Hey Americans! and for the rest too I guess

[MarkusTay]

Originally posted by steelcult

Originally posted by MarkusTay
I At least we have a the first female Speaker of the House, that should make the conservative half of the country sick to their stomachs.

A woman who doesn\'t want to be barefoot and pregnant baking brownies for her girlscout troop? What is this country coming to?!

I kinda take umbrage at this one Shawn <snip>

lol
I say something and you get made at Shawn? Thats a good deal to me.

I used the term \'conservative\' because I thought it was vague enough not to offend. I originally had another term in mind, but decided I didn\'t want to offend certain other persons on this site.

I am part of a group, a group that I argue with more then anything else, that believes women REALLY DO belong in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, standing BEHIND their man and never standing in the spotlight themselves.

I have no problem with females in office, as long as they can handle the job. Qualifications should depend on an individuals merits, and to throw a good candidate out because you disagree with a single issue is something that I take UMBRAGE to.

Every church group that I deal with is against Hilary Clinton soley because she is pro-choice. She is also the #1 Socialized Health Care evangelist in the country. The woman tried to give away free health care when her husband was in office, and she was dragged over the coals. A gov\'t Health care plan would most likely save millions of lives in the long run, because doctors would be more likely to catch problems early. I\'ve heard stories of people who didn\'t take their children to the hospital when they had the sniffles, and later the child died of Pnuemonia.

In politics, sometimes you must choose the lesser of two evils, and I feel strongly about public health.

If this makes me unpopular to my peers, so be it., but whats the point of even bringing a child into this world if WE are not going to take care of it?

It is not our place to Judge individuals on their morals, for that I answer to a higher authority.

And as much as I am a Liberal Traditionalist (my own term, like it?), I was still nauseated by the Democrats trying to turn this into a one issue race. I want the candidate who is going to do the best possible job in the office he is trying for, and I don\'t give a rat\'s ass if he had an affair back in the summer of \'75! Unless he\'s a child molester, what he does in private is not my concern.

Sorry, didn\'t mean to turn this into a semi-rant, but politics always gets my blood boiling.

Since this is the CMON forums, let me just steer this back on the correct course...

***<Boobies>***

 

[hakoMike]

Originally posted by MarkusTay
I am part of a group, a group that I argue with more then anything else, that believes women REALLY DO belong in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, standing BEHIND their man and never standing in the spotlight themselves.
You\'re part of this group?

I have no problem with females in office, as long as they can handle the job.
The same goes for men, I assume

Every church group that I deal with is against Hilary Clinton soley because she is pro-choice. She is also the #1 Socialized Health Care evangelist in the country. The woman tried to give away free health care when her husband was in office, and she was dragged over the coals.
No, she tried to socialize health care. That means siezing money at gunpoint to pay for someone else\'s health care...(okay, strong language but not untrue.)
A gov\'t Health care plan would most likely save millions of lives in the long run, because doctors would be more likely to catch problems early. I\'ve heard stories of people who didn\'t take their children to the hospital when they had the sniffles, and later the child died of Pnuemonia.
The Commonwealth of Massachussetts has an interesting approach, combining state provided insurance with private providers. It allows them to negotiate prices but still allow private plans, and is saving money for the state.

If this makes me unpopular to my peers, so be it., but whats the point of even bringing a child into this world if WE are not going to take care of it?
I believe in benevolency, but where does our collective responsibility start/stop?

It is not our place to Judge individuals on their morals, for that I answer to a higher authority.
No, but we shape public policy based on moral judgement. State funded recreational heroin ... who are we to judge?

Since this is the CMON forums, let me just steer this back on the correct course...

