less....assish.
I want to compete against the best. If at some point I am fortunate enough to have my miniatures place over Marike or any other \"world class\" painter, then I will be happy that I earned it. I want my wins to come as a result of hard work, not because I feel anyone owes me something.
Of course another option is to do it for the art and enjoy the fact that thousands of people are admiring your work. :idea:
~edited to sound less....assish.
SaxonAngel
nada
As a judge and former competitor in the Gencon Comp I will say what I have said many, many times: People have to stop pissing and moaning like 4 year old spoiled children. Study the work of those who have placed above you and try to improve. It\'s the only way to get better.
Would you ban a former sports champion or football team from the playoffs the next season? No...didn\'t think so.
As an asshole and future competitor I \'ll say : If these whiners absolutely HAVE TO WIN a painting comp for their fragile egos they ought to head off to one at their local game store, not try to play with the big guns at a world class event. We encourage every one and anyone to enter, but if it\'s going to destroy your life to get beaten by someone that\'s actually BETTER than you at it... well...
And no, we don\'t know the names of those who enter unless they had already posted their work on CMON or something. Most top painters tend to hide their entries from public view until the comp\' anyways.
There was a time when Marike didn\'t even make first cut and she was already working for Croc and Reaper. She was disappointed back then ...yes. But guess what kiddies?! She got a helluva alot better and took the overall prize the next year.
And Rodnick... I liked your entry alot (heck, I love dwarves so maybe I\'m biased), but I can\'t remember if it made first cut either. :redface:
Would you ban a former sports champion or football team from the playoffs the next season? No...didn\'t think so.
As an asshole and future competitor I \'ll say : If these whiners absolutely HAVE TO WIN a painting comp for their fragile egos they ought to head off to one at their local game store, not try to play with the big guns at a world class event. We encourage every one and anyone to enter, but if it\'s going to destroy your life to get beaten by someone that\'s actually BETTER than you at it... well...
And no, we don\'t know the names of those who enter unless they had already posted their work on CMON or something. Most top painters tend to hide their entries from public view until the comp\' anyways.
There was a time when Marike didn\'t even make first cut and she was already working for Croc and Reaper. She was disappointed back then ...yes. But guess what kiddies?! She got a helluva alot better and took the overall prize the next year.
And Rodnick... I liked your entry alot (heck, I love dwarves so maybe I\'m biased), but I can\'t remember if it made first cut either. :redface:
beowulfthehunter
New member
Golly I love these topics. It always boils down to people getting on a high horse calling the others cry babbies and to grow up. Wow, golf clap, I am sure you tell a guy on a wheel chair basketball team to get over it because he can\'t dunk.
Did the people who won deserve to? Hell yes, I saw some of those models and they where incredible. That being said there needs to be tiers for the painting competition. With the huge ammount of talent we have many will get lost in the cracks.
I mean would you take your 12 year old and allow him to compete in the NFL. He would not have a Cubs World Series chance and would get hurt bad. Just as there are levels so should there be in painting.
I know I am not the best, I know with practice I would still not be the best however I still think I have some talent and would love to compete with those who are on my level.
Part of a competition is to have fun is it fun to get creamed with no chance?
so go ahead and call me a bleading heart and tell me to grow up, but thats my 2 cents.
Did the people who won deserve to? Hell yes, I saw some of those models and they where incredible. That being said there needs to be tiers for the painting competition. With the huge ammount of talent we have many will get lost in the cracks.
I mean would you take your 12 year old and allow him to compete in the NFL. He would not have a Cubs World Series chance and would get hurt bad. Just as there are levels so should there be in painting.
I know I am not the best, I know with practice I would still not be the best however I still think I have some talent and would love to compete with those who are on my level.
Part of a competition is to have fun is it fun to get creamed with no chance?
so go ahead and call me a bleading heart and tell me to grow up, but thats my 2 cents.
There are different levels to painting competitions: you can enter at your FLGS; there are many, many online competitions; you can even organize your own if you know enough mini painters in your area.
