Harbinger lives!!!
- Thread starter Harbinger
- Start date
tidoco2222
Active member
Anymore updates, now I have been told that you are on the up again I am finding waiting to read the PDF\'s very difficult 
,
,spider monkey
New member
Harbinger fires like a phoenix
*CELESTIAL MUSIC PLAYS*
at last i knew it wouldn\'t, couldn\'t die.
long live HARBINGER!
btw this is may first post. WOOHOO!
*CELESTIAL MUSIC PLAYS*
at last i knew it wouldn\'t, couldn\'t die.
long live HARBINGER!
btw this is may first post. WOOHOO!
philologus
Subgenius
Welcome Spider monkey! We used to have a Marmoset but he morphed into a penguin.
tabletopcommander
New member
Miniature Gaming Magazine questions
Hello Mark:
I always wondered how magazines like White Dwarf are so successful while publishing info about their products only while others which have a pool of potential clients (every other miniature related company) lasted so little.
I\'m using Forge and Harbinger as an example. I would have thought that all those sponsors would offset many if not all of the expenses, unless the main reason for the downfall was not monetary.
At one time while looking for Forge Magazine to find out current products offered by GW\'s competitors I was told that it was out of print for quite a while and that the closest thing to it\'s modern version would be Harbinger (which I was told had recently stopped circulation).
I hope your new endevor is as successful as GW\'s and are able to take the hobby to the next level.
Good luck
Luis Joel
Hello Mark:
I always wondered how magazines like White Dwarf are so successful while publishing info about their products only while others which have a pool of potential clients (every other miniature related company) lasted so little.
I\'m using Forge and Harbinger as an example. I would have thought that all those sponsors would offset many if not all of the expenses, unless the main reason for the downfall was not monetary.
At one time while looking for Forge Magazine to find out current products offered by GW\'s competitors I was told that it was out of print for quite a while and that the closest thing to it\'s modern version would be Harbinger (which I was told had recently stopped circulation).
I hope your new endevor is as successful as GW\'s and are able to take the hobby to the next level.
Good luck
Luis Joel
Right..... so all those other contest don\'t existe. And as far as I was aware it seemed to me that the most prestigious contest for painters was the world expo. Saying that the harbinger contest will be the only alternative to the golden deamon seems a bit disrespectful to all the other contests who exist out there.
Other than that, good luck with the new start. May your customer comunication be better then last time
Orb
procrastinator
Originally posted by frenchkid
Right..... so all those other contest don\'t existe. And as far as I was aware it seemed to me that the most prestigious contest for painters was the world expo. Saying that the harbinger contest will be the only alternative to the golden deamon seems a bit disrespectful to all the other contests who exist out there.
Other than that, good luck with the new start. May your customer comunication be better then last time
There are many contests out there, but non specifically for fantasy/sci-fi. The World Expo is still, mainly, a historicals event. Golden Demon has become the defacto competition for fantasy/sci-fi because of the dominance of GW in the marketplace. Simple as that. The Mond de Jeu seems like it may attempt to add an \"open\" competiton as as a stand up to GW; Euro Militaire now has a fantasy category too. Most European competitions are of an \"open\" style but the vast majority of the public still only knows of the Golden Demons, despite their rigid narrow criteria and the fact it\'s one companies own competiton.......
I suppose they\'re successful because they publish about their own products. I mean, WD is a powerful marketing and advertising tool for GW. Even if WD, on its own, made a loss (which I doubt), I expect the indirect profits would more than make up for any loss.
The same cannot be said for independent gaming and mini magazines - they rely on magazine sales and advertising.
And welcome, tabletopcommander.
Well my local model shop (as in Airfix etc) owner said he may have to close as he cant compete with Games Workshop arround the corner and Spirit Games, my \"local\" miniatures shop has lost loads of business after a Games Workshop opened in the nearby shopping centre.
Games Workshop is the biggest name in the industry so I suppose its only natural thier pet contest will have the highest exposure. Hmm I feel the need to get a drink...
