Good going anti smokers

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by EbonbuddhaNow watch someone buy into the urban myth about aspartame and then I am screwed. I wonder what Foamy would have to say about this.

If you are thinking about what I\'m thinking about, it\'s not a myth.
It was big news when a study concluded Aspertame caused cancer in rats. It was big news because the sugar farmers\' lobby published the info all over the place. They only stopped when it was demonstrated that sugar was a more potent carcinogen.
(in both cases though, you had to eat human equivalent around 5 pounds of sweetener per day for a year to have a measurable effect).

N.B. There are 17 separate carcinogens in an orange. (not counting any pesticide residue on the surface)

 

[Evil Dave]

Well, here\'s an idea, if you want people to eat healthier foods, how about lowering the prices on those foods.
Have you noticed the prices on fresh vegetables.
I can usually get 2 cheeseburgers from McDonalds cheaper than a salad.
What about bottled Water? Ounce for Ounce more expensive than gas.

What happens when we get rid of everything unhealty and everyone in the world is living into their late 90\'s?
Overpopulation?
Retirement age rising?(again)

@funnymouth: While you may feel that you shouldn\'t pay for others choices, the fact of the matter is that they are also putting into the system and may not want to pay for yours.


I would much rather see our legislators try and give those people who live long enough a social security system that works, rather than not truly worrying about it since they are on their own retirement system.
I mean really, what\'s the point of being healthy and living a really long time if you have to work until you die?

 

[funnymouth]

very good points evilD, and i wholeheartedly agree with you. healthy cheep food is very tough to accomplish though, as crap is cheeper to make (and lots of money is spent on lobbying to keep it that way).
as for overpopulation, the generational time (time of first reproduction) and number of offspring is typically far more important than lifespan. we\'re overpopulated as it is, and its getting worse - but all it takes is one bug or big rock to fix that.

 

[ZaPhOd]

Good going anti-child pron folks... Now the Department of Justice wants to know what YOU are surfing for...

As for privacy.... yeah. I have nothing to hide, but it is all bad news as far as I\'m concerned. Other presidents may have spied on their own people, but IIRC they had permits...

I am a stoic anti-smoker now after smoking for 20 years. I say tax the hell out of smokes. As far as the soft drinks and junk food goes? Parents get a grip on what your kids eat... I see it all the time around here. I blame the parents for 95% of it.

 

[vincegamer]

I think the best thing the government can do is mandatory labeling on fast food.

Then you have real choices. You can\'t blame McDonalds because you thought chicken was healthy so you ate nothing but chicken nuggets when a sign on the wall clearly shows that the nuggets have twice as much fat as a big mac with cheese. (don\'t recall the exact numbers, but chicken nuggets IS the highest fat item on the menu).

 

[tzor]

Originally posted by funnymouth
that doesnt change the fact that type 2 diabetes is dramatically on the rise and that 1 out of every 10 dollars spent on health care in the US is spent on diabetes (in 2002 it was $92 billion, plus another $40 billion in indirect costs).

Yes, but is it really on the rise or are we detecting it when we never used to even look for it before. Both my mother and my aunt have type 2 diabeties in a mild case that only requires pills. (Although they put my mom on a special needle with a combination that help the sugar control and causes weight loss through reduced appetite.) I\'ll bet my bottom dollor that 50 years ago they would have never even bothered to test these two eldery ladies of this condition in the first place, and would have assigned any diabetic symtoms as due to \"old age.\"

But frankly, obesity also has a number of other diseases including high blood pressure. (My doctor has just changed my high blood pressure pill because my pressure went down as a result of recently loosing weight on my own accord.) Sugar/Carbs is probably one of the leading causes of obesity ... and I\'ve already pointed out how liquid foods do not make us as \"full\" as slid foods, so we tend to intake more in the form of a liquid than in the form of a solid.

 

[dauber22]

\"That government that governs least, governs best\" Thomas Jefferson

As a libertarian (non-closet variety) I sincerely believe it doesn\'t matter whether you\'re talking Republicans or Democrats. Neither one has our best interest in mind. The first goal, if not the ONLY goal, of all politicians is to get re-elected. The second one is to gain more power. Neither of these goals is in the interest of thier consituents. \"A plague on both thier houses\"
Therefore, airhead, I take issue with your \"wasted vote\" theory. I don\'t vote for who I think will win. I vote for who I\'d most like to run the country. In most cases, I can not vote in good conscience for either a republican or a democrat.

I\'d also like to point out that a good part of teh \"explosion\" of obese people comes from the government radically changing the standards for what\'s considered overweight. Remember taht according to the new standards, Arnold the Governator and Emmett Smith (a very fit looking American footballer, for you non-americans) are both considered obese. Much the same way that the number of people with serious high blood pressure \"skyrocketted\" when they lowered the trigger rate by some 40 points or so.

