Miniature Mentor Painting DVD( dont buy)

[atacam]

Just thought I would let people know. I have seeked legal advice as this company have completely ignored my emails.

I have asked them to honour the original offer, they advertised which i paid for and they have refused. This is a breach of contract, so I want to know if anyone knows an address for this company, as they should not be allowed to rip people off. Now I know people are saying it\'s only $10 or so, but it\'s the principle.

So can anyone help me, point in the right direction or something?

Thanks

atacam.

 

[arogers907]

Huh... I bought the first one on DVD and loved it so much I subscribed for the service. The Advanced Tutorial One was really cool and I\'ve been checking their site daily in anticipation of the Metallics one that is supposed to come out in April (runnin\' out of days, MM folks!!!).

I don\'t know how exactly they \'screwed\' you, but I think they have a great product. I had questions early on \'cause I\'m on a Mac and their FAQ didn\'t address whether or not the download service would work for me. They responded pretty quickly. /shrug

Anyway... good luck with your problems, though. Just thought I\'d throw out my experience. It seems quite different from yours.

-Andy

 

[Queen of Credits]

Washer/Dryer Wars

Whenever a client (or prospective client) is disputing something over the \'principle\' of a matter, my experience is that the issue is almost never about the money. It\'s about feeling disappointed or taken advantage of. At this point, even if you got the $10 back, you\'d still be mad over the event. That\'s because getting $10 won\'t make you \"whole\" (that\'s a legal term of art). Ten dollars isn\'t enough money to compensate you for the larger issue: feeling like you got ripped off. (which may or may not have actually happened.)

If the amount in dispute is only $10 (or even $25), even if you place no value on your own time expenditure, you may wish to factor in the value to yourself of the emotional and mental energy you are investing in the conflict.

I always encourage clients to accept the fact that life\'s simply going to have moments that aren\'t fair, but to their battles and put things into perspective. It does not make sense to spend $500 to fight over something worth $50 (even if you win); $1500 in atty fees for a day at court to bicker over \'who gets the blue china\'; a $35 phone call from your lawyer to the other spouse\'s lawyer about the fact the other person agreed to pay--but didn\'t-- the $17.23 grooming bill for FiFi the family poodle.

It may be a misunderstanding (or maybe not). But if the company does not want to make nice with the customer over $10 in the interests of future good will, just move on.

Giving yourself an ulcer over $10, is not a good alternative to getting a refund either.

Peace,
Kathryn

 

[Legacy Account]

Slash their tyres...



On a serious note, why do people waste their cash on these things? Plenty of free tutes out there (here!!) and some very nice books I\'d much rather own. There\'s no \'silver bullet\' for painting better. It\'s down to practice.

 

[False Keraptis]

Heed the words of Queen of Credits, for the sake of men yet unborn!

Seriously, that\'s very wise and insightful; money never mollifies <i>my</i> customers if they\'re not in the mood to be mollified.

 

[hakoMike]

For those of us just tuning in, what did you buy and not get?

I bought the download version of the \"complete solution\" dvd after looking at the sample clip. For me, it was worth is for the camera work alone. I don\'t really have a lot of people to paint with, to see that level of painting up close is of great value to me.

 

[PrawnPower]

Originally posted by False Keraptis
Heed the words of Queen of Credits, for the sake of men yet unborn!

Seriously, that\'s very wise and insightful; money never mollifies <i>my</i> customers if they\'re not in the mood to be mollified.

Actually I disagree, when you\'ve been crossed it\'s well worth crippling yourself to make sure the other guy doesn\'t win either. But yes, it\'s not the money that counts, the principle is everything :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Other than that I\'m quite easy going



Back on track
Sorry Atacam, but I can\'t help

 

[DaRat]

I say buy the Miniature Mentor Painting DVD and the Advanced Tutorial 1. Both are quite good.

They had an offer that they latter found was not economical enough to honor. The revised offer is hardly bad enough to be worth investing more time in for legal redress.

Hardly a contract: from my layman\'s understanding, a contract requires both parties to agree to adhere to it. Do you have a signed agreement from both parties?

