Life sized 1:1 figure kits.

[Friar]

Originally posted by Avelorn
If you want to start a discussion don\'t use a pea-gun. Don\'t be nuanced. It\'s up to the discussion to make it nuanced later...

I don\'t really understand this if ya wouldn\'t mind helpin a poor sob out with an explanation.


After reading five or six more interviews with him and reading parts of his book in pdf, that while I may not particularly care for his stuff or get most of it (giant babies climping a ty tower that was built by commies but instead of faces they have air conditioning ducts or vents or some such, I just don\'t have a clue wtf this is supposed to be about) I would actually say he isn\'t someone who is trying to be artsy fartsy, the one thing he said several times was \"I don\'t want to be referred to as an artist, just a good sculptor\" or something to that effect. I didn\'t find anything about the intent behind the dead raped woman kit, just an overviewing comment on the whole series of 1:1 kits, basic consumer cultures fascination with tons of plastic items gettig pumped out of factories and so on.

Art reflects life (and life sometimes sucks)

I totally agree, and I don\'t think art should sugar coat horrors that exist in this world. I do believe that those who have suffered crimes such as rape deserve more respect then what is portrayed here. mmmm basically I\'ve been in a position to see what this kind of violence can do to someone, and having cared about them deeply and seeing how the rest of their life was turned into a nightmarish struggle and knowing that if she had walked thru that gallery and come to that piece it would have caused an immense amount of pain and dredged up memories of events that caused her life to be wasted instead of enjoyed and lived. I just don\'t think art should do that to anyone, perhaps if this was an exhibition by artists to raise awareness of victims of violent crime or raise funds for counseling victims of abuse I could see it\'s place and purpose but in the context that I see it in, the only thing I can make out is that it is used as a symbol for something (the rape of the planet, or economies I don\'t know) I just don\'t think it\'s right.
I hope this part made sense, I\'m having a bit of time talking and remembering this myself so I\'m goin to stop here.

 

[matty1001]

Originally posted by Friar
...just an overviewing comment on the whole series of 1:1 kits, basic consumer cultures fascination with tons of plastic items gettig pumped out of factories and so on.

You got a link?
Wouldn\'t mind reading that.

 

[Thunderhawker]

--Deep thoughts before I leave for work today

I do believe that those who have suffered crimes such as rape deserve more respect then what is portrayed here.

I agree with the spirit of that, but the thing to remember here is art is created by human beings, and as such is susceptible to human flaws and failings. Maybe this guy\'s moral compass is off kilter. Or maybe it simply doesn\'t mean to him what it means to you or to others (I\'d put my money on that one). Or, just maybe, he said \"I am going to take my trusty remote control, flip through the channels, and the first X number of things I see I will sculpt.\" Our luck, he ended up with \"Hostel\".

 

[Sand Rat]

Originally posted by sg2009
That dead raped women and jesus are a bit disturbing :|~ that navy ship is awsome what scale would that be ???

sam

If I remember its either 1/9th or 1/10 scale.

As for the ongoing discussion of the merits of his works, to me its more art than the guy who paints with his ass.

 

[mattrock]

Originally posted by Thunderhawker
--Deep thoughts before I leave for work today

I do believe that those who have suffered crimes such as rape deserve more respect then what is portrayed here.

I agree with the spirit of that, but the thing to remember here is art is created by human beings, and as such is susceptible to human flaws and failings. Maybe this guy\'s moral compass is off kilter. Or maybe it simply doesn\'t mean to him what it means to you or to others (I\'d put my money on that one). Or, just maybe, he said \"I am going to take my trusty remote control, flip through the channels, and the first X number of things I see I will sculpt.\" Our luck, he ended up with \"Hostel\".

I don\'t think that friar and I have been debating his motivations much (besides noting that they seem a bit foreign to us). What we are questioning is the propriety. I\'m not even going to say that in this case it\'s not art because unlike the piss christ and others, at least this one took some talent and ability.

Perhaps his moral compass is a bit off. Perhaps he sculpted the first thing he saw. That doesn\'t make it right. It would seem to me that if his purpose is indeed to try to raise awareness of our \'throwaway\' culture and show our callousedness (sp?) toward things as heinous as rape, he is acting in a self-defeating way. The more this kind of thing is praised and lauded as \"thoughtful\", the more it contributes to our desensitization to such things. In the short term it gets our attention, in the long term it dulls us to these realities.

Regardless, from what I\'ve read from the guy, I\'m not convinced that awareness was his motive anyway. I\'m not saying I know his motive...I\'m simply saying that good or bad motives the work is distasteful and disrespectful. It deserves no praise in my opinion.

 

[Friar]

Originally posted by matty1001

Originally posted by Friar
...just an overviewing comment on the whole series of 1:1 kits, basic consumer cultures fascination with tons of plastic items gettig pumped out of factories and so on.