 

[darthfoley]

Originally posted by Ebonbuddha
I didn\'t know that about you Darth. how long hae you been diabetic? I hear you about the childhood sweets. I was around Krispy Kremems before they became popular.
You guys want to hear something ironic? I was making a salad today and I was using and read the ingredients on the box. Sugar is in my salad dressing. I read my wife\'s Johnny\'s Season Salt.It contained sugar...I don\'t think we can blame just sodas. There are alot of foods that have sugar in them. We can blame only sodas like we can only blame McDonalds for woes.

Was diagnosed on my 26th birthday, so a little over 5 years for me now. Four shots a day, yay. lol

As for sugar, yeah it hides out all over the place. It\'s amazing how it can sneak up on you.

 

[vincegamer]

Having just read a bit, I see that obesity is determined by body mass index. BMI is merely a relation of height to weight. There\'s an obvious problem on the individual level when it doesn\'t differentiate between muscle and fat.
A small-group problem is that African and Polynesian populations have in general a higher muscle/fat ratio than others, and Asians have more obesity related illnesses at lower levels than others.

Basically any time you try to fit a system to the entire human population, you will have big holes.

Nonetheless, Americans are much fatter than they were 40 years ago. A good source of info is the Army studies of body size. They had to increase the width of the standard chair to accommodate larger butts recently.

 

[ipaintminis]

obesity

for those that saw me at the GD, you know I\'m not exactly a skinny girl. far from it, matter of fact. and I am technically \"overweight\"

you know what drives me crazy...restricting things because of a few people, ie sodas, sugar stuff like that

i bring up the point about my overweight-ness, because it was not caused by food. Like Ebon, I have a medical thing-a-ma-bopper that causes \'chunkiness\' i went for 3 or 4 years with all kinds of doctors telling me it was my fault i was fat. so I\'d run, I\'d walk everything. I lost 5 pound in a month. it was then i was finally diagnosed with Poly-Cystic Disease. So what really bothers me is when an entire nation blames you for something thats not your fault.

as a majority sure the American populous is fat, whatever. sure those \'in charge\' are going to try to fix it. but why blame others for something thats not their fault, myself included? so if i want to get a soda I\'m going to get taxed. so that i think twice about buying that soda? sure. I\'ll think twice because where is my extra change going? the 08 elections committees??? (kidding)

OK, an abnormally long post for me but this whole obesity thing is close to my heart, it effects me every day. so, pardon the rant

 

[Shawn R. L.]

Originally posted by ipaintminis
for those that saw me at the GD, you know I\'m not exactly a skinny girl. far from it, matter of fact. and I am technically \"overweight\"

you know what drives me crazy...restricting things because of a few people, ie sodas, sugar stuff like that

i bring up the point about my overweight-ness, because it was not caused by food. Like Ebon, I have a medical thing-a-ma-bopper that causes \'chunkiness\' i went for 3 or 4 years with all kinds of doctors telling me it was my fault i was fat. so I\'d run, I\'d walk everything. I lost 5 pound in a month. it was then i was finally diagnosed with Poly-Cystic Disease. So what really bothers me is when an entire nation blames you for something thats not your fault.

as a majority sure the American populous is fat, whatever. sure those \'in charge\' are going to try to fix it. but why blame others for something thats not their fault, myself included? so if i want to get a soda I\'m going to get taxed. so that i think twice about buying that soda? sure. I\'ll think twice because where is my extra change going? the 08 elections committees??? (kidding)

OK, an abnormally long post for me but this whole obesity thing is close to my heart, it effects me every day. so, pardon the rant

Here here!! As one who is also \'gravitationally challenged\' I am, after much observation, sold on the idea that some of us are made to be chunkier. Two examples, no three - My friend Jim, almost 7 feet tall, skinny as a rail. I go to Jim\'s house and he has 12 taco\'s to my 2 or so. 12 and you could about wrap your fingers around his waist.
Next - Andy. Medium height and thin. His doctor tells him that he has GOT to put on some weight. So, luckey dog, he starts going for it. I mean that boy was packin away the groceries......... no weight gain.
Next - Jason - Average height, average build, not atheletic. We go to lunch and he has TWICE what I have (I have just a normal lunch) and he is way thinner than I am.

Bottom line on all this stuff is, it\'s another way of \'the Man\' to get into our pockets and grab more money. It dont matter what it is, they will find some way to tax us....period.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by ipaintminis
for those that saw me at the GD, you know I\'m not exactly a skinny girl. far from it, matter of fact. and I am technically \"overweight\"

Yeah, maybe, but you\'re still cute as a button.

 

[johnboyjjb]

Originally posted by vincegamer
Having just read a bit, I see that obesity is determined by body mass index. BMI is merely a relation of height to weight. There\'s an obvious problem on the individual level when it doesn\'t differentiate between muscle and fat.
A small-group problem is that African and Polynesian populations have in general a higher muscle/fat ratio than others, and Asians have more obesity related illnesses at lower levels than others.

