GW Rip Off!!!!!!!!!!

[atacam]

Here is a letter i wrote to head office. I Will post the reply if I get one.


Hello

On a recent trip to a games work shop store, i was dissmaed to find out that there is going to be another price increse on paint.
I was told that the price is going up by 25p!!!!!!!. Is this true? As after speaking to the staff member(who shall remain anonymous)
even he could not justify a hike of this much. The pots are an absoloute disaster as is without puting up the price for the paint.
When you look at other companies for instance Humbrol do an acrlic range, and i use the black and white as these are just as good, as i know someone that got a first in a golden demon catagory using some of these paints! These paint sell for £1.25 for 30ml.
Now i know you are changing the pots but it was your companies mistake in the first place so why should the hobbyst foot the bill. I can remeber when this used to ba a gamer/collector friendly company, Not anymore. But at least a good thing has come out of all this, it has made me start looking at other figure companies and realising there are so many other good/better minis out there. In turn i am showing these to friends and at my local games club and many other people are getting the other figures as well, as looking at the games systems that they are used with. So for that i can at least thank you.
I am a member of a few figuer forums on the net and other member are also looking forward as am I to the response to this letter.

Yours not so faithfully now.
Mr Wilson.

:flame:

 

[Maori]

Congratulations, atacam, you\'ve seen the light!!!:bouncy: Not only are there plenty of minis out there that are as good or better than theirs, the same can be said for paint. Stroll down to your local artist supply store, marvel at the employees\' purple hair, and pick up some REAL paints.
No, tey\'re not cheap, but they cost no more than Citadel\'s, especially when you consider that these will come in eyedropper- or squeezy bottles or tubes, so you are easily able to put only tiny amounts on your palette, put the cap back on - no drying out at all.
More importantly still, these paints will contain vastly greater amounts of pigment as opposed to the filler ridden junk you\'ve been buying.

 

[vincegamer]

Good for you

I\'m glad to see you were willing to voice your dissatisfaction with the company. If people keep quiet and GW keeps selling things (which they will no matter how many folks you introduce to other companies) they won\'t have any reason to make changes. Speaking with your wallet is good too, by giving other companies a chance.
One word though. If you are writing to a company, I suggest a spell checker.

 

[kannan_fodder]

Since someone already beat me to the suggestion of a good spell checker.... Sorry, but using \"proper\" grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc generally makes you look more professional. (And thus they take you more seriously.)

Anyway, I side with you on this matter. I first bought GW paints because I could find nothing else other than hobby paints for wood crafts and fabric painting. (Nice range of colors, but waaaaay too thick for minis!) I hate those stupid, industrial strength, self-sealing lids GW uses, as I need a pair of heavy duty pliers just to open the damn things.


On the plus side, it\'s very easy to re-hydrate the paint, providing it hasn\'t completely dried.

 

[kannan_fodder]

Since someone already beat me to the suggestion of a good spell checker.... Sorry, but using \"proper\" grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. generally makes you look more professional. (And thus they take you more seriously.)

Anyway, I side with you on this matter. I first bought GW paints because I could find nothing else other than hobby paints for wood crafts and fabric painting. (Nice range of colors, but waaaaay too thick for minis!) I hate those stupid, industrial strength, self-sealing lids GW uses, as I need a pair of heavy duty pliers just to open the damn things.


On the plus side, it\'s very easy to re-hydrate the paint, providing it hasn\'t completely dried.

 

[Badaab]

Well, GW doesn\'t cease to amaze me with price hikes. I was around for the paint price hike the first three times... like in 1996 when all the bottles had to have new labels for the US (because the original ones didn\'t mention they shouldn\'t be taken internally), and GW ups the price by 35 cents on regualr colors, and 55 cents on metallics... just for a friggin\' label.

The only reason, and I mean ONLY reason I continue to use GW\'s paints is because I have enough of them in the older bottles that stay good. If I need another color, I\'ve been buying into new lines recently, like Howard Hues and Reaper (more paint, less price, better bottles).

And, should GW decide to change the colors in the paint line and discontinue any I like (again), they won\'t be getting my business.
I haven\'t bought a GW prodcut in five months, and I don\'t plan on doing so in the near future, because the dropping in quality seems to be related proportionally to the rising in prices (10 friggin\' bucks for a Terminator? I remember when they were $5.50 each in 1997...)

Joe

 

[Pellimore]

I can feel the price changes

Just recently someone made the comment to me that only those who were playing/painting for a long time noticed the price chages, and that everyone else was use to them.

Personally, I\'ve been playing for about 2 years now and I have unopenned rhinos I bought for $12.50. When I looked on the shelves the other day I had to ask the sales manager if they had the right prices. And thats only 2 years of difference!

It\'s scary to think of what will happen in the next 2 years. Great letter to the company, very vocal and informative.

Have fun,
Pellimore

 

[sam40k]

This ones not about the price, its about the GW paint pots, Ever tried rollin the lid under your bare foot to get them open works for me .