You got a link?
Wouldn\'t mind reading that.

sure took a bit to remember where but it\'s on page 37 of the pdf of his book Link about half way down is the link to download the book, the link looks like the michael jackson\'s thriller album but with david cerny instead.

As for this guy the more I read on him the more I like him, as I said I don\'t really understand most of his art (babies climbing a tower a car with legs so on) but my brain isn\'t mmmm geared more modern art but I will say this fellows stuff is certainly art. and my only issue is how I percieve that one piece but due more to personal reasons then not.

All honesty if he had a showing close by I would go.

 

[Mr.S.Marbo]

I am curious about what people who thought the dead woman sculpture unpleasant and disrespectful think about other forms of media that are often far far more graphic that show violence and death.

For example do you find legal age 18 restricted films that feature death and violence and other unpleasant things to be in bad taste? Would you like them banned? Often these films especially horror ones have no meaning to them other than to try and shock.

Lots of people like to watch the fake suffering and death of people in films - lets be honest for their entertainment. They would be horrified and sick to witness this in real life - the difference is that they know the film or the art or whatever is not an actual violent event. Do you think these people should stop getting entertainment from scenes of violence where no one is harmed?

Where would you draw the line in terms of what is acceptable or not in situations where no one in reality is harmed but images / sculpture / whatever depict harm? Why is \"fake violence\" with a message OK and fake violence for entertainment bad (or is it?). Just curious.

As an aside I think it would be pretty cool to do a 1:1 model. What do you think blending / shading etc.. would be like and how hard would it be?

 

[veggiemanuk]

Originally posted by Mr.S.Marbo
As an aside I think it would be pretty cool to do a 1:1 model. What do you think blending / shading etc.. would be like and how hard would it be?

No need to blend or shade, @1:1 this becomes pointles as there would be natural shadows and hence automatic blending.

 

[matty1001]

Originally posted by Friar

sure took a bit to remember where but it\'s on page 37 of the pdf of his book Link about half way down is the link to download the book, the link looks like the michael jackson\'s thriller album but with david cerny instead.

Cheers, this line is great, really sums it up for me:
\"Mysterious machines in toy factories are ejaculating hot
plastic into casts, creating form, like the sperm of God.\"

 

[Theomar Pius]

Originally posted by sg2009
That dead raped women and jesus are a bit disturbing :|~ that navy ship is awsome what scale would that be ???

sam

1/10th, aka huge.

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by veggiemanuk

Originally posted by Mr.S.Marbo
As an aside I think it would be pretty cool to do a 1:1 model. What do you think blending / shading etc.. would be like and how hard would it be?

No need to blend or shade, @1:1 this becomes pointles as there would be natural shadows and hence automatic blending.

Yes, you wouldn\'t need shading and highlighting... but you would need to do a lot of other things that you can ignore working in small scales like we do. If you\'ve seen the extra material on the LOTR films you can see how the make-up artists paint life-size sculptures of people. It\'s definitely not just one colour involved!

 

[Friar]

Originally posted by Mr.S.Marbo
I am curious about what people who thought the dead woman sculpture unpleasant and disrespectful think about other forms of media that are often far far more graphic that show violence and death.

For example do you find legal age 18 restricted films that feature death and violence and other unpleasant things to be in bad taste? Would you like them banned? Often these films especially horror ones have no meaning to them other than to try and shock.

Lots of people like to watch the fake suffering and death of people in films - lets be honest for their entertainment. They would be horrified and sick to witness this in real life - the difference is that they know the film or the art or whatever is not an actual violent event. Do you think these people should stop getting entertainment from scenes of violence where no one is harmed?

Where would you draw the line in terms of what is acceptable or not in situations where no one in reality is harmed but images / sculpture / whatever depict harm? Why is \"fake violence\" with a message OK and fake violence for entertainment bad (or is it?). Just curious.

As an aside I think it would be pretty cool to do a 1:1 model. What do you think blending / shading etc.. would be like and how hard would it be?

Personally I wouldn\'t want art like this banned or censored as I truly believe in free speach, as for as movies showing fictional displays of murder, rape, and other such events I feel the same I don\'t watch them as my choice but to ban them would be worse for all, tho I will say movies like devil\'s rejects and such are the scummy pimpley mass on the ass of culture and however much I feel they are in bad taste I still say no to censorship. I do feel that people who make media and art have a responsibility to raise the bar and expectations and increase the quality of what is produced rather then lower it, but thats a personal opinion. For instance to use my previous example of the devil\'s rejects as one that lowers the bar and is pointless gorey filth for the sake of being gorey, while say schindler\'s list as a movie which in the end probally had 100 times more death in it but used to convey a point about wrongs and rights raises the bar, and while my mind can\'t caugh one up even a movie with fictional events and suffering if used in a way to promote a message of worth can most definatly raise the bar.

