Good going anti smokers

Shawn R. L.

New member
Here in California ( where else?), pot is legal for medical use under STATE laws BUT under FEDERAL laws it\'s still illegal. So, if I understand it right, you can have it legally and still get popped for it. Good ol government clarity for ya.???
 

airhead

Coffin Dodger / Keymaster
Originally posted by funnymouth@ airhead one the government can do many things much better than the private sector - and all of them are things that the private sector is unwilling to do, because there is no money to be made (eg environmental protection).
Bad example, try again. The government does nothing in environmental protection. The Government can only ban things. But scrubbers are a business. Filters are a business. We have people making a living designing and building wetlands. I still stand by my asertation.

And if the government really wanted to get rid of smoking, maybe they wouldn\'t subsidise the tobacco farmers? Ahh, but there are billions to be made on cigarette tax stamps. Hard to kill the golden goose.
 

Avelorn

Sven Jonsson
oh lord. I feel like I have to write like a 300 page essay to sort all this out. Allways like that when I\'m discussing politics..

\"And you got to let me knoooow!
Shoud I stay or should I go??\"
 

funnymouth

Active member
Originally posted by airhead
The government does nothing in environmental protection. The Government can only ban things. But scrubbers are a business. Filters are a business. We have people making a living designing and building wetlands. I still stand by my asertation.
lol, they do, almost nothing....but they still do something. those filters you speak of exist because of governmental legislation requireing them - then the private sector fills the demand for the product - and where do you thing the money that the wetlands developers use comes from? rich entrepreneurs? nope, government contracts. as far as i remember there arent any equivelents to the department of fish and game in the private sector.

@ EvilD wow, that is messed up man - i seriously hope that such a law doesnt pass. scary stuff.
 

Ebonbuddha

Active member
No. I have heard that. But I also heard it about Saccharin too. I am talking about the one going around years ago that it caused Parkinson’s

Originally posted by vincegamer
Originally posted by EbonbuddhaNow watch someone buy into the urban myth about aspartame and then I am screwed. I wonder what Foamy would have to say about this.
If you are thinking about what I\'m thinking about, it\'s not a myth.
It was big news when a study concluded Aspertame caused cancer in rats. It was big news because the sugar farmers\' lobby published the info all over the place. They only stopped when it was demonstrated that sugar was a more potent carcinogen.
(in both cases though, you had to eat human equivalent around 5 pounds of sweetener per day for a year to have a measurable effect).

N.B. There are 17 separate carcinogens in an orange. (not counting any pesticide residue on the surface)
 
M

Marmoset

Guest
Smoking in Public Places (errr... similar to banning/taxation?)

Originally posted by Avelorn
oh lord. I feel like I have to write like a 300 page essay to sort all this out.
here is a shorter one I did, about smoking in public :innocent:


I think that smoking in public places, especially around more vulnerable people, should be banned. On the bus that I often travel by, people smoke heavily, paying no regard to the penalties displayed in the windows, or the fact that there are children on the bus. Passive smoking is just as damaging to your health as smoking: prolonged smoking puts you at a high risk of no less than fourteen potentially fatal cancers, clogs up your arteries with fat, and your lungs with sticky black tar. This damages the airways in your lungs, making it difficult to breathe. A Europe-wide study has revealed that children who live with parents who smoke are three times more likely to get lung cancer when they\'re older. A smoker is three times more likely to have a heart attack than a non – smoker. Cigarettes contain arsenic, formaldehyde, benzene, ammonia, nicotine, and thousands of other chemicals. 40,000 people die a year of smoking related illnesses.
And if the fact that people smoke at all isn’t bad enough, people who smoke around you are forcing you to suffer all the above effects, not to mention making it difficult to see and causing you to choke. If someone is sensible enough not to smoke in the first place, they have no choice in the matter if someone smokes around them. So is it not incredibly selfish to smoke in public places? Is it not unfair on children, who are even more vulnerable to the health damage? Is it fair on people with asthma? What about pregnant women? You are much more likely to experience the nightmare of having a stillborn baby, to suffer a miscarriage, or to deliver a low birth-weight baby if you smoke, passively or not. Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (or SIDS, for short), a condition in which an apparently healthy baby dies unexpectedly during sleep, occurs twice as often in children born to mothers who smoke, or are exposed to smoke during pregnancy. All these vulnerable people have the right to travel on buses and dine in cafés and restaurants without fear of damaging their health, or losing their baby.
I think that if you are foolish enough to smoke, you should at least let others around you have a choice in it, and not force them to smoke too. Apart from all the aforementioned health risks, if you smoke around someone it makes their clothes smell too. I once met my friend coming off his bus, and he smelled terrible, just as if he was a heavy smoker himself!
On the other hand, it may seem to smokers that if they have the right to buy cigarettes, they should also have the right to smoke them wherever they want, especially as smoking is often a social activity: it’s a free country. However, here it is the rights of the individual versus the rights of the people in general. Smokers have the right to smoke, and they do so, nearly always despite full knowledge of the health risks: non – smokers have the right not to smoke, and do so, because of their knowledge of the health risks, which they don’t wish to inflict upon themselves. It isn’t that easy though, because smoking does not only damage the person who chooses to do it, like, say, drinking. It damages everyone around you, regardless of his or her own choice.
It is the non – smokers’ right to have a choice in the matter: it is not the smokers’ right to take away this right and damage vulnerable peoples’ health. It should have been made illegal a long, long time ago.