***<Booobies>***
Someone else want to handle this one?

 

[funnymouth]

Originally posted by MarkusTay
And as much as I am a Liberal Traditionalist (my own term, like it?), I was still nauseated by the Democrats trying to turn this into a one issue race. I want the candidate who is going to do the best possible job in the office he is trying for, and I don\'t give a rat\'s ass if he had an affair back in the summer of \'75! Unless he\'s a child molester, what he does in private is not my concern.

philosophically i dont like that they tried to make it a one issue election.
practically its a great idea. they needed republican swing votes - and that is exactly what republican campaigning is - misdirection, absolutes, single issues. \"appologize to the troops sen kerry, for calling the prez an idiot; be afraid voters, terrorists are on the loose!\"

i voted for people, not slogans.

its fine for you to not care about an affair in \'75 - but the clinton sex \"scandal\" was beaten to death for YEARS. by comparison, misrepresentation of intelligence, illegal wire tapping, coesion/torture, boy sex chat, corruption, war profiteering, and lack of a coherent war plan havent gotten nearly enough coverage.

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by hakoMike
***<Booobies>***
Someone else want to handle this one?

I always want to handle boobies.

 

[MarkusTay]

Originally posted by hakoMike

Originally posted by MarkusTay
I am part of a group, a group that I argue with more then anything else, that believes women REALLY DO belong in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, standing BEHIND their man and never standing in the spotlight themselves.
You\'re part of this group?
Yes, it\'s called my church. lol

I have no problem with females in office, as long as they can handle the job.
The same goes for men, I assume I thought that went without saying

Every church group that I deal with is against Hilary Clinton soley because she is pro-choice. She is also the #1 Socialized Health Care evangelist in the country. The woman tried to give away free health care when her husband was in office, and she was dragged over the coals.
No, she tried to socialize health care. That means siezing money at gunpoint to pay for someone else\'s health care...(okay, strong language but not untrue.)
A gov\'t Health care plan would most likely save millions of lives in the long run, because doctors would be more likely to catch problems early. I\'ve heard stories of people who didn\'t take their children to the hospital when they had the sniffles, and later the child died of Pnuemonia.
The Commonwealth of Massachussetts has an interesting approach, combining state provided insurance with private providers. It allows them to negotiate prices but still allow private plans, and is saving money for the state.
Its easy to be against Socialized health Care when you can afford it. I\'ve been on both sides of this fence, and avoiding the doctor because you don\'t have the money isn\'t a good feeling

If this makes me unpopular to my peers, so be it., but whats the point of even bringing a child into this world if WE are not going to take care of it?
I believe in benevolency, but where does our collective responsibility start/stop?
Good Question

It is not our place to Judge individuals on their morals, for that I answer to a higher authority.
No, but we shape public policy based on moral judgement. State funded recreational heroin ... who are we to judge?
That\'s the hardest part of deciding who \'deserves\' help, a friend of mine gets a check every week because he is an alcholic, and my brother-in-law gets one because he is 600lbs. I on the other hand, qualify for free money do to my SEVERE asthma, but refuse it.

Since this is the CMON forums, let me just steer this back on the correct course...

***<Booobies>***
Someone else want to handle this one?
sorry, too many O\'s. I tend to make a joke when things get too serious, old defense mechanism cutting in,

Just drink it, laddie!

 

[funnymouth]

Originally posted by hakoMike

Originally posted by MarkusTay
Every church group that I deal with is against Hilary Clinton soley because she is pro-choice. She is also the #1 Socialized Health Care evangelist in the country. The woman tried to give away free health care when her husband was in office, and she was dragged over the coals.
No, she tried to socialize health care. That means siezing money at gunpoint to pay for someone else\'s health care...(okay, strong language but not untrue.)

yeah, thats what he said, \"socialize.\" why is that a dirty word anyhow? \"oh no! everyone can go to the hospital?! lordy, lordy! everyone knows that some people deserve medical treatment and others dont, because rich people are better human beings.\" i havent been to a dentist in 2 years, because my school doesnt give graduate student health care. i could bleed to death in a waiting room. but your right...i should buy insurance on my health salary of $700 a month for teaching two classes of college students (most of which, ironically, will be doctors).