 

[Sturmhalo]

I\'ve been meaning to write to GW head office for a while with similar arguments! The price increase on paint disgusts me frankly! I will have to buy some GW paint for certain jobs just to maintain the colour scheme within an army, but I am looking elsewhere for new paints. The costs of GW products in general are way over priced. I know other companies may charge a lot, but GW just seem to be ahead of them all, and far too eager to up the prices as they see fit! I know we have such a thing as inflation, but since 1988 the price of paint has gone up from £0.60 to what will be £1.75. Almost tripled! Your average R&F figure back in 1988 was probably costing £0.60 (£2.99 for a pack of 4 or 5!), now your looking at £2 - £3 per figure, and that\'s not including the over priced characters!

Amusingly I remembered the other day that GW did actually rip me off back in 1988! I was nothing more than a kid and I was just about to make my first ever purchase. I bought a pack of 3 Doctor Who Cybermen for £1.50 and an out of date copy of the Citadel Journal. I payed at the counter and the guy serving me convinced me that I didn\'t really want the 2 pence change and he kept it! I should have seen it as a forerunner of things to come!

 

[d_coombes]

In GW\'s defense, the tooling costs for all plastic miniatures they\'ve been releasing is really high... and they have released a LOT of stuff lately and its all gotta be paid for somehow.

I wouldn\'t be surprised if GW is hurting right now just because they have too wide a range of products... 2 completely different ranges of skeletons for instance.... Thats just stupid... I mean if you want 2 ranges of skeletons do a generic skeleton and then pack in some resin/metal detail parts for different races... or a shield and head sprue...

Personally I agree with most of whats been said here... but I do like having the option to buy and build plastic tanks and troops...
Dave

 

[finn17]

After reading these posts several points occur to me:

1) GW has certainly not expanded its range. Take a look at, say a 1999 catalogue. The damn thing is an inch thick and not only did it offer a wider range of models but you could order individual components as well which was great for customisers. In comparison the current range is just pathetic.

2) I really like the idea of rolling a paint pot under my naked foot to get the lid off, it would add a whole new dimension to my painting pleasure. I also look forward to trying to scrub Leprous Brown out of the Axminster. I am sure my wife would understand that it is accepted practice nowadays to paint barefooted whilst having pigment ooze between the toes. A proper lid would be a whole lot more sensible.

3) the old GW paints were excellent. I still have a load of the old flip-top paints which are in a perfectly usable state. None of the new range with their poxy screw- top lids have a cat in hells chance of such longevity.

4) Valejo, bless their cotton socks, have just bought out a range of paints which almost exactly mirror the GW range and even have similar names eg. goblin green, skull white, \'bald\' moon yellow, scorpy green etc. As I run out of GW paint I am replacing them with Vallejo\'s range. I can get them cheaper and they come in great little eyedropper bottles so I can put my shoes and socks back on!

I respect GW. They have given this hobby a fantastic boost, but we can\'t let them rip us off. Time to vote with our feet. Multi-coloured barefeet, of course.

 

[sam40k]

ok ok let me rephrase that.

Until GW get a new paint Pot, if it suits your needs, To Loosen the paint stuck round the rims and therefore loosen the lid roll it under your foot. Dont try it with inks tho, it also kinda helps to have a tiled floor .

 

[finn17]

Sorry Sam!

I certainly was not getting at you. I do have certain \'issues\' with GW but I apologise if I have offended you in anyway. It\'s just that your first posting conjured up such a colourful image...?!?
My first thought was of semi-naked Balinese virgins rolling cigars on their bare thighs which slowly transformed into a group of your average GamesWorkshop hangers-on, painting around their little table gently rolling pots of paint under their naked, virginal feet. You have to admit, it\'s an image to conjure with?
Happy painting!

 

[d_coombes]

<snip>
GW has certainly not expanded its range. </snip>
Well since \'99 they\'ve come out with the tau, the necrons, some skeletons, warmaster,2 lotr games, a whole new range of plastic space marines, and some new chaos plastics...

They definitely seem to be moving over to more plastics which was my point.

Personally I\'m thinking GW may be in a bit of trouble right now... the more products they bring out... the fewer per unit they sell so it takes longer to recoup tooling costs... to go back to my skeletons argument... lets say the moulds cost 100,000 dollars to make... the raw materials of a skeleton unit is probably 50 cents... lets say GW sells the skeletons to the shops for 15 bucks... that means they have to sell over 6000 boxes of skeletons to pay for tooling costs... Thats a lot of skeletons... then they bring out another box of skeletons... thats another 6000 boxes of skeletons before they see any profit...

On the other hand with metal minis, the raw materials and the shipping costs are way higher but the actual tooling costs are neglible... which is why even tiny companies can have huge ranges of metal figures....

Note that I made these numbers up... I have no idea of their real costs.. but I\'m guessing they are pretty high...

Another thing is the LOTR game... how much did the license cost them and how many new people did it really bring in? Because if all it did was steal players from their other games... then they are destroying their business...

Of course I maybe completely wrong and they may just be rolling in dosh... dunno.

