Hmm... I can think of extremism, in different forms, for all the major religions I know about (except maybe Buddhism, I can\'t think of any examples of Buddhist extremists of the top of my head). I think this is one of my main problems with religion, it only takes a few nutcases to spoil something which could be great for everybody.
How extreme is Islamic extremism?
- Thread starter treide
- Start date
Legacy Account
Active member
Buddhist extremists exist Bill, believe it or not.
Look up Sinhalan Buddhist extremeists. They\'re a radicalised group who are using violence against Christian institutions and methodology in Sri Lanka.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/apr2004/jhu-a01.shtml
Proof that, whatever the text and teachings tell you, human nature will eventually run its course.
Look up Sinhalan Buddhist extremeists. They\'re a radicalised group who are using violence against Christian institutions and methodology in Sri Lanka.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/apr2004/jhu-a01.shtml
Proof that, whatever the text and teachings tell you, human nature will eventually run its course.
Torn blue sky
New member
See...the thing about religion is it\'s open to all kinds of interpretation. Personally I think its all bollocks, but everyone needs something to believe in, whatever that might be.
And sadly to say, religion has (and still is) being used as a tool and excuse to commit atrocities.
Simple as...
And sadly to say, religion has (and still is) being used as a tool and excuse to commit atrocities.
Simple as...
Human nature is proving time and time again that we are a brutal and intolerant race.
We don\'t have to look back too far to see what virulent rhetoric applied against a backdrop of crushing poverty, fear and despair can cause, and all too easily achieve. Mob rule, the lynch mob mentality and the persecution of people who think differently from one person’s perspective is a common theme throughout human history.
Consider these few examples from memory:
Akhenaten’s crushing of the priesthood and followers of the previous Egyptian Pantheon and then the subsequent retaliation against the followers of Amun-Ra.
The Massacre of Jews at Clifford’s tower in York.
The Catholics Church’s persecution of, and eventual massacre of, Cathars in Southern France.
Persecution of Jews during “The Black Death” which culminated in massacres in Strasbourg
The French persecution of the Huguenots.
The Salem Witch trials, fuelled by hysteria.
The Third Reich.
Un-American Activites Committee of the late 40 & 50’s (The McCarthy era)
Apartheid.
And to be honest the Lynch Mob mentality has had it’s echoes on Coolminiornot. How many threads about image theft and the theft of the articles written here have had calls, albeit perhaps tongue in cheek, for people to be strung up, or shouts of “Off with their Goolies”?
Trying to define what consitutes the Extremists in any ethnic, religious, nationalistic or cultural group is like trying to grasp straws. No one nation or culture, religious or secular is without elements that play on the fears, prejudices and resentment of people.
It exists in England in the British National Party; it was seen in Northern Ireland in the bitter conflict between Catholic & Protestant, it existed during the Struggle for Equal Rights in America and we saw it in the former Yugoslavian states with \'Ethnic Cleansing\'.
Asking “How Extreme is Islamic Extremism?” can only be answered by “How Extreme is Humankind?”
Torn blue sky
New member
Iiiiii dunno
After I watched the matrix I don\'t know WHAT to believe anymore...
After I watched the matrix I don\'t know WHAT to believe anymore...
philologus
Subgenius
A lot of good points in your post DR. I had to address this one though. The HOUSE Un-American Activities Committee had nothing to do with SENATOR McCarthy. A lot of people in the US and elsewhere have been snowed into thinking that McCarthy ran the show in bringing a bunch of actors/actresses before Congress. That was HUAC not McCarthy. McCarthy was after Communists working in the State Department and elsewhere in govt. positions that would give them access to secrets at a time when the USSR was our biggest threat. After the fall of the USSR we learned that McCarthy did indeed ID paid assets in high places in Washington.
Phil0lgus: Yes. I\'m personally quite aware of the distiction between the HUAC and Joe McCarthy. However not all people outside of the USA will be, and to most of us the period is still refered to as the McCarthy Era, which is why I referred to it as such in Brackets.
I\'m surpised to read what you said, which is seeming to vindicate McCarthy as, from what I\'ve read, he made many unsubstanciated statements purporting to have knowledge of Soviet involvements.
As far as I have been able to find out most of his claims still have not been substanciated.
philologus
Subgenius
I assumed your use of the phrase McCarthy era was just for general identification purposes, but I found it odd that it would be included in a list of atrocities for 2 reasons:
HUAC made life difficult for a few hollywood types who then moved to Europe and lived well the remainder of their lives. Secondly,
McCarthy was after actual spies in govt. Not an atrocity for a nation state to uncover enemies within the govt., put them on trial and convict them.
