Has anyone else...

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t_haye2

Guest
Originally posted by Astonia
@ IPM
Yeah, the jail was probably nice except from being...a jail! I don\'t think it matters how big your bed is if you don\'t get to decide when to go to it, when to eat, who to see, etc. etc. The point about being in jail is to not have your freedom.

And the gay thing..I bet the males enjoy some homosexual activity in their jails as well (ever seen OZ?) ;)
And really, who cares about peoples sexual preferences?
(Not trying to attack you here, just my 2 cents)


Hehehehe, but on the other hand, do \'free\' people really get to decide when they get out of bed, what they eat, who they see etc? We all have to get up to go to work/school/whatever, eat at specified times, see people only when we \'can\' see them(IE spare time) etc etc.....or am I going to philosofical here again......
 

finn17

New member
Head, nail, hit...

Originally posted by t_haye2
Hehehehe, but on the other hand, do \'free\' people really get to decide when they get out of bed, what they eat, who they see etc? We all have to get up to go to work/school/whatever, eat at specified times, see people only when we \'can\' see them(IE spare time) etc etc.....or am I going to philosofical here again......
Spot on....and good point well made:D
 

Astonia

New member
Well, of course, that\'s true, but if we \"free people\" don\'t like our situation, we can change it. If you\'re locked up for ten years, you can\'t do anything about it, you don\'t even have the possibilty, and that\'s what\'s different I think.
But of course, I\'m also a slave to the every day \" have to\'s\" ; ) For example, right now I just have to paint minis...:D
 

finn17

New member
Can we...really..??

Originally posted by Astonia
Well, of course, that\'s true, but if we \"free people\" don\'t like our situation, we can change it.
I am afraid most normal people can\'t simply \'change\' their situation. Not without leaving their clothes on the beach and doing a \'Reggie Perrin\' - (faking their own suicide). Things like mortgages, spouses, kids, etc get in the way...:flip:
 

Astonia

New member
Of course, but at least you then have a family that you get to see, a house to live in and a job to go to, right? You can go to the pub and have a beer, see your friends, go on vacation, go outside when you want to etc. etc. I still feel that people outside of the jails are more free than prisoners, and that\'s why I think that it\'s a punishment to be in jail. No matter how many cable channels they might have ;)
 

finn17

New member
That\'s true...very true...

Originally posted by Astonia
Of course, but at least you then have a family that you get to see, a house to live in and a job to go to, right? You can go to the pub and have a beer, see your friends, go on vacation, go outside when you want to etc. etc. I still feel that people outside of the jails are more free than prisoners, and that\'s why I think that it\'s a punishment to be in jail. No matter how many cable channels they might have ;)
But then again, I don\'t recall raping, murdering, torturing or kidnapping anyone lately....so perhaps I am entitled to my few little luxuries:D
 

airhead

Coffin Dodger / Keymaster
Originally posted by finn17
I am afraid most normal people can\'t simply \'change\' their situation. Not without leaving their clothes on the beach and doing a \'Reggie Perrin\'. - (faking their own suicide). Things like mortgages, spouses, kids, etc get in the way...:flip:
Amen Brother. Want a new job, but have to be one that at least makes as much as I do now so I can stay in the level of debt that I currently exist in.
 

Astonia

New member
...and sisters

..student loans up to approx. £20 000 now I think. And I still don\'t know what to do with my life??? Except painiting minis of course :D
 
T

t_haye2

Guest
Originally posted by Astonia
Of course, but at least you then have a family that you get to see, a house to live in and a job to go to, right? You can go to the pub and have a beer, see your friends, go on vacation, go outside when you want to etc. etc. I still feel that people outside of the jails are more free than prisoners, and that\'s why I think that it\'s a punishment to be in jail. No matter how many cable channels they might have ;)

he...i might well be in jail then, I might be better off. i don\';t see my family at all(them being in a different country and all), i don\'t have a house(just a stingy 4 by 3 meter room), i don;t have a job \'to go to\'(since I work from the same small room), i hardly ever go to the pub nowadays(no money) and hence don\'t see my firends often, and I\'m SO not going on holiday this year.....AND I don;t even have cable! hmmm....murder seems like a good option all of a sudden, Avicenna! come here dear, i have something for you....
lollollollollollollol

We\'re all prisoners of society and it\'s expectations...at least even the rich aren\'t free, they only have the luxury to call their madmen \'excentric\'...
 
From someone who studies Serial Murder and Psychopathy as a hobby (yes, I am one wierd 15 year old) it is almost always partially a troubled upbringing or bad experience in life that turns someone into a serial murderer or spree/mass murderer.