Persuasive? :D

Happy painting

~Bill
 

GreenOne

I paint my thumb.
@Marmoset
Silly enough to smoke ?
Ain\'t you being judgemental here kid ?

The thing with all this story about public ban, is that the government does not care for the non-smoker any more than the smoker.
You take public opinion, mix it up a little than take \'actions\' about it.
Now, ranting against smoker is a trend, and the governments are taking advantage of this by trying to make good figure and make people forget thet THEY are poisoning us, conscously, in a zillion others ways.

Now, as a smoker, I always tried to respect the non smokers, breathe away from they\'re faces, give them a few foots buffer of fresh air, keeping my smoke discreet when there are kids around.
Now I think the whole society is lacking respect towards the smokers. This is our decision and we\'re the only ones concerned.

Stress, genetically modified food and social paranoia cause way more cancers than smoke if you ask me.
Give us a break.
 
M

Marmoset

Guest
No offence intended

Apologies if I caused any offence, GreenOne. I was not implying that all smokers are idiotic dickheads who smoke in people\'s faces - obviously there are nice, considerate people who smoke, including you - the people who do smoke in people\'s faces are dickheads though, I don\'t think you can deny that putting other folks\' health at risk is unfair. As for people who smoke being \"silly\" I meant that in the terms of starting smoking - everybody knows that is a bad decision. Addicts, it\'s another story of course; but they should not smoke in public places. Someone who enjoys smoking despite knowing how it is damaging them; ditto. I accept that several of the terms used there were too strong and indiscriminate, and I apologise for that. :) This essay is in fact a persuasive speech as part of my English studies, so I may have gone a bit overboard, but all my facts are correct to the best of my knowledge. It is my own opinion, and as a non-smoker who is 13, I probably don\'t understand as much as you - but I hope people discuss their own views in comparison to mine, it\'s always nice to have a good debate. :)

happy painting

~Bill
 
M

Marmoset

Guest
Oh, and I wasn\'t including the government in my essay, I have absolutely no idea what that sort of politics is about! :)

happy painting

~Bill
 

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
Originally posted by Marmoset
Oh, and I wasn\'t including the government in my essay, I have absolutely no idea what that sort of politics is about! :)
And apparently neither to our respective governments.

happy painting

~Bill
 

GreenOne

I paint my thumb.
Now you\'re talking, kid.

Now if you want to keep writing like that, weight your words and don\'t generalize, that will help readers keep with you till the end of those long texts :p

I, for myself, did pick-up smoking at 18, cause I already liked the smoking action ( Started weed at 15..), I then discovered I liked it. Then I discovered it was good with a coffee, then after lunches, on breaks, after sex...
That\'s when the addiction came.
But I still smoke cause I like it, and I think not hating yourself for doing it helps staying healthy despite it.

Now, as for HOW BAD smoke and second-hand smoke really are, these is room for arguments, I think, and the authorities on the matter seem quite quite to dramatize on it, while ignoring other threatening issues. Aren\'t those officials saying what they\'re told to say ?