But if you\'re going to go to GenCon or the Golden Demons or any other place where you know that the big leaguers are playing, then you either better push yourself to do the absolute best that you can or be prepared to lose. And if you do lose, then accept it graciously and tell yourself that you\'re going to try even harder for next time.
Hahaha, I can just imagine some 20 handicapper insisting that he be allowed to use his handicap since he\'s playing in a tournament with Tiger Woods.
Now, it may have been a little boring to watch F1 for a while when Michael Schumacher was unbeatable overall, but that\'s an entirely different issue.
\"I want to stand a chance at winning a national competition but really, I\'m not that good, but c\'mon, it\'s only fair\"
Be careful of wishing for justice, you just might get it. When you really level the playing field, it turns out that only very few are great. Isn\'t that the point of a national competition?
Now, it may have been a little boring to watch F1 for a while when Michael Schumacher was unbeatable overall, but that\'s an entirely different issue.
\"I want to stand a chance at winning a national competition but really, I\'m not that good, but c\'mon, it\'s only fair\"
Be careful of wishing for justice, you just might get it. When you really level the playing field, it turns out that only very few are great. Isn\'t that the point of a national competition?
SaxonAngel
nada
Interesting you use this..
Wheelchair Basketball athletes are actually rated on a point system depending on the level of their disability. The teams in a league are built on a predetermined number of total points based on the various disability levels of their players. Very abled bodied wheelchair athletes play alongside full parapalegia below the chest players on the same team. Thus mixing players of all levels on the same team. However ONLY disabled athlethes are allowed to play. And they don\'t ask for a lower net either. It\'s 10 feet just like a normal court hoop. So I\'d say they\'ve \"gotten over it\"
Yup.. Because it\'s the only way to get better. See those guys that kick your ass and admire them. Ask them how they did it and how they figure YOU can improve.
I spent six months of my life this year sculpting and painting a model that got creamed by the competition at a GD this year. I didn\'t stand a chance. I\'m not mad or bitter or whining. I did the best I could do under the circumstances. I\'m proud of my mediocre figure AND I \'ve gotten the kick in the ass to try and bring my skills up to a higher level.
Also as far as a \"kid\" is concerned;
My 8yr old son was in a regional youngbloods comp last year. I told him him before he even dropped off his model he was NOT going to win. When the announcements came he sniffled a bit because he didn\'t place. But ya know what? He\'s trying to improve and is chomping at the bit to come to a gamesday with me next year.
You said it...
How can you compete with people of your level ?? Wouldn\'t that be an automatic tie ? Competition is about seeing who\'s the best so competition between people of the same level is hardly interesting
But you do have some good points, I would most definetly support a junior category, to make sure we don\'t throw the poor 12 year old in the NHL league. And I would also agree on a disabled category, seems only fair
But quite, Franckly I don\'t support a \"I\'m not really good but still want a prize\" category, if I ever win somthing I want it because I deserve it, not because somebody took pity and decided I should have a chance.
darthfoley
Active member
I can see both sides of this one.
I personally enjoy putting my figures in a case with \'the best\' and seeing how close I am (or ain\'t, lol) to the next level. Even those times when I feel that the winners aren\'t particularly impressive, it gives me a better idea of what to aim for next time.
However, I can say that it\'s a little offputting to see, for instance, the Reaper manufacturer awards get swept by people who paint for Reaper anyway. No reason or sense in complaining about it, though...just more incentive to work harder.
Or just enjoy painting and not worry about competing.
I personally enjoy putting my figures in a case with \'the best\' and seeing how close I am (or ain\'t, lol) to the next level. Even those times when I feel that the winners aren\'t particularly impressive, it gives me a better idea of what to aim for next time.
However, I can say that it\'s a little offputting to see, for instance, the Reaper manufacturer awards get swept by people who paint for Reaper anyway. No reason or sense in complaining about it, though...just more incentive to work harder.
Or just enjoy painting and not worry about competing.
Roger Bunting
New member
The problem with dividing it up into categories on skill level is who decides at what point is the cutoff. As already mentioned, some pros are not that good, some amateurs will win a lot of times in the big events. If it\'s based on skill level and not pro or amateur status then how would you know which \"division\" you\'re supposed to enter in?