As far as the bit about his claims: The Venona project (the most successful intelligence gathering operation in US history) showed that these individuals, most notably, in the State Dept. made intel hand-offs to Soviet agents. After the fall of the USSR we were given access to former KGB and NKVB archives which revealed that Alger Hiss et. al. were paid assets of the USSR. You can view scans of the documents at the CIA website under the Freedom of information act of 1996. Link to Venona info:
CIA LINK
This pretty much sums it up for me. People like to blame religion for extremism, but it\'s really humanity using religion as a tool for their more evil impulses. It always bugs me, too, when people use this as a reason why religion itself is bad. Yes, horrible things have been done in the name of god. That doesn\'t mean it was god doing it; more like misguided people using god as an excuse. If that\'s a reason that we should ban all religion, than what about other \"excuses\"? Extremist ecology groups have done some horrible things. Should we ban all ecology-conscious groups? People on the far end of the animal rights movement have done some absolutely atrocious things. Should we ban all animal rights groups? Perhaps we could solve the problem by getting rid of all charismatic leaders? Oops! There goes Martin Luther King and Desmund Tutu (both, BTW, also religious leaders) It\'s not really the leaders that scare me; it\'s the unquestioning \"True Believers\" that scare me - whatever it is they believe in....
Well, I guess I\'ve rambled my way right out of my momentum so I guess... That is all.
farseerlum
New member
heh. i did say buddist extremeist depended on geography! lol
i found it hard to belive at first also. i think it really re-inforces the differences in people even in the same religion.
i found it hard to belive at first also. i think it really re-inforces the differences in people even in the same religion.
Interesting discussion (and quite civil, I must say).
If social unrest and poverty are catalysts for people accepting religious extremism, what makes radical Islam more appealing than extreme forms of other religions to these individuals?
One interesting argument I have heard about religious extremism is that it is often borne out of theocracy. If your political and religious leaders are the same, and all national policies are crafted based upon religious beliefs, it is not surprising that execution of such policies is conducted with religious fervor. You can\'t disagree with your goverment, because your government is represented by \"Holy Men\" who commune with the god you believe in. Perhaps countries who practice separation of church and state may be less susceptible to this phenomen?
If social unrest and poverty are catalysts for people accepting religious extremism, what makes radical Islam more appealing than extreme forms of other religions to these individuals?
One interesting argument I have heard about religious extremism is that it is often borne out of theocracy. If your political and religious leaders are the same, and all national policies are crafted based upon religious beliefs, it is not surprising that execution of such policies is conducted with religious fervor. You can\'t disagree with your goverment, because your government is represented by \"Holy Men\" who commune with the god you believe in. Perhaps countries who practice separation of church and state may be less susceptible to this phenomen?
One thing I don\'t really understand is the Jewish connection to this.
Why do Muslims seem to loathe the Jew?
I can understand why Palastinians have issues...they got to watch while their homelands were taken away to form Israel.
And what of Hitler and the extermination of the Jews in WW2? Why the hatred there? Were the Jews completely innocent, or is there some underlying things that cause this?
I\'m not saying to blame the victim, but have they been blameless all this time?
Why do Muslims seem to loathe the Jew?
I can understand why Palastinians have issues...they got to watch while their homelands were taken away to form Israel.
And what of Hitler and the extermination of the Jews in WW2? Why the hatred there? Were the Jews completely innocent, or is there some underlying things that cause this?
I\'m not saying to blame the victim, but have they been blameless all this time?
Rigged4Mini
New member
The hardcorest extremists of the extremist community. Trekkies.
@treide
I wouldn\'t go as far as saying that theocracy inevitably leads to radicalism (not sure that\'s what you\'re saying either...), but when you do have a radical leadership that is also connected, or identical to, the religious leadership it will become a serious matter (like in Iran).
@supervike
I\'d say the Islamic hostility against the jews have a lot to do with Israel, but it also has a pre-history. During the 1800s and early 1900s many jews came to Palestine, which was under British rule then, and claimed land there. And don\'t forget that there are holy places for the muslims in Palestine as well as holy jewish places.
When it comes to the European hostility against jews I think it has a lot to do with the belief that the jews were responsible for the death of Jesus. Something that some radical Christians still believe *ahurrmm*Mel Gibson*ahrrrmmmhhh*.
I wouldn\'t go as far as saying that theocracy inevitably leads to radicalism (not sure that\'s what you\'re saying either...), but when you do have a radical leadership that is also connected, or identical to, the religious leadership it will become a serious matter (like in Iran).
@supervike
I\'d say the Islamic hostility against the jews have a lot to do with Israel, but it also has a pre-history. During the 1800s and early 1900s many jews came to Palestine, which was under British rule then, and claimed land there. And don\'t forget that there are holy places for the muslims in Palestine as well as holy jewish places.
When it comes to the European hostility against jews I think it has a lot to do with the belief that the jews were responsible for the death of Jesus. Something that some radical Christians still believe *ahurrmm*Mel Gibson*ahrrrmmmhhh*.
johnboyjjb
Active member
In parts of Africa, when an extremist asks you to convert, it is usually at the end of a gun. For those who aren\'t strong in any faith, the decision is pretty simple. When you convert, then you are issued a gun. With that firearm you now have the ability to take anything you want from those without guns. Money, women, and food are frequently liberated. Children are \"recruited\" young and indoctrinated with the belief that they are right. Failing proper indoctrination, they still have the choice of putting down the gun and starving or accepting rations from the \"lord\'s army\".