Here in québec, smoking has been banned from most public places, restaurants are allowed to have a smoker section and bars are about to fall under the ban.
Smoker section in a restaurant is good, cause if I\'m to stay there a few hours, I won\'t enjoy myself if I have cravings and need to leave the table for them. In result, I\'ll stay only the time needed to eat then get out, thus spending less money. Many others are like that.
As for bars, that is plain ridiculous, Alcool and cigarette are binded together, you cannot take your drink outside... And you go to a bar to conscously mess yourself up, with alcool and noise polution amongst others, but not the deadly cigarette of course !
Many commerces will go out of business, as, for many, smoking is associated with staying longer, spending more, enjoying yourself more.

Now, I\'m talking too much...
 

vincegamer

Active member
Persuasive Speech

Just as actions speek louder than words, details speak louder than generalizations.
Back up some of those assertions (e.g. SIDS) with some statistical data. Not too much though, as you don\'t want to bore the audience.
Are you actually delivering the speech? If so, don\'t underestimate props.
I once gave a speech against abortion (not my view, but that of the assignment) in which I had a jar with a foetus sitting on the table behind me the whole time I talked. I never alluded to the jar in any way during the speech, but you can believe I was persuasive.

Now as to actual health risks, the studies are numerous. You increase your chance to get anything from emphasima to cancer of the lips. I have yet to hear of any credible, peer-reviewed study that shows an increased health risk due to eating \"genetically modified\" foods.

Oh, and this term \"government\" gets tossed around a lot. The people who passed the local smoking bans were elected officials. They were enacting the will of the majority of the people because if they weren\'t they\'d be voted out. Are there bigger issues? probably. But in a democracy/republic, politicians are whores doing what most voters want them to do while keeping as many perks as they can. So to say the \"government\" does what it wants is really saying it does what the majority wants (or thinks it wants).

Also, as a related aside, Congress does stupid things, but those who enforce them are usually smarter. In the 1950s Congress passed a bill prohibiting sale of foods containing any detectable amount of cancer-causing pesticides. A few years later the FDA dubbed it the \"mass murder bill\" because if literally enforced it would have led to the deaths of thousands. Science developed better testing techniques and basically harmless amounts are now detectible. Literal enforcement would mean banning all pesticide use in agriculture, which would quadruple the price of vegetables, which would mean the poor would not eat vegetables and would die of various malnutrition related causes - far more than would ever die of cancer.
The FDA decided to interpret the bill to mean any levels detectable \"by 1950s technology\" which means the FDA still uses 1950s technology to test food.
And you thought the bottom had dropped out of the vacuum tube market :rolleyes:
 

GreenOne

I paint my thumb.
This makes sence, Vince.

I did not argument on IF the smoke was bad for your health just on HOW MUCH. In all those studies, there are other vectors than the use of tobacco in that equation, since those people did not only smoke in their lives, they just never mention anything else, which makes the study biased in the whole.

The results of genetically modified food use will surely hit us right in the face soon, imho. And like non-smoker in smoky area, we are not really given a choice.
And I forgot to mention the aspartame, MSG, and other potentially dangerous product we\'re intaking in every prepared dinner around the world, both have been proven to cause cancer and chemical imbalances. Has your chinese buffet been over-taxed recently ?
Are the SUV and minivan drivers overtaxed for poluting 4 times what a normal car driver would, just to look trendy ?
Why should smokers, which already have to carry their own burden be overtaxed then ?
 

Modderrhu

New member
Originally posted by Marmoset
Persuasive? :D
Honestly? No. Why? Because we\'ve heard it all before. Because considerate smokers get all the flak that the inconsiderate ones do. You\'d just be someone else standing on a soap box, telling me what a piece of trash I am. *yawn*

(But seriously, no offence taken, and none intended)
 

funnymouth

Active member
Originally posted by vincegamer
. Science developed better testing techniques and basically harmless amounts are now detectible. :

no such thing.
two reasons:
1) Biomagnification. toxins with slow deterioration half-lives accumulate in ecosystems. levels of ddt, and pcbs are still very high in arctic marine animals, including humans (fyi, they dont spray crops in the arctic...). these result in widespread problems including birth defects, decreased spearm count, cancers, and other immunologiacl problems. modern pesticides have shot half lives, but they still cause many problems in humans (and lab animals)

and more importantly:

2) low dose exposure: recent research suggests that low levels of pesticides may be just as dangerous as high levels, and in some cases more dangerous. the idea that \"more is worse\" does not hold in biological systems. many of these drugs minic, hormones and other cell regulation and communication factors - systems where varying signal intensities result in different responses (changes in gene expression etc).
egs:
2003-0111effectofhcb.jpg

