more american genius
- Thread starter freakinacage
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I disagree. By Definition: capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.
Grasping facts from observation and using those facts is a measure of intelligence.
Merely remembering and reciting facts is mimicry, a feat that can be taught to some birds and monkeys.
Our school system of today does not push intuitive thinking or logic, they teach mimicry.
Those facts are crammed into study sessions for one or two semsters then it is filed into the back of the mind as useless information as it rarely pertains to the every day joe\'s ordinary life.
As an example, in High School I was horrible in Trigonometry. Yet when I went to the military and used Trig to triangulate in sonar I was really good at it. In high school I saw no use for trig, no real world application. In the military I saw and used it in real world applications, thereby learning it, understanding it, far better than I had in school.
Geography, while a nice knowledge to have, does not have real worl applications for the ordinary person.
@GreenOne - I certainly won\'t refute your description of those people on the video as dumb. After all, the whole reason they are chosen to be on the video is because they give dumb answers.
However, I do beg to differ with your definition of intelligence you give here:
You\'re telling me that if you\'re intelligent, you never forget things??? You\'re telling me that, by your definition, because I can\'t recall off the top of my head the proofs for the Pythagorean theorem, just because I haven\'t needed it since back in 9th grade some 30+ years ago, that I\'m unintelligent??? Or because I can\'t remember the exact dates for the start and end of the War of the Roses? Or because I can\'t remember if the Pleistocene Epoch came before or after the Pliocene? While I\'m sure that you, as a very intelligent individual, can regurgitate at will every single thing you\'ve ever learned, I believe that for most of us your definition is a tad stringent and narrow.
Edit: Damn!!!
I took too long typing! I see Evil Dave beat me to it! Darn work interrupting my Forum time!!!
However, I do beg to differ with your definition of intelligence you give here:
You\'re telling me that if you\'re intelligent, you never forget things??? You\'re telling me that, by your definition, because I can\'t recall off the top of my head the proofs for the Pythagorean theorem, just because I haven\'t needed it since back in 9th grade some 30+ years ago, that I\'m unintelligent??? Or because I can\'t remember the exact dates for the start and end of the War of the Roses? Or because I can\'t remember if the Pleistocene Epoch came before or after the Pliocene? While I\'m sure that you, as a very intelligent individual, can regurgitate at will every single thing you\'ve ever learned, I believe that for most of us your definition is a tad stringent and narrow.
Edit: Damn!!!
I took too long typing! I see Evil Dave beat me to it! Darn work interrupting my Forum time!!! Limting intelligence to real world application isn\'t satisafactory in my opinion.
General culture is something that I consider essential. Because that is what is needed to carry a \'flawless\' reflexion on most important subjects. Limting inteligence to immediat application to your surounding means limiting human reflexion to reactions to the environement. The ability of abstraction is in my view something essential. For example, take the notion of infinitude (spelling ?), it has no immediate application since it can\'t even be observed, but I would most probably consider unintelligent somebody unable to grasp the concept. Calling unintelligent somebody who can\'t do abstract trigonometry is a mistake as it is a specific form of abstraction that is in my view not part of a minimum requirement base. But I would consider it a form of intelligence to be able to grasp trigonometry in its mathematical form.
The ability to cope with what is thrown your way is a form of intelligence, and a necessary tool to survival. But it is not there that lies the specificity of human intelligence.
PS: Maybe Bruno can be left out of my list. I added him there because we were on the subject of the sun rotating around the earth. He was one of the first scientist to be burned by the church for questioning the Ptolémé system the churched used. In a sense, he is the precursor of Galileo.
@Dauber and EvilDave: Apart from subtle differences, we\'re talking about the same thing. Of course one can\'t remember everything, I never said I remember everything or even that I am intelligent for that matter. Please reread my post, I was noting that if forgeting is just a normal degradation process that everyone is victim of, losing the ability to remember is sign of a mental ablation.
Still the accumulation, reminding
and usage of knowledge all define intelligence.
Some of the questions in skeeve post are thing that are easily forgotten, the stuff in the video was plain obvious. I was mainly commenting the video, exept for the sun argument.
Here lies the problem. The fact that the average Joe don\'t give a crap about anything else than the actions that directly fill his bank account. TV and Alcohol occupy the rest of his time ( Agreed this is a generalisation.). It is surely not a valid excuse for being dumb.
I am happy to understand the concept of the atomic bomb, even tough I am never gonna use it.
Personally I don\'t only view general culture as a proof of someone mental capacities, but also, and foremost, as a moral and social responsibility. Only mental exercise, critical thinking and general culture will prevent any society from becoming a decadent bunch of undereducated, narrow and gullible people; which is the way some people, some people view the american society. This is a caricature, of course, but it certainly indicate a visible tendency.