Games Workshop is the biggest name in the industry so I suppose its only natural thier pet contest will have the highest exposure. Hmm I feel the need to get a drink...
tabletopcommander
New member
Miniature Gaming Magazine Suggestions
Hello Modderrhu:
What do you think about the following options that might help out a miniature magazine:
1. \"Name XXXX - A GW Compatible Miniature Magazine\" (If legal)
Just as \"White Dwarf - A monthly miniature magazine\".
2. Get top quality printing from cheaper suppliers. ie: Costa Rica, Dom.Republic, Colombia - large volumes can go for about 50% of what it costs in USA or UK.
**For those prices you might be willing to fly there, make sure of the job\'s quality, enjoy the country and still have plenty of money left for misc/unexpected expenses, etc...
3. Have industry\'s suppliers buy pages for ads and Aditorials (Ads that look like an editorial but sells the product being displayed / like what the Public Relations companies do).
4. Support internet groups (yahoo, msn, etc...) through page listings in exchange of their support on their groups\' page (just like link exchange).
5. Encourage game battles between different companies\' armies. ie: Warzone\'s Bauhaus vs. GW\'s Space Orks with whichever rules the players would rather use.
6. Reward competitors or readers who submit pictures of their models showing recycling efforts through scratchbuilding and card modelling. It\'s hard to measure goodwill but should be able to get you mentioned (if you take the time to let all news media know).
7. Have a signature miniature brand to support w/out neglecting their sponsors (Warzone for Forge Magazine & Griffin for Harbinger).
8. Create a superior level web page that will not only rival but blow away anything in the market. (I\'m a barter broker for ITEX and am sure that somewhere there\'s got to be a wargame/miniature fan that would love to do the page and its updates in exchange of an everlasting subscription, a link and/or banner to his webpage (where readers can view services and other works in his gallery), credited in list of contributors/staff in magazine and plenty of miniatures up to a specified amount (from the magazines\' miniature line or from sponsors).
Well guys, that should cover about 25% of the ideas I thought would work if I was to start a magazine of my own. I would tell you the rest but who knows what the future will bring.
Take care,
Luis Joel:evil:
Hello Modderrhu:
What do you think about the following options that might help out a miniature magazine:
1. \"Name XXXX - A GW Compatible Miniature Magazine\" (If legal)
Just as \"White Dwarf - A monthly miniature magazine\".
2. Get top quality printing from cheaper suppliers. ie: Costa Rica, Dom.Republic, Colombia - large volumes can go for about 50% of what it costs in USA or UK.
**For those prices you might be willing to fly there, make sure of the job\'s quality, enjoy the country and still have plenty of money left for misc/unexpected expenses, etc...
3. Have industry\'s suppliers buy pages for ads and Aditorials (Ads that look like an editorial but sells the product being displayed / like what the Public Relations companies do).
4. Support internet groups (yahoo, msn, etc...) through page listings in exchange of their support on their groups\' page (just like link exchange).
5. Encourage game battles between different companies\' armies. ie: Warzone\'s Bauhaus vs. GW\'s Space Orks with whichever rules the players would rather use.
6. Reward competitors or readers who submit pictures of their models showing recycling efforts through scratchbuilding and card modelling. It\'s hard to measure goodwill but should be able to get you mentioned (if you take the time to let all news media know).
7. Have a signature miniature brand to support w/out neglecting their sponsors (Warzone for Forge Magazine & Griffin for Harbinger).
8. Create a superior level web page that will not only rival but blow away anything in the market. (I\'m a barter broker for ITEX and am sure that somewhere there\'s got to be a wargame/miniature fan that would love to do the page and its updates in exchange of an everlasting subscription, a link and/or banner to his webpage (where readers can view services and other works in his gallery), credited in list of contributors/staff in magazine and plenty of miniatures up to a specified amount (from the magazines\' miniature line or from sponsors).
Well guys, that should cover about 25% of the ideas I thought would work if I was to start a magazine of my own. I would tell you the rest but who knows what the future will bring.
Take care,
Luis Joel:evil:
Infidel Castro
New member
Originally posted by Modderrhu
I suppose they\'re successful because they publish about their own products. I mean, WD is a powerful marketing and advertising tool for GW. Even if WD, on its own, made a loss (which I doubt), I expect the indirect profits would more than make up for any loss.