A gov\'t Health care plan would most likely save millions of lives in the long run, because doctors would be more likely to catch problems early. I\'ve heard stories of people who didn\'t take their children to the hospital when they had the sniffles, and later the child died of Pnuemonia.
The Commonwealth of Massachussetts has an interesting approach, combining state provided insurance with private providers. It allows them to negotiate prices but still allow private plans, and is saving money for the state.
whatever - as long as i can get health care

If this makes me unpopular to my peers, so be it., but whats the point of even bringing a child into this world if WE are not going to take care of it?
I believe in benevolency, but where does our collective responsibility start/stop?
yeah! sick babies should stop bitching and get a job to pay for insurance!

It is not our place to Judge individuals on their morals, for that I answer to a higher authority.
No, but we shape public policy based on moral judgement. State funded recreational heroin ... who are we to judge?
that is a perposterous suggestion. but to humor you: is there anything wrong with being high/drunk if you dont otherwise effect anyone else? i dont know - out of my league - but i do know why we dont state fund (or legalize) it - because it would affect other people - it would be an economic drain, spread disease, and otherwise adversely affect society. alchohol and cigaretts do. ill illegaly smoke my pot in private thank you very much, and be a \"bad\" person for it

Since this is the CMON forums, let me just steer this back on the correct course...

***<Booobies>***
Someone else want to handle this one?
i was disappointed when i couldnt see them too, so....

 

[MarkusTay]

Sorry for the DP

Originally posted by funnymouth

Originally posted by MarkusTay
And as much as I am a Liberal Traditionalist (my own term, like it?), I was still nauseated by the Democrats trying to turn this into a one issue race. I want the candidate who is going to do the best possible job in the office he is trying for, and I don\'t give a rat\'s ass if he had an affair back in the summer of \'75! Unless he\'s a child molester, what he does in private is not my concern.

philosophically i dont like that they tried to make it a one issue election.
practically its a great idea. they needed republican swing votes - and that is exactly what republican campaigning is - misdirection, absolutes, single issues. \"appologize to the troops sen kerry, for calling the prez an idiot; be afraid voters, terrorists are on the loose!\"

I voted for people, not slogans.Agree with you on all points

its fine for you to not care about an affair in \'75 - but the clinton sex \"scandal\" was beaten to death for YEARS. by comparison, misrepresentation of intelligence, illegal wire tapping, coesion/torture, boy sex chat, corruption, war profiteering, and lack of a cohetrent war plan havent gotten nearly enough coverage.

The guy who got caught soliciting a 13 yr old boy killed himself AFTER he got arrested, and the war profiteering is a HUGE issue, because it deals with up-front profits made by military suppliers, and under-the-table handshake deals made regarding oil rights and rebuilding.

The other stuff really doesn\'t matter in the big picture, except to cast the candidate in a disparraging light. All parties and candidates having been doing that since the dawn of time, ever since Og told the rest of the tribe about Boga\'s unhealthy relationship with a whooly mamoth.

I thought \"Shoot everyone wearing a turban\" was a cohesive plan?

Locally, Alan Hevesi won the election for State Comptroller, despite a recent scandal that his state paid limo driver drove his handicapped wife around on several occasions. He admitted his mistake and apologized, and fortunately NYers were able to look past it and not vote for his relatively unknown and under-qualified opponent. I\'m glad to know some people still look past the ads and vote based on qualifications.

Besides, if thats the ONLY thing the opposition could get on him then that was pretty lame. I think the plan backfired on them. lol

 

[hakoMike]

I can\'t say I\'m in the \"sick babies should get a job\" camp, but I think there\'s a lot more to a comprehensive health care strategy than closing your eyes, plugging your ears, and repeating \"fix it fix it fix it fix it\" until the problem goes away. It may well be (perish the thought) that there are better solutions than socializing the entire system. MA was my case in point. At $700/month wages for an adult, you are well below the poverty line and should be eligible for public assistance. Your state likely has a medicaid program for which you would be eligible. Here in Michigan the criteria are fairly loose for assistance, insomuch as a friend of ours receives roughly what you make + food stamps + state sponsored health benefits + highly subsidized housing ($20/month apartment, lower utility bills) because she is a single mom who wants to stay home with her child and not work.