Basically any time you try to fit a system to the entire human population, you will have big holes.

Nonetheless, Americans are much fatter than they were 40 years ago. A good source of info is the Army studies of body size. They had to increase the width of the standard chair to accommodate larger butts recently.

The most frequently referred to BMI is height to weight. The most effective way I know of is to measure body fat as a percentage of body weight using calipers. I beleive under 7% is lean, 7-15% is normal, 16-22% is chunky, and over 22% is obese. This method rules out genetics and the I\'m just big boned routine as body fat and bone mass are expected to increase proportionally.
The other advantage to body fat indexing is that if you have a trouble spot they can index without that measurement and bam, you\'re thinner.

I\'m wasting away! Oh.. I\'m down to a \"B-Cup\".
-Homer S

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by johnboyjjb

Originally posted by vincegamer
Having just read a bit, I see that obesity is determined by body mass index. BMI is merely a relation of height to weight. There\'s an obvious problem on the individual level when it doesn\'t differentiate between muscle and fat.
A small-group problem is that African and Polynesian populations have in general a higher muscle/fat ratio than others, and Asians have more obesity related illnesses at lower levels than others.

Basically any time you try to fit a system to the entire human population, you will have big holes.

Nonetheless, Americans are much fatter than they were 40 years ago. A good source of info is the Army studies of body size. They had to increase the width of the standard chair to accommodate larger butts recently.

The most frequently referred to BMI is height to weight. The most effective way I know of is to measure body fat as a percentage of body weight using calipers. I beleive under 7% is lean, 7-15% is normal, 16-22% is chunky, and over 22% is obese. This method rules out genetics and the I\'m just big boned routine as body fat and bone mass are expected to increase proportionally.
The other advantage to body fat indexing is that if you have a trouble spot they can index without that measurement and bam, you\'re thinner.

I\'m wasting away! Oh.. I\'m down to a \"B-Cup\".
-Homer S

It\'s still just a load of trouble.
You will die regardless of how skinny you are.
Just a couple weeks ago I had a friend I work with just keel over and die.
Mid 50\'s, worked out all the time, ate super healthy, just died of a heart attack, and no family history of it.
When it\'s your time, it\'s your time and no amout of legislation will stop it.

On a side note, look at Teddy Kennedy, I think the only time he\'s ever had Coke was if it was over his liquor.

 

[airhead]

@Dauber, keep voting - a non-vote is the only truely wasted vote. My big gripe with them is that they want to start from the top down. That will never get them elected. I voted for a Libertarian that was running for a county school board. There was only one school in the district left and his platform was to turn it over to the city and disband the school board. He didn\'t get elected.

 

[funnymouth]

i did a quick google search and i came up with a few decent resources. i thought this article was interesting, and some of the statistics about consumption are staggering ( though i am skeptical):
\"kids, soda, and obesity\"
i did a primary literature search as well, and found many articles with research data (both for and against-ish), unfortunately i can not link those documents.

in any case - i do not endorse any kind of restrictions on soda consumption (but we wouldnt dare sell cigaretts in school, would we?). there are worse things than a tax on something you dont need. i drink alcohol, and they tax the crap out of that, why should sodie pop be any different? taxes suck, but so does deficit spending.
thank goodness my other vices are, um, uh, um.......

to be blunt, in terms of legeslation all i really care about is the environment. i just want there to be an earth that my great, great, great, great, great, grandchildren can argue over. vote green!

 

[dauber22]

Originally posted by airhead
@Dauber, keep voting - a non-vote is the only truely wasted vote.

Exactly my belief!
And, yes, I agree, Libertarianism is actually more of a local/state kind of thing and would probably be better served building up a base there, but [shrug] at least it gives me somebody I can vote for comfortably (in general) for president.

 

[vincegamer]

I find it fascinating that voter turn-out is highest in elections in which their votes are the least significant.

Your vote for local sheriff or judge or school board is one of a rather small number of votes and therefore more significant, plus the local sheriff can have a far greater effect on you personally.
Your vote for president is one of millions, and relatively insignificant, and the result is going to be pretty darn similar whichever way it goes as far as your personal life is concerned. (for a topical example, the president had nothing to do with the local smoking bans)

Yet the percentage of eligible voters is always highest in the presidential elections.

 

[Herb the bitter]

The ironic thing is that they will probably tax diet soda just as much as regular soda.

 

[freakinacage]

Originally posted by Trevor
Interestingly what started me off on this train of thought is a new law they are trying to introduce here in NSW that would make it illegal to smoke in your car. Yes you read that right. And that is illegal even if you are the only one in the car

i say fair enough. it\'s illegal to drive while on a mobile phone. why not when you are smoking? i know 2 people who have had bad car crashes (that affected other people) because they dropped a ciggy in their lap