The same cannot be said for independent gaming and mini magazines - they rely on magazine sales and advertising.
And welcome, tabletopcommander.
Don\'t forget now, WD started off as a broad magazine for RPG\'s, wargames and oddities. It only developed into what it is thorugh developing its own games over time.
tabletopcommander
New member
Miniature Gaming Magazine Suggestions
Gracias Reverendo!!
I think to have a line of miniatures to go side by side with the publication is the way to go, but think that having the company\'s products as the only items on the magazine would be suicidal if not for the excellent marketing effort/structure used by GW.
I\'ve been collecting WD magazines since early 90\'s and back then they had sponsors that didn\'t compete with them (rock concerts, etc...); I would have thought that filling 100pgs w/sponsors from all manufacturing and services categories (paints, terrain, miniatures, painting svcs, events, etc...) would be easier that making profitable a project out of a mag\'s support to the main product.
How can a company like GW excel offering just their products thru their mags , even with all the complaints I constantly read about (regarding just about everything) yet others w/their own minis and a pool of outside supporters providing financial support thru advertising space purchases fail to survive?
I can vouch for the lack of service from GW as not only have I heard negative comments from every retailer that has contacted them from here in PR, but I have also left countless messages requesting info and never got a call back. With that performance one would think that they would sink like a rock yet they make more products and publish a better magazine each month. They must be doing something right.
When you guys find out what THAT is, please let me know!!
And also tell me:
Do you know by any chance what was Forge\'s & Harbingers downfall????? :flame:
Gracias Reverendo!!
I think to have a line of miniatures to go side by side with the publication is the way to go, but think that having the company\'s products as the only items on the magazine would be suicidal if not for the excellent marketing effort/structure used by GW.
I\'ve been collecting WD magazines since early 90\'s and back then they had sponsors that didn\'t compete with them (rock concerts, etc...); I would have thought that filling 100pgs w/sponsors from all manufacturing and services categories (paints, terrain, miniatures, painting svcs, events, etc...) would be easier that making profitable a project out of a mag\'s support to the main product.
How can a company like GW excel offering just their products thru their mags , even with all the complaints I constantly read about (regarding just about everything) yet others w/their own minis and a pool of outside supporters providing financial support thru advertising space purchases fail to survive?
I can vouch for the lack of service from GW as not only have I heard negative comments from every retailer that has contacted them from here in PR, but I have also left countless messages requesting info and never got a call back. With that performance one would think that they would sink like a rock yet they make more products and publish a better magazine each month. They must be doing something right.
When you guys find out what THAT is, please let me know!!
And also tell me:
Do you know by any chance what was Forge\'s & Harbingers downfall????? :flame:
Wren
Member
I don\'t know that we have all the details with Harbinger, but when the magazine closed, one of the people who ran it came on to CMON and said that things were actually going very well for the mag. What happened is they had an outside investor, and that person/firm decided to close the magazine and sell off the assets for profit. There\'s more info in these two threads.
thread one
thread two
thread one
thread two
tabletopcommander
New member
Harbinger cont.
Hello Wren:
Thanks for the threads you included previously. They gave me a good and quick idea of what happened.
I noticed comments including:
* Quality lowered on last issues.
* Customer service not very helpful.
* Pricing above competitors\'.
* Lack of USA distribution/publishing agreements.
How many of these points could Harbinger\'s team have overcome after the 2 1/2 year run?? I remember reading a post by a team member (not Mark) saying that they had finally overcome many of the biggest obstacles and were about to turn profitable (successful - or something to that effect).
I wonder, how many of the points mentioned in the posts (from gamers, readers & prospective customers) would have been fixed if the mag had run for - \"lets say a year (12 mo)\".
* Quality (printing or info) - Maybe
* Customer Service - Not Likely (I worked in a co. that had vehicles decaled saying \"Please call ###-###-#### if this vehicle is being driven in a careless manner\" and whenever someone did call the owner would shrug it off saying \"Whom should I support, my employee that I know or some smuck that I\'ve never met before).