 

[demonherald]

They have offered it for sale they have advertised an item or bundle for a price and attacam has paid the money expecting that...
not sure what the full story is but a company can\'t change it\'s mind and raise it\'s price after the initial purchase agreement just because it is more popular or any other reason....

I suppose directions to take are..

Paypal .. If you paid via them I have found them pretty good at dealing with this kind of thing..

Trading standards...They do exist and they do do a thankless task but they really are quite good at it... They are legally obliged to be registered as a buisness as far as I\'m aware and as such should have a registered buisness address.

Have you tried PM\'s on here??? seemed that not so long back they were on here a lot and seemed to answer people quickly.??

anyways like I say not entirely sure of the full story but I think you are well within your rights to be pissed and possibly take action....

 

[atacam]

Thanks for the replies.

Demonherald is completely right.

@ Spacemunkie, I thought why not support the little guy, but wasn\'t expecting to get ripped off. the only thing this has done, is cause me to warn everyone I know, and I am legally allowed to do that(iv\'e checked)

It isn\'t th emoney, it is the principle, and that worth a lot. I have pm\'d them on here and they are ignoring those too. It looks like they have shut up shop on me. Crap customer service if you ask me.

As far as trading standards are concerned, I don\'t even know where in the world they are.

Also I did contact Paypal, but it appears they aren\'t interested either.

I have an email from a while ago, where they just say they had more costs, amongst other things, but asked me to keep it to myself, and not publically post it. Once I dig it out, I will post it, as I told them i wasn\'t sure i should keep it under wraps.

 

[supervike]

I will heed your word Atacam, and I was leaning towards checking it out. It\'s not worth taking the risk of being ripped off. I may consider if the company comes forward with other sets of circumstances.


A person or company is only as good as its word, and regardless of the situation, they should honor what they said they would.

It is absolutely the principal of it....and unfortunately we live in a world where the little guy gets screwed, and is more often than not powerless to do anything...as it would cost more to right the wrong. And that is just throwing away good money after bad.

I wouldn\'t worry about keeping anything under wraps either. Them asking you that just adds to the shadiness of this.

Good luck, although I\'m sure nothing will help you in this, other than some person at that company with the ability to honor thier word.

 

[demonherald]

you should be able to reach trading standards or a similar body through the local council they may be able to help you more chief.. good luck..

 

[veggiemanuk]

My only problem so far with these DVD is the lack of off mini footage, they fail to show the all important brush activity between getting paint onto the brush and touching the model. It took quite a few questions here and on TMP to finaly understand that you have to wipe MOST of the moisture from the brush to even start getting the technique right. I would have made sence much sooner had they shown it for 5 minnutes or so and not just hint at it for 5 seconds.

@Atacam, As far as getting ripped off goes, did they charge you more without notice? If they did charge you, considering you have an email from A WHILE AGO how long ago did they charge you? Its only been a month since the new offer began.

Sorry mate but all im thinking here is Mountain and Mole Hill.

 

[DaRat]

So, out of curiosity, if they had *LOWERED* the price on you, would you have raised just as much of a stink, insisting that they raise the price to match the original agreement?

 

[bullfrog]

@ atacam ... what exactly has happened as I am also a subscriber and would be really miffed if the price has been increased from that which I agreed to.

On a good note I have really liked what they have done so far. Although a frame of the finished mini would be nice to string all the segments together. In their defence it was the first offering from them and hopefully they will listen to customer\'s suggestions to improve further editions.

But unfortunately I must agree with the comments regarding customer service and emails ...or lack thereof.
I am still waiting a week and a half later for my link to a tutorial. I get the automated replies so I know my emails are being received but I rarely seem to get a proper reply.
At first I gave them the benefit of the doubt as they would get busy but a friend seems to get his replies within hours.

I don\'t want to cancel my subscription as I like the product but I will have no choice if I can\'t seem to get customer support.

Rather than stew over the subject the best thing you can do is the same ...cancel the subscription and write it off as a lesson in life.
And when you find that email let me know as I am now very interested in what they fell the need to keep from their customers.

 

[demonherald]

Originally posted by DaRat
So, out of curiosity, if they had *LOWERED* the price on you, would you have raised just as much of a stink, insisting that they raise the price to match the original agreement?

