Golgotha by Victor Hardy
- Thread starter Dragon Forge Design
- Start date
Yeah, sorry Spacemunkie..I agree. I think that was meant to be severe sarcasm.
I think this is an interesting topic, but I agree also with the sentiments that were stated earlier....For all the hype that surrounded this piece, I don\'t think it lives up to it.
I stated earlier that it is offensive, and that is most likely the point of it. I take nothing away from the technical skill of Mr. Hardy, but I also find it akin to what a Shock Jock or Marilyn Manson does. Being shocking just to illicit a response. Not that there is anything wrong with it, it is still a valid form of expression.
I think this is an interesting topic, but I agree also with the sentiments that were stated earlier....For all the hype that surrounded this piece, I don\'t think it lives up to it.
I stated earlier that it is offensive, and that is most likely the point of it. I take nothing away from the technical skill of Mr. Hardy, but I also find it akin to what a Shock Jock or Marilyn Manson does. Being shocking just to illicit a response. Not that there is anything wrong with it, it is still a valid form of expression.
VictorHardy
New member
[No message]
I think cosidering the ripping apart this mini has had & the upset generated from its appearance it might be nice if the subject was closed after Victor was given the final word to end it all . Lets not forget this artist poured 600 hrs ? off his life into a mini and its been publically pulled to pieces, lets just STOP for a second & ask ourselves how we would feel if we were in his shoes.I am in awe of his patience & his perserverance lets now give the man a break !Well done Victor on your award . GOD bless ..........VINCENTI 
Infidel Castro
New member
Spit it out Victor lol
It\'s a damned good piece, plain and simple. That\'s enough for me.
It\'s a damned good piece, plain and simple. That\'s enough for me.
Originally posted by vincenti
I think cosidering the ripping apart this mini has had & the upset generated from its appearance it might be nice if the subject was closed after Victor was given the final word to end it all . Lets not forget this artist poured 600 hrs ? off his life into a mini and its been publically pulled to pieces, lets just STOP for a second & ask ourselves how we would feel if we were in his shoes.I am in awe of his patience & his perserverance lets now give the man a break !Well done Victor on your award . GOD bless ..........VINCENTI
Not sure he should feel too bad, or we can feel all that bad for him honestly, it\'s sitting at 9.7 on the site. In addition the piece was obviously made to spur conversation and would seem almost a shame if everyone just ignored it.
What I am seeing that I think is funny, is that people seem keep assuming that if someone doesn\'t like the imagery they are offended on the bases of their religious values. Reading through the thread I don\'t see anyone really saying the piece offends them in that way or that the subject matter of the piece stirs religious controversy (in fact post like Tagrons say exactly the opposite). I definately think it is not exactly the DaVinci code of minis despite some trying to elevate it to that level. It doesn\'t particularly get people to reexamine their faith, or question the foundation on which that faith rests.
What I do see is rather that people think it is simply in bad taste to combine the imagery in this way. And it\'s in bad taste precisely because it does it in a way, that does not stir any actual religious controversy, or cause people to question their religious values. Religious imagery is a powerful tool for inspiring human emotions, but I think the reason that this piece is getting so much talk is not because of the emotions it has stirred up, but rather that for all the imagery packed into it, it manages to stir up almost none.
Infidel Castro
New member
I think I follow you Eric lol
About that pint...
About that pint...
vincegamer
Active member
Actually, it\'s not piesces, it\'s ICHTHES (greek for fish).
The fish is a Christian symbol because the first two letters of the greek word are the initials of \"Jesus Christ.\"
M
Malfoy
Guest
I think you\'re 100% wrong there and I\'ll tell you why in anecdotal form.
At Adepticon a couple years ago, Victor had brought the model to help teach one of his classes. We were headed out to dinner before his class and my girlfriend met us at the hotel. I told her that before we left, she needed to see the figure. Later, after Victor gave a \"tour\" of the model I asked her what she thought and she described it as \"dark\" and the imagery as \"disturbing.\" This from a non-hobbyist. I\'m sure we\'d all like to be able to illicit a response like that with our painting. So when you claim that the model fails to stir any emotions, I feel I have to correct you. That is not at all the case.