I\'d post examples but the ones coming to mind right now might get em banned.
 

darthfoley

Active member
Originally posted by finn17
Originally posted by Astonia
Of course, but at least you then have a family that you get to see, a house to live in and a job to go to, right? You can go to the pub and have a beer, see your friends, go on vacation, go outside when you want to etc. etc. I still feel that people outside of the jails are more free than prisoners, and that\'s why I think that it\'s a punishment to be in jail. No matter how many cable channels they might have ;)
But then again, I don\'t recall raping, murdering, torturing or kidnapping anyone lately....so perhaps I am entitled to my few little luxuries:D

*DING* Finn wins the round. And buys the next round. ;)

Here\'s a little anecdote I picked up from a friend who works in a local \'halfway house\' concerning a kid who he deals with every day. In this institution, you work to achieve various \'levels\'; level 1 gets you the right to do activity x, level 2 gets you activity y, etc. At level 5, you get to go home. Do something wrong, lose a level. This kid, when he gets to level 4 and approaching his level 5 certification, without fail, will resort to eating his own poo in order to get demoted so he can stay in the center.

Why?

Cause it\'s better than what he has at home. Why would he want to get out of a place where he has structure, order, cable, 3 meals a day, a bed of his own, and doesn\'t have to pay for it?

(coincidentally, to Braveheart...Criminal Justice bachelor\'s here as well) :D
 

Astonia

New member
Well, first of all I just want to say that the things Finn calls luxuries, I call normal life (except from the going on vcacation, studens are poor :() To have all that taken away is a punishment, that\'s what I ment. If you didn\'t have it in the first place, then we need to ask ourselves why? Because your parents are criminals, poor, junkies or what else, but then the problem needs to be solved at that early level, when you\'re a kid. Before you start doing all the bad stuff. I don\'t think everything can be prevented by fighting poverty, but I do think a lot of criminal careers are started in poverty and from seeing no hope or future.

Now, about that kid eating poo. Instead of just releasing him at level 5, help him to get a job (pretty hard when having a record I guess) and a place to live and some self esteem, and maybe there\'s a prevented crime right there! Hm, I realise I sound pretty hippie, but hey, that\'s me :)
*phew* what a night at the forums :)
 

Evil Dave

New member
@crombad- Don\'t diss the military.
The military is full of volunteers who put up with worse conditions than our prisoners, if you don\'t believe me go take a tour of a naval ship. These people serve our society and make it possible for us to enjoy the freedoms we and many other nations have.

@Frenchkid - By all means I will agree it is killing, but better them than their next victim, I don\'t believe in letting innocents be at risk when someone is a proven killer or rapist, once again killing them is the only 100% way to be sure.

It seems to me a lot of people would rather just lock them up and let them be a burden on the society they threaten and on future societies.

To me this seems to be cruel and unusual punishment, death is a natural part of life and inevitable.

I for one would like to see our prisoners put to work bettering society, there are tons of landfills full of recyclables that we could have them seperating.
 

CromBad

New member
Originally posted by Evil Dave
@crombad- Don\'t diss the military.
The military is full of volunteers who put up with worse conditions than our prisoners, if you don\'t believe me go take a tour of a naval ship. These people serve our society and make it possible for us to enjoy the freedoms we and many other nations have.


I\'m not dissing them, and I have friends who are in the various armed forces, I just think that maybe so much money could be better spent elsewhere. 396.1 billion is a lot for ANY military, and just for comparison the next highest is over 300 billion below...

I was merely bringing up this issue in relation to all of the finacial needs in regards to maintaining prisons, and how it is \"apparently\" more worthwhile to kill someone instead of keeping them locked up.
 

Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by CromBad
I was merely bringing up this issue in relation to all of the finacial needs in regards to maintaining prisons, and how it is \"apparently\" more worthwhile to kill someone instead of keeping them locked up.

If this protects my loved ones from becoming victims themselves, by all means kill the murderers and rapists.
Because no one here can guarantee the prisoners that are locked up for life will actually stay locked up for life.
Nor can anyone guarantee, those that get off with the insanity plea will not do it again.

There are, as I\'ve stated before, many luxuries in the prisons, that many hard working, law-abiding citizens cannot afford.
I firmly believe that one who is incapable of following the laws of our lands should not be treated better than our poorest law-abiding citizens. Prison should be friggin scary, not some health club.
 

Braveheart712

New member
Note to Frenchkid...Tami too

Two points.

