hell, handbasket, meet earth....

[Ritual]

Iran is also supporting Hezbollah, and they also have a pretty shady regime, to speak mildly. They are also a pretty damn powerful country and, like Syria, have no love for Israel.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by EricJ
In the Israeli/Palastinian situation it\'s pretty much you have to say either they\'re both right, or both wrong, as basically their rational for actions are pretty much the same, wether it be defending their homeland, protecting their safety and security, retaliation, etc...the list goes on. However since 1967 Israel has become an obvious military and economic powerhouse in the region and largely the results on the land has dictated that might makes right. How this will ever end is really anyones guess.

However the situation between the Hezbollah and northern Israel is far different because basically the situation is between Syria and Israel. Syrian Leader Assad is in NO way a friend to the palastinians, and in fact has been SO cruel to them that it makes Israel look good. Rather it seems more to be a power play to assure his continued power, and essentually giving his people someone to hate, so they don\'t have time to realize that they really should be hating him.

It is an old saying, that to control a people you MUST give them something to hate and something to love, which we can see being used extensively throughout middle eastern dictatorships/Theocracies, as well as most notably historically in Facist Germany. (And presently the US?)

Bottom line is that there nothing I can think of to defend Syria\'s role, and I have to say that it is as much the fault of Syria as Israel for the desctruction of Lebenon.

I would have loved to see Lebenon 50 years ago, it sounds like it was a beautiful place.

Let\'s not forget Iran, either.
Iran and Syria are using these \"groups\" to strike at Israel, so that they can wash their hands clean by saying they are not state sponsored armies.
In essence trying to cover their tracks and prevent war on their turf, Lebanon is caught in the middle.

What\'s really interesting is that the Saudi\'s and other Arab nations are not foaming at the mouth over Israels attacks, even condemning Hezbollah, much to Hezbollah\'s surprise.
Could it be the rest of the Arab nations are just as tired of Hezbollah as Israel is?
Could it be they are hoping Israel takes down the Iran\'s madman president before Iran aquires nukes?

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by Evil Dave
What\'s really interesting is that the Saudi\'s and other Arab nations are not foaming at the mouth over Israels attacks, even condemning Hezbollah, much to Hezbollah\'s surprise.
Could it be the rest of the Arab nations are just as tired of Hezbollah as Israel is?
Could it be they are hoping Israel takes down the Iran\'s madman president before Iran aquires nukes?

I think most other Arab nations want to prevent a full-scale war in their region and I think they are afraid of the effects on the global economy, which would strike hard at their own economies. Especially seeing as their only commodity worth mentioning is oil.

 

[RedSevenBlue]

Has anyone ever watched the news at night here in America, we are idiots! I was watching the news and they were showing live coverage of Spec. Ops. being inserted to take down terrorists somewhere and it was live footage, meaning the terrorists inside coulda been watching the news and seeing what\'s about to happen. Sweden has the right idea, going neutral.

 

[Swordwind]

One of the soldiers that were captured is the same age as me. Kinda brings it home.

An Israeli General on the news said they\'ll pull out as soon as the soldiers are released and that if they arent they can do a hell of a lot more damage than they have been doing. The thing is those soldiers are probably dead by now anyway.

And the media is throwing up a storm about WW3 because of one of Nostradamus\' predictions saying that it would start in the middle east and would happen at the start of the 21st century. Theres a bunch of stuff in the bible too apparently.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by Ritual

Originally posted by Evil Dave
What\'s really interesting is that the Saudi\'s and other Arab nations are not foaming at the mouth over Israels attacks, even condemning Hezbollah, much to Hezbollah\'s surprise.
Could it be the rest of the Arab nations are just as tired of Hezbollah as Israel is?
Could it be they are hoping Israel takes down the Iran\'s madman president before Iran aquires nukes?

I think most other Arab nations want to prevent a full-scale war in their region and I think they are afraid of the effects on the global economy, which would strike hard at their own economies. Especially seeing as their only commodity worth mentioning is oil.

Ah, but you don\'t think they see that Syria and Iran are the key players in preventing peace?
I\'d be willing to bet they do.

 

[Ritual]

I bet they do too, but they don\'t want to get involved and they don\'t want to suffer the consequences.

 

[EricJ]

Well who, other than Iran and Syria is left to support the Hezzbolah?

Egypt - 2nd largest (after Israel) reciepient of foriegn aid from the US, and piece treaty with Israel

Saudi Arabia - At least governmentally allied with the US, of course there is a lot going on in the country among the people which is anti US/Israel as we saw on 9/11.

Jordan - Also friendly with the US, sort of gave up any thought of being able to hurt israel...this country doesn\'t have much going for it other than silicon mines and tourism.

Turkey - A secular state, wants the EU to like them

Yemen, Oman - who cares

UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait - More concerned with selling oil and being ungodly rich, and of course tourism and filling up western universities.

Afganastan - Has their own problems

Libya - Trying to behave, sort of, also with serious problems of their own.

Iraq - no comment.

So there isn\'t really anyone left to support the Hezzbolah, largely because the all mighty $$ is the new law of the land. Will this end up being better or worse? I guess we\'ll see.

 

[RedSevenBlue]

Originally posted by Swordwind
One of the soldiers that were captured is the same age as me. Kinda brings it home.

An Israeli General on the news said they\'ll pull out as soon as the soldiers are released and that if they arent they can do a hell of a lot more damage than they have been doing. The thing is those soldiers are probably dead by now anyway.

And the media is throwing up a storm about WW3 because of one of Nostradamus\' predictions saying that it would start in the middle east and would happen at the start of the 21st century. Theres a bunch of stuff in the bible too apparently.