I think the answer to that would obviouslybe no but at the same time I\'m sure Atacam would be one of the first to post up here how great it was that they had lowered their price.....

legally sellers can lower the price and not be in breach of any customer contract but rising during or after a sale isn\'t allowed...

more importantly from a customer service standpoint it is bad practise.. I for one praise the guys that are putting the miniature mentors things together good show.. however from some of the responses here and previously some of the initial problems with formats I would say that customer service has become lapse.. The fact that this thread has been open for a few days and no-one from them has responded should in itself serve as a slight warning to people....
This site is one of the biggest painting communities on the web.. Pissing off a potential customer base as large as this isn\'t a good thing...

I don\'t speak with any massive authority as I don\'t know the full tale neither am I formally trained in legal matters... I have had 15 years experience dealing with trading standards and retail law situations from the retailers side and things like asking not to disclose info ,, not responding to queries and raising agreed prices are all not nice areas..

I hope it is a temporary hitch and all is resolved and buisness continues. The painting community as a whole will benefit as feedback from people regards the qualiy of the tut\'s is excellent.. however I think Atacam is bang to rights to bring up what he see\'s as a grievance especially when simple communication may well sort it out ......

 

[atacam]

Ok to put it in simple terms. They advertised to product and asked people to buy it on faith, at a certain price.

Here is a quotr from my other post, which should explain.

Just for clearification, we are doing everything to get our subscription service working. ($30 first month - $5.00 additional months). But becuase of compatability issues with our service providers it is going to take some time. Once it is up and running we will send a link to everyone who has purchased the first tutorial ($30). That will allow them to skip the first lump-sum payment and only be charged the reoccuring monthly fee.

Well I have paid my $30, and now they want another $20, then $10 more every month. surely this is a contract that they are obligated to honour?

False advertising I think.

If you want to read more see here.

http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=25841

I am not the only one pissed off.

As Mr DH had said, I would have shouted it from the roof tops if I had, had good service. But they haven\'t answered my emails either.

 

[Jazz is for losers]

I remember the original complaint thread, and it did sound like you (and some others) got ripped off. Even though I\'d never buy this type of stuff, I\'m sure that MM have done their future prospects some damage by their actions. I know they post here, maybe they\'ll even read this thread. I\'d be interested to see what they say (their last explanation wasn\'t very good - \"We need more money\", or words to that effect).

 

[DaRat]

I agree that the Miniature Mentor folks could have handled this issue better.

It is hard for me to take someone who is threatening legal action over \"breach of contract\" \"on principle\" over $10 seriously. Particularly since you wouldn\'t insist that the keep to the terms of the agreement if they decided to drop the price.

Ripped off? Hardly that either.

To me, it seems like a gambit to try and blackmail the Miniature Mentor folks into acceding to his demands. Essentially, \"if you don\'t give me that deal, I\'m spiteful enough to try to do my utmost best to ruin your business, particularly since my incremental cost of being a pain in your butt is minimal\".

 

[Jazz is for losers]

Have you read the original thread?

Here\'s a pertinent quote, in case you haven\'t seen it (it\'s 2 posts up)

Just for clearification, we are doing everything to get our subscription service working. ($30 first month - $5.00 additional months). But becuase of compatability issues with our service providers it is going to take some time. Once it is up and running we will send a link to everyone who has purchased the first tutorial ($30). That will allow them to skip the first lump-sum payment and only be charged the reoccuring monthly fee.

Well I have paid my $30, and now they want another $20, then $10 more every month. surely this is a contract that they are obligated to honour?

False advertising I think.

I think they\'ve been treated unfairly. I don\'t know how you can try to justify this or why you\'d want to. OK it\'s not a large amount of money, but as the OP has already stated, it\'s not all about the money. And even then, to say \"It\'s $10\" is entirely disingenuous. By my reckoning, it\'s $20 + $5 per month. That\'s at least $80 in one year (or $56 if you count monthly subscription at $8. Even then, whet exactly are they getting? If I were more cynical I\'d say that the entire business model is just a fraud). Notice that MM hasn\'t answered any mail or been back to defend his standpoint. They\'ve been ripped off, it\'s quite easy to see how.