And in terms of the subsidized heroin, it was intended to be preposterous. The point was that we must pass judgement to be a nation of laws. We either limit behavior or financially subsidize it, and either requires a judgement of value.

Whoops, training it over and I\'m being kicked out. Bye!

 

[WeR138]

I think what some on this post are trying to point out is that there would be alot less abuse of benevolence if people had to rely on the kindness of the individual versus the kindness of the government. After all, taking my wallet from me at gunpoint and giving it to another, however needy, does not a charitable act make. I don\'t understand how some people can in one breath bemoan how corrupt the government is can turn around and in the next breath say they are the best suited for taking care of those in need.

 

[Shawn R. L.]

Originally posted by steelcult

Originally posted by MarkusTay
I At least we have a the first female Speaker of the House, that should make the conservative half of the country sick to their stomachs.

A woman who doesn\'t want to be barefoot and pregnant baking brownies for her girlscout troop? What is this country coming to?!
[

I kinda take umbrage at this one Shawn - I consider my self a conservative (Not a NeoCon or any of that crap(and I have been told by several of my \"Liberal\" friends that politically I\'m somewhere to the right of Ghengis Khan)) and have no problem with the entire concept of a female speaker of the house, or for that matter a female president or a female in any other leadership role in America or any other nation for that matter.

Now having said that, I don\'t feel that Pelosi is the best candidate for the job but it should be an interesting next few years.

The one thing about our form of Republic Mobocracy is that the voters and non voters both may not get what they want, but sometimes do get what they do deserve.

Ummmmmm...... I made no comment about women in government.......???

 

[funnymouth]

@hako

well, $700 isnt the whole story, i was bitching for effect...lol
i have a second job that pays for grad school - and the teaching pays the bills. basically im not eligable for anything. if it came down to it, it would be college (and BOTH of my jobs), or a cast. regardless, im a shifty bastard and i am quite capeable of keeping my teeth in my head. i dont accept charity in the form of handouts, its not my style.
the world is vicious and i know it.
i dont know if you know what its like to live below the p-line, but i do. i was raised by a single mom; i was homeless the day i graduated high school. the fact of the matter is, services suck ass. really. sounds all fancy and shit, but its not.
seems like the people who actually need the help dont get it - the LEGIT homeless, little kids, sick old people that need medicine, people with a run of bad luck
and the freeloaders and suits get all the money.
im sure socializing the system wouldnt work - we\'re way to corrupt (morally and literally), but hoping it will fix itself doesnt work, like you said. it is an issue that needs attention though, and PRETENDING that its a non issue gets us no where.

 

[Brimshack]

I think he was actually quoting MarcusTay.

 

[EArkham]

Frickin\' sick babies! Always coughing and sneezing and crapping all over the place and then they expect to be fed some kind of frickin\' \"baby food\" so they can frickin\' cough and sneeze and crap some more and do they work and get a job and contribute? NO.

Frickin\' sick babies.

-Kep

 

[philologus]

Originally posted by WeR138
I think what some on this post are trying to point out is that there would be alot less abuse of benevolence if people had to rely on the kindness of the individual versus the kindness of the government. After all, taking my wallet from me at gunpoint and giving it to another, however needy, does not a charitable act make. I don\'t understand how some people can in one breath bemoan how corrupt the government is can turn around and in the next breath say they are the best suited for taking care of those in need.

Well said.

 

[Sand Rat]

You are correct Shawn and I will fix the original post - its what happens when CRS sets in.