* Pricing - Never (What are the chances of a company lowering their publications\' prices... They might offer more for the same price (which would win members\' loyalty) but that wouldn\'t get clients who think it is too much to pay due to budget or preference.
* Distribution & Publishing agreements in USA - I got no clue . Maybe someone might shed some light into this point in particular, but its odd that in their time in business they didn\'t look into that matter.
So far GW has A+ in all points at least regarding WD. I remember calling them way back and cracking up w/laughter after calling GW in USA and hearing the \"on hold message\" or the sales reps mentioning that \"the trolls were busy on the lines w/customers\". To this day I\'ve never heard any customer dept give as good a svcs as GW\'s. Now support for retail stores and for the Latin American market are a whole different story!!
Gotta go!! Let me know what you guys think. Who knows, we might start something from all of this.
Take care,
Luis Joel
Hello Wren:
Thanks for the threads you included previously. They gave me a good and quick idea of what happened.
I noticed comments including:
* Quality lowered on last issues.
* Customer service not very helpful.
* Pricing above competitors\'.
* Lack of USA distribution/publishing agreements.
How many of these points could Harbinger\'s team have overcome after the 2 1/2 year run?? I remember reading a post by a team member (not Mark) saying that they had finally overcome many of the biggest obstacles and were about to turn profitable (successful - or something to that effect).
I wonder, how many of the points mentioned in the posts (from gamers, readers & prospective customers) would have been fixed if the mag had run for - \"lets say a year (12 mo)\".
* Quality (printing or info) - Maybe
* Customer Service - Not Likely (I worked in a co. that had vehicles decaled saying \"Please call ###-###-#### if this vehicle is being driven in a careless manner\" and whenever someone did call the owner would shrug it off saying \"Whom should I support, my employee that I know or some smuck that I\'ve never met before).
* Pricing - Never (What are the chances of a company lowering their publications\' prices... They might offer more for the same price (which would win members\' loyalty) but that wouldn\'t get clients who think it is too much to pay due to budget or preference.
* Distribution & Publishing agreements in USA - I got no clue . Maybe someone might shed some light into this point in particular, but its odd that in their time in business they didn\'t look into that matter.
So far GW has A+ in all points at least regarding WD. I remember calling them way back and cracking up w/laughter after calling GW in USA and hearing the \"on hold message\" or the sales reps mentioning that \"the trolls were busy on the lines w/customers\". To this day I\'ve never heard any customer dept give as good a svcs as GW\'s. Now support for retail stores and for the Latin American market are a whole different story!!
Gotta go!! Let me know what you guys think. Who knows, we might start something from all of this.
Take care,
Luis Joel
james sequeira
New member
i used to buy WD when i first got into the hobby.i bought acouple of harbingers awhile back and they are miles better than WD.
WD seems to be going down hill now the lotr people complaining about coverage.so they sort that out now the wfb people complain.
WD seems to be going down hill now the lotr people complaining about coverage.so they sort that out now the wfb people complain.
tabletopcommander
New member
Harbinger cont.
Hi guys:
Start date??? When we band together!
I\'ve never had the pleasure of checking out a Harbinger Magazine so I went by what I read in this forum when mentioning quality level. I do agree w/your lack of interest in LotR info, but I\'m sure there\'s got to be a nice fan base (or paycheck) or the project would have been dropped.
I haven\'t compared WH and LotR miniatures for size purposes but I\'ve been told they differ in order to avoid gamers from using them w/different games and rules. That\'s low!!
Later,
Luis Joel
Hi guys:
Start date??? When we band together!
I\'ve never had the pleasure of checking out a Harbinger Magazine so I went by what I read in this forum when mentioning quality level. I do agree w/your lack of interest in LotR info, but I\'m sure there\'s got to be a nice fan base (or paycheck) or the project would have been dropped.
I haven\'t compared WH and LotR miniatures for size purposes but I\'ve been told they differ in order to avoid gamers from using them w/different games and rules. That\'s low!!
Later,
Luis Joel