It\'s a can of worms for sure... that\'s why I like the \"stick everyone in the pot and let the cream rise to the top\" format.
Everyone has an equal chance... it\'s not being handicapped if you\'re just an average painter, you\'re just not developed enough... my view is that everyone can train to do better and learn to improve. we\'re all capable.
Everyone has an equal chance... it\'s not being handicapped if you\'re just an average painter, you\'re just not developed enough... my view is that everyone can train to do better and learn to improve. we\'re all capable.
Avelorn
Sven Jonsson
If the same group people enter every competition and win every time. Is it fun then? There is a bit of nonsense going on in this thread that anyone can win a competition over \"all the best\" just if they work hard enough. Well.. they can\'t from many reasons, time and talent are two. It\'s as simple as that and people might not feel like they get the appreciation for their improvment. Is that a problem or are they just whining? I don\'t think they are whining just because they are sour loosers I understand their viewpoint. It can be a problem imo and calling people just to \"grow up\" is not a solution to anything (it can be pretty arrogant actually). It\'s about how you view a competition as well.. should it be fun or should it be some people strutting around and basking in the glory of winning yet another competition against the \"lesser kind\". :innocent:
This is reflected both in local and large competition. Will people even be bothered to enter against \"the best\" if they stand no chance of winning? Or from the other perspective will people who always win be bothered to enter again? It\'s about challenges. You don\'t climb Mountain Everest when you\'ve just started climbing and you won\'t climb a stair for just the challenge of it. There are many ways of solving this problem, in our lgs we used one open category that those of us considered \"the best\" entered out of good spirit. In large competitions you can either use the open system or try to have different categories. So what if people whine about \"devalued\"? It\'s like that in the GD\'s as well.. \"Well the blabla category was really bad quality so the gold you took was.. well not really a gold\" There will always be discussions like that and they are as silly every time.
There is no perfect way of solving this with one set of rules. The only possible answer in the end imo is therefor a myriad of competitions imo so you can choose in a better way what to enter. I like the open system of judging but I also think it would be boring if every major compo was judged that way. For a competitive mind a top 3 award placement can be a strong motivator.
When it comes to the pro\'s \"issue\" it often boils down to this: The history of our hobby and those competitions. People painting minis in basements for their D&D games or warhammer in their spare time vs. people making a living from it painting day and night . Is it the same thing? People might have the same feeling that some have for soccer (or proper football) \"They aren\'t in the spirit of the hobby/sport etc.\". \"back in the days... people entered their lord from their army into the GD\'s and won nowadays it\'s all professionals and it\'s about NMM and freehands and esp. large bases\". Not a true statement but you get the drift.
This is reflected both in local and large competition. Will people even be bothered to enter against \"the best\" if they stand no chance of winning? Or from the other perspective will people who always win be bothered to enter again? It\'s about challenges. You don\'t climb Mountain Everest when you\'ve just started climbing and you won\'t climb a stair for just the challenge of it. There are many ways of solving this problem, in our lgs we used one open category that those of us considered \"the best\" entered out of good spirit. In large competitions you can either use the open system or try to have different categories. So what if people whine about \"devalued\"? It\'s like that in the GD\'s as well.. \"Well the blabla category was really bad quality so the gold you took was.. well not really a gold\" There will always be discussions like that and they are as silly every time.
There is no perfect way of solving this with one set of rules. The only possible answer in the end imo is therefor a myriad of competitions imo so you can choose in a better way what to enter. I like the open system of judging but I also think it would be boring if every major compo was judged that way. For a competitive mind a top 3 award placement can be a strong motivator.
When it comes to the pro\'s \"issue\" it often boils down to this: The history of our hobby and those competitions. People painting minis in basements for their D&D games or warhammer in their spare time vs. people making a living from it painting day and night . Is it the same thing? People might have the same feeling that some have for soccer (or proper football
) \"They aren\'t in the spirit of the hobby/sport etc.\". \"back in the days... people entered their lord from their army into the GD\'s and won nowadays it\'s all professionals and it\'s about NMM and freehands and esp. large bases\". Not a true statement but you get the drift.