[size=-1]CRS = cant remember shyte[/size]

 

[MarkusTay]

Originally posted by MarkusTay

Originally posted by steelcult

Originally posted by MarkusTay
I At least we have a the first female Speaker of the House, that should make the conservative half of the country sick to their stomachs.

A woman who doesn\'t want to be barefoot and pregnant baking brownies for her girlscout troop? What is this country coming to?!

I kinda take umbrage at this one Shawn <snip>

lol
I say something and you get made at Shawn? Thats a good deal to me.

I\'m only repeating this to point out I\'ve already redirected the heat back to me earlier. Sorry Shawn, don\'t know how people get us mixed up.

I don\'t have the solution, thats why those Gov\'t think tankers get paid the big bucks. Unless of course their getting paid the big bucks because they\'re someone\'s cousin.

There are plenty of countries with Socialized medicine, as well as Socialized public transportation, utilities, etc... and they seem to have a well working plan, so why can\'t we just \'download\' their plan? Or would the RIAA come down on that as well?

We must all remember there is a fine line between morality and forcing your views on others, especially in a country that was founded on the principle of seperation of church and state.

I think a person who refuses a life saving operation on religious grounds is an idiot, but I WILL defend their right to make that decision.

 

[Sand Rat]

Yeah, again sorry bout that - went back and corrected that one.

 

[Trevor]

That means siezing money at gunpoint to pay for someone else\'s health care...(okay, strong language but not untrue.)

This really annoys the hell out of me.

Governments the world over sieze money at gunpoint to waste on utter crap for other people or to kill foreigners or even their own people.

I have no choice but to pay taxes for things I have never and will never use, not to mention things that I completely disagree with (like bombs).

There are two things I think a socially responsible society should provide for everyone: health care and education. I want to opt out of the armed forces, not healthcare, why can\'t I do that? Don\'t we live in a democracy?

This crap, \'I want to pay my own way\' is spurious bullshit, you end up getting medical insurance don\'t you? How many of you pay for exactly whjat you use? None I bet. Many of you are, wait for it... PAYING FOR OTHER PEOPLES HEALTHCARE... omg, wow. Others of you who are sickly are sponging off other peoples generosity.

Its like the idiot politicians in Oz saying that students should only pay for what they use with their VSU, excellent, then you\'ll let me opt out of income tax and GST and let me pay for what I use? No? Why not? Oh coz its all political bullshit.

This rant was brought to you by a pissed off at politicians the world over Trevor.

 

[Sand Rat]

Originally posted by MarkusTay
There are plenty of countries with Socialized medicine, as well as Socialized public transportation, utilities, etc... and they seem to have a well working plan, so why can\'t we just \'download\' their plan? Or would the RIAA come down on that as well?

We must all remember there is a fine line between morality and forcing your views on others, especially in a country that was founded on the principle of seperation of church and state.

I think a person who refuses a life saving operation on religious grounds is an idiot, but I WILL defend their right to make that decision.

Markus -

Personally I think we need a combination system - one that allows those in need access to health care, but also requires those that can afford health care to pay for it.

But, the issue of insuring that those on the free plan get good coverage remains -

Yes there are nations that do have good medical plans - Germany leaps to the forefront of what I have heard - but they also have issues there with raising the tax revenue to cover all the plans all the time from what I have been able to read online.

 

[Lucifeil]

I really hope they do something about the healthcare issue soon. It\'s damn near impossible for me to get affordable health insurance because I have \"anxiety\" problems. According to Anthem, because of this, I am uninsureable with their usual plans. Their alternative is for me to pay $300 a month, and still pay 40% of all expenses. I work at Speedway and go to college... in other words, I don\'t have much.

I can only hope that I do not get severly sick or that Canada will accept me as a citizen.

The only thing I can think of is that this is the US governments form of population control. Sorry if this makes anyone mad as I am really not trying for that but, when a Doctor won\'t even see you and you can\'t get into a clinic, it starts to bother you.