DESnonmonotonic.jpg


strong evidence (fact) that combinations of carcinogens/toxic chemicals results in highly elevated rates of cancers and birth deformities, despite low dosage.

the FDA is a crap organization, and is essentially the puppet of big buisness. dispite KNOWING that toxins function differently than they did fifty years ago, they have not yet chanced their testing standards.

i recommend a book called : \"our stolen future\" by colborn et all.

by the way - throw away your nalgene bottles, and stop drinking soda (not because of the sugar). they are made from plastic number 7 - a polymer made from bisphenol A, an estogonic chemical (acts like estrogen). the subunit will leach from plastics (ever taste that plasticy taste before?) and can do all of the things estrogen can -> weight gain, decreased sperm count and boobies + other health problems. for an adult it doent mean much, but if you are a woman and you are pregnant with a boy baby it can result in deformations of the prostate which will have life long consiquences for your child (deformations, problems with the ureter and badder drainage, etc). both low (lower than average consumption)and high dosages have these effects.
pesticides = bad.

edit: fyi, epoxy resin is made out of bisphenol A
 

dauber22

New member
Originally posted by vincegamer

Oh, and this term \"government\" gets tossed around a lot. The people who passed the local smoking bans were elected officials. They were enacting the will of the majority of the people because if they weren\'t they\'d be voted out. Are there bigger issues? probably. But in a democracy/republic, politicians are whores doing what most voters want them to do while keeping as many perks as they can. So to say the \"government\" does what it wants is really saying it does what the majority wants (or thinks it wants).

lollollollollollollollollollollollollol

Oh! Sorry. I know that\'s the way it\'s supposed to work, but... Well, I suppose my views are tainted because I live in a state that is no longer a democracy. New York, for the last many years, has been a three-headed oligarchy. The governor and the majority leaders of the two legislative houses have all the power and nobody ever gets voted out of office. I forget the exact numbers, but over the last ten years there has been something like 7 incumbents voted out out of all the State legislative elections!!!!!:mad:

Sorry. [/rant:curtailed]
 
M

Marmoset

Guest
:eek: That\'s me debated out of this conversation then :eek: Seems my message is a worn-out one, but it was effective when spoken to the rest of my class (you guys of course have much better cognitive abilities, brain power and attention span of more than 3 minutes :innocent: ) I got a good mark for it, but in the real world it is completely insignificant.

Happy painting

~Bill
 

GreenOne

I paint my thumb.
@Marmoset
Of course it is!
This being said, I was pretty damn proud of my speech and writing skills at your age, though it was insignificant to grown ups and today I still am proud, and I get my point across now. Eloquence is a skill that one develops and uses all is life.
Keep praticing, stay sharp...

I think that the only fact that you can write properly, and seem to like it, already makes you better than most kids I know.

@Dauber: I totally sympatise with you, politic in Quebec ( And Canada as well) is pretty darn rotten too, though nobody notice on the outside. Unrestricted Lobbyism on a powertrip, that\'s ugly.
 
S

sebrushworth

Guest
I smoke, and really wish I didn\'t. I\'ve tried quitting several times and it\'s a bitch. The drug addict inside you will do anything he/she can to keep you smoking.

I love the fact the smoking in bars and restaurants is banned here in Sweden now. It\'s great to be able to go home after visiting the pub without stinking like an ash tray. I don\'t think people have a problem stepping outside to smoke - most younger smokers don\'t smoke indoors when they\'re at home anyway.

90% of lung cancer deaths are related to smoking. Almost 10% of smokers develop lung cancer (which has over a 90% mortality rate), while less than 1% of non-smokers develop the disease. Smoking also increases the risk of cardiac arrest, cancers to all parts of the body, and causes emphysema, a degenerative lung condition which is eventually fatal. Smoking is the number one leading cause of preventable death in the western world. So why the hell do I smoke? Because I\'m an addict!
 

vincegamer

Active member
Originally posted by Marmoset
Seems my message is a worn-out one, but it was effective when spoken to the rest of my class (you guys of course have much better cognitive abilities, brain power and attention span of more than 3 minutes :innocent: )
I think it\'s more age. Obviously the younger you are, the less often you\'ve heard the message. Us old farts have been hearing this for 30 years or in some cases more.
Our brains and attention spans are no better than the average, um, what was I talking about?
 
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