You can still get all the parts and some really quite old models from the GW website... prices are a bit steep though! I guess as they move over to more webmarketing the paper catalogues will get thinner.

Dave

 

[sam40k]

its alright finn17, tho those paint pots are tough to get open, just trying to help until GW change to a different style of lid/bottle. Also if you can get some, Some thermite would be handy

 

[Chronique]

I learned long ago...

It\'s been a long time since I\'ve bitched about GW stuff being too expensive.

I used to swear all up and down that I’d NEVER EVER buy citadel paints, and finally caved. Not only do I own Citadel paints, but I went for the mega paint set. It just cuts WAY back on your mixing/blending time in the long run. It now takes me half the time it used to. (Plus, I picked my set up on eBay brand new and sealed for $150. So that’s only $2 per jar.)

Besides, I realized that I’ve already spent thousands on GW products, no reason to stop now.

As for the models, I had a friend point out to me the production cost of making a GW mini, from artist conception, to master sculpting, to mold cutting, and some of their models can cost close to 1 Million when all is said and done. That\'s no small chunk, plus I have to say that they have the best collection of fine minis around. Not that I don\'t like Reaper minis or anything, but I do think GW is the best.

All in all, I’d have to say that yeah, you’re right, GW sucks you dry for all you’re worth, but A) People pay it, so they will continue to, and B) It’s far less worse than getting porked by oh, say the IRS, or a car that doesn’t run, YET ANOTHER stupid re-hashed first person shooter computer game that is HALF FINISHED (Yeah, the patch is free but I’m still buying a video game that doesn’t work) or lots of other times that I’ve been suckered into buying crap from soulless corporations. At least GW makes really nice products for all of that money, and it’s run by people who actually do care about their customers. If I have to choose which company to be raped by, I’d have to say the one that makes cool toys. It’s better than oh, say, paying $8.50 to see Rush Hour 5 or some other such crap.

In short, you only get what you pay for, just like anywhere else, and if you look hard enough on eBay and such, you don’t really have to pay full price for GW stuff.

 

[Sturmhalo]

d_coombes:

Yup the cost of machining the moulds for plastics is high but you\'d think that would be taken into account in the final price of those actual models! Increasing the price of paint just to help fund the plastics division isn\'t really justified in my opinion. I\'d expect GW to recoup most of their initial expenses on new products within a matter of days of their release. They do sell huge amounts of stuff world wide after all.

Chronique:

That 1 million figure sounds a hell of a lot, but the high expenses don\'t surprise me! It\'s rather amusing that it will cost GW more to make a figure than a small one man band working from his kitchen table. I mean GW will employ people to produce concept sketches and art work, sculptors to make prototype models and try out different designs, folks to write fluff and stuff, and of course the meetings and brainstorming sessions that must make one hell of dent in the coffee and biscuits allowance! Then you\'ve got Dave A Sculptor working on his kitchen table. He does some design sketches, sculpts a range of models and then sends them to a nice chap who makes the moulds and casts them. Voila! Finished models ready for sale!

 

[Maori]

Don\'t forget all the focus group research telling them what the \'market\' - 6-18 year old males - will buy, and the accountants figuring out what maximum amount to charge for it.
They cost money, too....

 

[lonewolf]

GW are a multi million dollar company with branches all over the world and expanding all the time.
i work in the plastic injection moulding business and whereas a tool may cost about £30,000 the actual production costs are negligable. i.e. i play tyranids now i know that the tool that makes gaunt sprues probably makes about 4 sprues at a time running about a 15-20 second cycle. all in all a sprue would cost 2 to 5 pence to make (they dont even have any costs for de-spruing or clening up the sprues) so a box of gaunts ( 4 hormagaunt sprues/4 termagaunt sprues and a biomorph sprue) would cost less than £1 to make. they produce thier own packaging so the costs for that are minimal (were talking pennys per box)
so produced for £1.50 and sold at £15.
now thats a profit margin!!!

now i know GW has to get it designed and sculpted etc. but they dont pay their staff that well my friend ho has won 3 golden deamons and 2 slayer swords worked for the heavy metal team for a while any i was payed more for working in a factory.
not too impressive considering the speciality of miniature painting.

in my opinion GW make an absolute killing when it comes to thier sales they charge us what they want and put the prices up however much they want but were the ones to blame because we still walk in and buy it!

 

[Coyote]

GW is a company. They have investors, they have stocks.

If you\'re stocks aren\'t rising, you are struggling, period. No matter what your actually business is doing, your stocks either a doing well, or doing poorly.

Stocks go up when you increase profits. Not make a profit, increase profits.

Thus, GW must constantly increase their profits. They do so by raising prices.

Price isn\'t determined by production costs. Price is determined by demand. GW will always charge what people are willing to pay.

If you just said: Forget GW run tournaments, I just want to play a game with my pals without paying too much.

Well, there are games with free rules and cheap miniatures available.

Heck, get into historical games, or any game where one company doesn\'t own the copyright on the armies involved. Then you can choose between manufacturers and play in country-wide tournaments (like DBM) while spending $100 on a full, entire army.