Dave
Dammekkos2
New member
Heh, tbh I thought you we\'re being serious too
I feel foolish now, but it\'s not all my fault (I have been on mini sites for a while, you can never tell what moronic opinions are actually real) Legacy Account
Active member
My apologies
I hadn\'t wiped the snot out of me eyes this morning!!!
The most offensive thing about the mini:
\"My favorite part is the back of the banner, which I think captures the look,
lighting and feel of an ancient oil painting done in the tradition of the
old “Realism” masters of the 15-18th century.\"
Knackers does it!
M
Malfoy
Guest
Eric,
I think being disturbed is a very important reaction when your goal is to disturb people! In fact, you might even say that if you\'re trying to disturb people and then those people are disturbed, you\'ve been successful. Pretty simple, right?
And if you\'re saying Victor\'s piece fails because it hasn\'t made people re-evaluate their faith, then I\'m at a real loss to understand your expectations.
I don\'t really want to argue and we all agree it\'s completely subjective and we are certainly entitled to our opinions (I, personally, thought you\'re work at the L.A. Games Day was far and away the most inspired). But I have to disagree with your premise that this piece fails to illicit any valuable response.
Dave
Well, in another example, there was once this website cumonbabyjesus.com, which someone set up, and made quite disturbing, basically the goal (which was stated) was to be so disturbing that some christian group would purchase the domain from them to take it down. I don\'t see a real point or value to just being able to disturb someone without a real message behind it. In other words, how I see it, is that being disturbing is what catches someones attention, but what\'s important is the message you deliever once you have their attention.
Now if you read back a ways, I already have mentioned there is brilliance shown in this piece, and it does catch the attention obviously. I am just yet to see anyone then figure out what the message actually is once he has our attention.
Some people have called this a true work of art and that is what I am debating, not the fact that it is a brilliantly painted miniature (which is obviously is). To me (since I agree it\'s completely subjective), I do not elevate this to the level of an important/thought provoking piece of art. To me, it is another mini in which the imagery chosen actually detracts from my enjoyment of it.
And my expectation is not to have people reevaluate their faith, but rather that something, anything interesting is said on the subject of faith, since their is so much religious imagery used.
PS: Thanks for the comment about my LA entry
EArkham
Necromancer
My only question on this whole thing is the above. Why does not putting photos online make a difference in being able to enter again in a later Gamesday? I\'ve seen plenty of folks who post before entering and still place... Tagron, for example, posted his dwarf from GDLA a month or so in advance. Happens all the time.
For the piece itself, I think it\'s highly appropos for a Word Bearers daemon. I\'m probably going to try to copy some of the knotwork on a figure of my own this afternoon. I had no emotions generated by the piece beyond the usual \"that\'s a nicely done figure\" sort of awe and respect, however.
Kep
M
Malfoy
Guest
First, Matt, you\'re right. Bears are this nation\'s number one problem and they\'re on notice!
Second, Eric, I think that when Victor gets a chance to explain what he was doing with the piece (drawing parallels between Christianity and 40K\'s Imperial Cult) you\'ll find that not only was he successful, but that it was well-executed and appropriate. It tells a story and certainly isn\'t just controversial for the sake of controversy. But I\'m sure VH is preparing a \"tour\" of the model. Until that happens it\'s really out of context for people.
And things should be in context otherwise they just look like Mohammed with a turban-bomb, right?
dave
Second, Eric, I think that when Victor gets a chance to explain what he was doing with the piece (drawing parallels between Christianity and 40K\'s Imperial Cult) you\'ll find that not only was he successful, but that it was well-executed and appropriate. It tells a story and certainly isn\'t just controversial for the sake of controversy. But I\'m sure VH is preparing a \"tour\" of the model. Until that happens it\'s really out of context for people.
And things should be in context otherwise they just look like Mohammed with a turban-bomb, right?
dave