As for media that show real events of suffering, news should never be censored and while at times can be horrid for the subject can spark a global response that can end such events, for example the naked girl napalmed in vietnam that picture I believe and hope did alot to bring awareness not just of what was happening there but of what war is and I believe that without those images the citizens here in the US would have had an almost impossible time bringing that war to a close. I also feel that images such as those as long as not forgotten can make it harder for countries to go to war. Tho the current war in Iraq shows not always.

As far as movies showing the dispicable, such as faces of death, firstly totally in bad taste and morally wrong imo but as long as the footage is legal then I would still say no to censorship. Snuff films obviously should be a criminal offense.

lol that should cover my opinions on that Marbo


And Matty I somehow knew you\'d love that line, funny enough I gave my lil blurb just so I didn\'t have to say that lol

All in all that book is fairly interesting and gives good insight into his work.

Edit: jeebus just saw how long this one was, I keep this up I\'ll need to get my posts bound and published

 

[mattrock]

Originally posted by Mr.S.Marbo
I am curious about what people who thought the dead woman sculpture unpleasant and disrespectful think about other forms of media that are often far far more graphic that show violence and death.

For example do you find legal age 18 restricted films that feature death and violence and other unpleasant things to be in bad taste? Would you like them banned? Often these films especially horror ones have no meaning to them other than to try and shock.

Lots of people like to watch the fake suffering and death of people in films - lets be honest for their entertainment. They would be horrified and sick to witness this in real life - the difference is that they know the film or the art or whatever is not an actual violent event. Do you think these people should stop getting entertainment from scenes of violence where no one is harmed?

Where would you draw the line in terms of what is acceptable or not in situations where no one in reality is harmed but images / sculpture / whatever depict harm? Why is \"fake violence\" with a message OK and fake violence for entertainment bad (or is it?). Just curious.

As an aside I think it would be pretty cool to do a 1:1 model. What do you think blending / shading etc.. would be like and how hard would it be?

It\'s not necessarily the depiction that bothers me...it\'s the focus. Let me clarify:

There are movies that involve death and violence (indeed, most movies do) that I will watch and do so willingly, assuming the focus of the plot is elsewhere and these violent elements are used to move the plot along or create a tension in an otherwise deeper story.

There are other movies that are violent for violence\'s sake. (See: pretty much anything by Quentin Terrantino (sp?)) That I think are tripe and refuse to waste my time on. These movies often make the violence the end rather than the means and for that I feel it is unnecessary. I feel the same way about all the other stuff too: sex, profanity, etc. If it\'s not necessary or doesn\'t really add anything to a deeper line, then I\'d just as soon not have to see it.

There are movies and TV shows where sex, violence, and profanity are necessary for the sake of realism (I love the Sopranos for instance and it\'s full of it) because the story simply wouldn\'t be believable otherwise. Imagine Tony Soprano exclaiming about a \"load of freakin\' poo!!!\". Just wouldn\'t work.

I didn\'t call for censorship of the dead raped lady, nor have I ever called for censorship of any of the stuff I find objectionable. I will say though that it is a dissappointing statement about society that piss in a jar with a crucifix in it is not only considered art, but award winning art. As I\'ve said before, it\'s absurd.

So let me address all your questions:

Would I find them objectionable and in bad taste: Yes

Would I want them banned: No

When the obvious intent is simply to shock and there is no other meaning: I\'ll pass

Do I think people should stop getting entertainment from violence: No

...But from violence for the sake of violence: Yes, not that I\'m going to tell them to, but I simply cannot identify with this frame of mind.

Where would I draw the line: Well, I think up to this point I\'ve been clear that I draw the line at the contribution violence makes to a bigger picture. Violence without purpose is useless in my opinion and thus distasteful. That said, if that\'s your bag, knock yourself out. I never even said that the piss christ wouldn\'t entertain someone I just said it\'s not art. The dead raped lady is art. But it\'s the kind that makes me shake my head in realization of the fact.

...that concludes this rant from your friendly neighborhood dogmatic bigot. :innocent:

 

[Jike Ichi]

Wasn\'t online this weekend. Quit an interesting discussion I have missed here.

I found something that could be the perfect T-shirt for this artist:

The photo is from american photographer Dan Monick

linky

 

[MPJ]

I know I\'m chiming in way late with this response but at least someone else brought it to the forefront so I\'m not digging up totally old news...

Sorry Matty but I think your bit about culture and art and such is looking a little to deeply into the \'artist\', making a model of a dead raped woman is still sick and threw me off any interest in looking at anything the \'artist\' has to say or show. And I don\'t typically offend easily.