Still the accumulation, reminding
and usage of knowledge all define intelligence.
Some of the questions in skeeve post are thing that are easily forgotten, the stuff in the video was plain obvious. I was mainly commenting the video, exept for the sun argument.
Here lies the problem. The fact that the average Joe don\'t give a crap about anything else than the actions that directly fill his bank account. TV and Alcohol occupy the rest of his time ( Agreed this is a generalisation.). It is surely not a valid excuse for being dumb.
I am happy to understand the concept of the atomic bomb, even tough I am never gonna use it.
Personally I don\'t only view general culture as a proof of someone mental capacities, but also, and foremost, as a moral and social responsibility. Only mental exercise, critical thinking and general culture will prevent any society from becoming a decadent bunch of undereducated, narrow and gullible people; which is the way some people, some people view the american society. This is a caricature, of course, but it certainly indicate a visible tendency.
@frenchkid:
I wasn\'t \"limiting intelligence to real world applications\", I was showing an example of how people tend to forget or even do horribly at things they see have no real world applications.
We will classify this as \"Useless Information\". ie: The exports of Bogota, Columbia. Nice to know, but not really useful in any real sense of the word to the average joe\'s daily life.
To some \"useless information\" is a boon, a way to crow over the plebians that they are so much more intelligent, to others \"useless iinformation\" is just that \"useless information\", that may or may not become \"useful\" some day, and to others, a vast group of others, \"useless information\" is just a bother that affects their day to day world not at all.
What is classified as \"useless information\" varies from person to person.
If you crashed onto an abandoned island, who would you prefer to have with you?
A.) A Soldier trained in survival
B.) A Construction Worker
C.) A Gynecologist
In our society, the Gynecologist would be deemed the most intelligent, while the soldier and the construction worker are regarded as little more than retards, by many of our high brow intellectuals. Yet, in the right situations, the soldier, and the construction worker are far more intelligent than the doctor.
I wasn\'t \"limiting intelligence to real world applications\", I was showing an example of how people tend to forget or even do horribly at things they see have no real world applications.
We will classify this as \"Useless Information\". ie: The exports of Bogota, Columbia. Nice to know, but not really useful in any real sense of the word to the average joe\'s daily life.
To some \"useless information\" is a boon, a way to crow over the plebians that they are so much more intelligent, to others \"useless iinformation\" is just that \"useless information\", that may or may not become \"useful\" some day, and to others, a vast group of others, \"useless information\" is just a bother that affects their day to day world not at all.
What is classified as \"useless information\" varies from person to person.
If you crashed onto an abandoned island, who would you prefer to have with you?
A.) A Soldier trained in survival
B.) A Construction Worker
C.) A Gynecologist
In our society, the Gynecologist would be deemed the most intelligent, while the soldier and the construction worker are regarded as little more than retards, by many of our high brow intellectuals. Yet, in the right situations, the soldier, and the construction worker are far more intelligent than the doctor.
Shawn R. L.
New member
The one qualifier I would add to that is wisdom. Being \'smart\' and wise are two completely different things. Smart without wisdom dosen\'t equal much.
Gilvan Blight
New member
Almost posted that myself. Reminded me of those \"What\'s the Difference between WIS and INT\" sections of RPG rulebooks.
Those are two different questions.
Also, they usually gather around you. There is a certain nitwit-factor involved: Sooner or later a nitwit will somehow be involved in your day - at least once a day.
I have never in my life heard about Giordano Bruno. I have never heard him being burned at the stake, never heard what he did to deserve it and never even heard name before. What does that make me?
Before you answer, I do know what laser is and can tell you what a molecule is.
Personally I don\'t think you can define stupidity. You just know someone is stupid. The really bad ones are the voluntarily ignorant ones anyway.
Hey, I just realised what bother me most about those people...
They all give stupid answers, and would probably stand by them, instead of just saying \"You know, I can\'t recall that.\" or \"Weird, I don\'t recall Iran being there.\"
That would be known as honnesty, or modesty, maybe not signs of intelligence, but surely sign of wisdom.
\" I would make a big crater out of middle-east if you ask me.\"
This reminds me, a lot of them seem to lack wisdom as much as intelligence.
They all give stupid answers, and would probably stand by them, instead of just saying \"You know, I can\'t recall that.\" or \"Weird, I don\'t recall Iran being there.\"
That would be known as honnesty, or modesty, maybe not signs of intelligence, but surely sign of wisdom.