Nostradamas is way too vague to make out what he\'s actually talking about. Damn heretic. lol

 

[wiccanpony]

??? On the violence world wide.. I don’t like it, but have no answers on how to stop it.


Stem cell is another story: I would dearly love to slap W Bush up the side head...he may slow down research in the US, but it’s still going to happen, the rest of the scientific world will be working on cures with or without our impute.
Members of my family, friends and myself would benefit from this research greatly, so I’m all for it.

 

[vincegamer]

Yeah, back on the stem cells, scientists are creating embryonic stem cells all the time. Mostly they are going to get tossed.
Why should our government withhold funding from groups trying to improve the lot of sick people by using what is otherwise garbage?

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by Swordwind
An Israeli General on the news said they\'ll pull out as soon as the soldiers are released and that if they arent they can do a hell of a lot more damage than they have been doing. The thing is those soldiers are probably dead by now anyway.

Of course, thus making \"releasing them\' impossible. It\'s the old trick of demanding peace conditions that cannot be fulfilled, thus \"justifying\" further destruction.

Re stem cells:

Originally seen on Slashdot:
\"For ****\'s sake. It\'s pretty much just agreed the world over that science will be constantly used to create new and horrible weapons that could kill increasingly large numbers of people in increasingly horrible ways, but that strangely enough it\'s expected will never be used. You tell someone about Russia restarting its nuclear weapons research program and people just shrug and go, meh, they do that.

But if it turns out science might be at some point to do something that, rather than being horrific and violent, is merely strange, people freak the **** out. A bomb that can kill billions in a single moment is shrugged off as normal. But tell someone that someone might be growing sheep with human livers, and what\'s the response? Oh no! What a horrible perversion of nature! Why do we continue to let such horrible things happen! Never mind that this, you know, has the capacity to save lives or create useful technology on a huge scale. It\'s \"unnatural!\" Of course, so is fire and clothing and the internet. But for some reason those are okay and genetic engineering is not.\"

I can\'t say it better myself.

 

[Swordwind]

Originally posted by No Such Agency
Re stem cells:

Originally seen on Slashdot:
\"For fuck\'s sake. It\'s pretty much just agreed the world over that science will be constantly used to create new and horrible weapons that could kill increasingly large numbers of people in increasingly horrible ways, but that strangely enough it\'s expected will never be used. You tell someone about Russia restarting its nuclear weapons research program and people just shrug and go, meh, they do that.

But if it turns out science might be at some point to do something that, rather than being horrific and violent, is merely strange, people freak the fuck out. A bomb that can kill billions in a single moment is shrugged off as normal. But tell someone that someone might be growing sheep with human livers, and what\'s the response? Oh no! What a horrible perversion of nature! Why do we continue to let such horrible things happen! Never mind that this, you know, has the capacity to save lives or create useful technology on a huge scale. It\'s \"unnatural!\" Of course, so is fire and clothing and the internet. But for some reason those are okay and genetic engineering is not.\"

I can\'t say it better myself.

Seconded

 

[RedSevenBlue]

Originally posted by Swordwind

Originally posted by No Such Agency
Re stem cells:

Originally seen on Slashdot:
\"For fuck\'s sake. It\'s pretty much just agreed the world over that science will be constantly used to create new and horrible weapons that could kill increasingly large numbers of people in increasingly horrible ways, but that strangely enough it\'s expected will never be used. You tell someone about Russia restarting its nuclear weapons research program and people just shrug and go, meh, they do that.

But if it turns out science might be at some point to do something that, rather than being horrific and violent, is merely strange, people freak the fuck out. A bomb that can kill billions in a single moment is shrugged off as normal. But tell someone that someone might be growing sheep with human livers, and what\'s the response? Oh no! What a horrible perversion of nature! Why do we continue to let such horrible things happen! Never mind that this, you know, has the capacity to save lives or create useful technology on a huge scale. It\'s \"unnatural!\" Of course, so is fire and clothing and the internet. But for some reason those are okay and genetic engineering is not.\"

I can\'t say it better myself.

Seconded

That has my stamp of approval.

 

[Evil Dave]

Ah, but all weapons started out as peaceful science.
I personally think humanity as a whole isn\'t responsible enough, yet, to mess with genetics.
As for Government funding:
If the scientists are willing to do the work without their six figure salaries and the high wastage of funds they\'re used to, they can do it.
I work in the science field and have seen how a lot of these guys spend their grants.

 

[funnymouth]

Originally posted by Evil Dave
As for Government funding:
If the scientists are willing to do the work without their six figure salaries and the high wastage of funds they\'re used to, they can do it.
I work in the science field and have seen how a lot of these guys spend their grants.

lol, who are your funding agencies, id like to get on the 6 figure bandwagon. for now, low five figs will have to do.

a single laser guided weapon costs ~$150,000. at my current pay rate it would fund my research for 10 years.

war happens, and in any war civilian lives are lost and it\'s \"regrettable\" (ha! tell that to the 300 lebanese civ\'s that died last week). but then to turn around and say that is immoral to research life saving medicine because it involves a lump of cells that came from a human (literally: the icm or inner cell mass of an unfertalized egg - which is not, in itself, viable) is a disgusting inequality of moral values.

IMHO: its not about morality, in fact its quite the opposite, its about money. a shiny new plane is a better investment - a GI wouldnt be worth the cost of treatment.

 

[RedSevenBlue]

On the stem cell thing, look at us Americans, we\'re not really as smart as we think we are and that gets us in a shitload of trouble and the stem cell thing is another thing. Is a soldier immoral when he throws his life away to save his country? no. He isn\'t even thanked sometimes. That soldier is just like Jesus or a stem cell, he has the potential to save lives and guess what? an idiot or a mob of idiots is holding him back from saving innocent livees. That\'s my statement and I\'m catholic so booyah.