First you want clarification on the relationship between god and killing. It is quite simple. You see I am a Christian and darn proud of it, that means I believe in the Bible. The Bible is a testimony of the love of God and forgiveness through Jesus Christ, however no where in the Bible does it say that forgiveness absolves anyone for paying the penalty for their actions in this life. Read the old testiment, there are detailed punishments for crimes in the Bible. I seem to remember something about \"Thou shall not kill\" being written somewhere in there, and yes there is a huge difference between someone who kills somebody without just cause and someone who carries out the penalty for a crime.


Second, it is about money but their are other costs involved keeping the dregs of society alive. I am a taxpayer, and I do have the right to choose how my taxes are spent. I would rather see my money spent on health care, schools, assisting the elderly and poor, etc, than keeping food, shelter, clothing, cable TV, free education, etc to someone who only deserves the punishment that he or she begged for by committing the crime that they were found guilty. If you feel so strongly about keeping these people alive, then you do it, you support them, you explain to the families of the people who these criminals victimize again when released back into society why they were kept alive and let out, you telll the wife of the guard or police officer why her children are fatherless now because we kept alive a killer to commit more crimes. I for one would like to seee less prisons, less crime, and more people held responsible for their actions.

Lastly, to Tami, while Australia is a nice idea to support your arguement, you should know that most of the prisoners released on that penal colony were political prisoners and individuals that were deemed unloyal to the crown. At that point in your history, England still practiced the death penalty for murder.

Tami and Frenchkid, I do love your work here on CMON and I find you both are greatly talented and inspiring, please understand that we think differenty here on this topic but I still have the utmost respect for both of your artistic talents.
 

Gin1906

New member
Originally posted by Astonia
Well to really protect society from its own citizenswe have to find out why people become murderes and such in the first place. If you don\'t believe that people are born evil, and I don\'t, then something went wrong somewhere. Instead of turning its back on them, society should try to fix the problems that leads to individuals becoming like this, instead of killing them once the damage is done. .

First let me start by sharing my husband views...
Trial, guilty verdict, give him or her a minute to say good bye to family, take him out back and put a bullet in his or her head. This would cause a couple of things to occur, first fewer murders when people realize \"OH Sh*t They Will Shot Me\" Second, the courts will be forced to do a better job making sure that the person really is guilty, cause if you kill a couple of innocent people by mistake your gonna loose you job.

Ok that is my husband views, I share most of them.
As to people doing horrible things because of how they were raised, or bad things that happened to them as a child that is complete and utter CRAP!
if that were the case then I would be in jail now, here is a breif example...
I was raise in a large family, 7 girls, we were dirt poor, and I do mean DIRT POOR.
I left home the week I turned 15, I was Molested by my father, I spent two years living in foster care, in those two years I was moved no less than 7 times, not because I was a problem child, but because that is what the system did. When I turned 18 I was made to leave the foster home I was living in, I lived for 3 months with friend while I finished High School. After H.S. I got a place of my own, went to collage, Was Raped, quit school, got married to a really not nice guy, left, joined the military, spent 3 years defending my country, oh and went to war. Left the military, went back to collage. Finished School, got married, have two kids. Now, according to some people, gosh I grew up poor, was sexually molested, and raped, wow then I should be a bad person, or at least if I ever decide to be a bad person then I can blame it on my child hood. I Think NOT, We are who we decide to be, I decided when I was placed in Foster Care, that I was going to be a happy good person, that I was going to be a member of sociaty. My past does not dictate who I am or how I act.:flame: I decide that.
RANT OFF.....

Sorry folks that is a real hot button, oh it must be something that happened to them, Rapists and Murderers make that choice, And for making that choice, deserve to be punnished, and if that mean ending their lives so that they can never harm anyone else, then so be it.
Frenchkid, I ask the same a Flinn do you pay taxes? or better yet, have you ever been abuse, assulted, raped, or had a loved one murdered? If you ever have to answer yes to any of those things, (except the tax thing) maybe you will change your mind about the death penelty.

Whew I think I am going to go to bed now.
 
M
ANyone else think that the murder penalty is wrong. It seems hypocritical to me. Kill people to teach people that killing is wrong. Ghandi said \"An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind\" or something like that. The government is no better than people who kill if they kill people themselves. Rehabilitation over punishment, they will get theirs sooner or later. I think not just criminals should be held responsible for their crimes. People who make semi-automatic pistols that aren\'t for sport, target practice, or for police use should be punished. Guns and other weapons need to be regulated, people shouldn\'t have guns to protect themselves from other people who have guns.
 

darthfoley

Active member
Rehabilitation? It\'s just a made-up word. A word so young fellas can wear a tie and have a job.


*sorry, I was possessed by the paraphrased spirit of Morgan Freeman in Shawshank Redemption*
 
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