\" I would make a big crater out of middle-east if you ask me.\"
This reminds me, a lot of them seem to lack wisdom as much as intelligence.
Or on the flipside of \'too few truly live\' you could say that too many of the little shits around these days are allowed to live!
Perhaps a slightly harsh view, but I do currently reside in chav central, and have to put up with packs of horrible little gits on a daily basis.
Man, I must be getting old, I\'m freely admitting to being at odds with the youth \'yob\' element.
Perhaps a slightly harsh view, but I do currently reside in chav central, and have to put up with packs of horrible little gits on a daily basis.
Man, I must be getting old, I\'m freely admitting to being at odds with the youth \'yob\' element.
Can\'t really blame those kids, even if I can\'t say I don\'t feel the same way. It might be because of the stupid programs, mass media, the way the parents (don\'t) educate them, the lack of social structure... and so on.
I especially stress the importance of mass media here, can\'t stand to see my sister and her friends increasingly turn into a hip-hop video...
I especially stress the importance of mass media here, can\'t stand to see my sister and her friends increasingly turn into a hip-hop video...
Gilvan Blight
New member
Has anyone seen Stupidity the documentary?
It\'s an excellent look at the definition of Stupidity.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0399704/
It\'s an excellent look at the definition of Stupidity.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0399704/
Has she uploaded a video of herself shaking her booty to a hip-hop tune onto Youtube yet? What\'s with that new craze and am I alone in finding it rather disturbing?
I would actually say that wise parental influence is by far the most important thing, because if it sets a good example then children will have strong enough personalities and enough intelligence to not be influenced by the media like that.
Nope, thank god, she is unaware of Youtube in fact, but she chats in an uninteligible language.
I am more concerned with her little \'whore in training\' friends, she won\'t be able to keepup with them socially and will probably end up with a bunch of geeks, it ain\'t that bad...
You ain\'t the only one finding it disturbing, I do . And all the slutty clothing too... I saw a 12 yo with a bellytop t-shirt written \'food\' on her barely developing breast. I asked her where she got it and she answered her mom baught it for her... most people see nothing wrong with dressing their kids like prostitutes, but still pedophilia is considered the worst possible crime, maybe behind murder. This is wrong
I am more concerned with her little \'whore in training\' friends, she won\'t be able to keepup with them socially and will probably end up with a bunch of geeks, it ain\'t that bad...
You ain\'t the only one finding it disturbing, I do . And all the slutty clothing too... I saw a 12 yo with a bellytop t-shirt written \'food\' on her barely developing breast. I asked her where she got it and she answered her mom baught it for her... most people see nothing wrong with dressing their kids like prostitutes, but still pedophilia is considered the worst possible crime, maybe behind murder. This is wrong
Originally posted by GreenOne
See? I think we\'ve reached an agreement
It\'s also noticeable that this topic has been taken from \"are the american stupid.\" to \" How can one really define stupidity.\"
I think this community is evolving lol
We can spend some time defining intelligence and stupidity, however there are certain basic factual information that people better know and understand.
Nobody ask people to define laser or molecule in precise scientific terms - that would be utterly stupid. They were asked to explain in their own words.
Now, while people might tell that knowing this is unimportant let me remind you that we all live in the society that claim to be democratic. One thing that follows from here is that people vote. Now for the last 5 years for example the question about state funding of stem cell research has been put on vote in several states here. Tell me please, can these people vote without understanding what is \"stem\", what is \"cell\", and frankly, what is \"research\"? The answer is, unfortunately, they can and they do and the rest of us have to deal with the consequences. The list of political decisions or conflicts that rise from this problem is very long and probably deserved a book or two.
Again to make it \"balanced\" heated discussion on genetically modified food on the other side of Atlantic... remember this question about tomatoes and genes? Statistically half of the population (that\'s optimistically) participates in discussion without clear understanding what they are discussing.
they are, he just have to compare his own data with those collected in UK. Questions were formulated differently but it is as close as you can get.
In case somebody wants this paper here is a refs
Jon Miler
Public understanding of, and attitudes toward,scientific research: what we know and what we need to know.
Public understanding of Science v.13 (2004), page 273-294
paintingploddy
New member
The video has been shown here a few times. I guarantee you I could get the same from a street survey here in Australia. Stupid people are everywhere. We tend to learn what interests us. Some know intimate details of every Star trek episode - not my thing and probably of no use on a desert island. Doesn\'t make them smart or stupid. You can teach most people almost anything. If they aren\'t interested they\'re unlikely to learn much. I reckon true intelligence is how quickly you can assimilate and apply new information as well as your ability to recall and apply all those learnt skills from the past.
