NMM - A daft and pretentious practice

[tagron]

Originally posted by montka
Very nice picture, but I think a hundred of them would look dull. Humans from all cultures love gold and silver ornamentation. It is simply more beautiful than yellow and grey, in the right proportions.

Just admit it man, NMM or Metalics, vanilla or chocolate, ninjas or pirates, red or blue, makes no matter. Your entitled to your opinion, but please recognize thats all it is, an opinion, not an absolute.

Personally im on the side of the NMM enthusiasts, but i totally see were your coming from, their both cool, doesnt meen one is better than the other.

 

[montka]

@Swordwind
Your comments are inflammatory; your resort to viscious imagery shows you have failed to provide a coherent argument against my views, and are an effeminate punkass.

@lono
Want a fight?

As for the air of unease surrounding the subject, I\'ve always felt there was something wrong with nmm; I am writing my views because as someone who posts his work on the site I feel a part of the community, and would not like to leave unless compelled. Others too share a sense of unease around NMM; a certain eavy metal painter at GD 2006 told me he thought CMON was pretentious, so it\'s not just me.

My first point: display armies are great, single minis are too small to be impressive.

In my view, a single 28mm model, whatever the painting standard, is never going to be that impressive visually. I think a lot of glory is sought and given for technical skill with a brush on this site; cool ideas are also respected. Both are worthy of praise, but in my view without being part of a large scale project they aren\'t that impressive.

Point two: NMM looks absolutely beautiful from the correct viewing angle, but it looks poor from all other angles. It is a 2d pattern painted on a 3d object which absolutely fails to give the impression of being a reflective surface when viewed in real life.

I reckon the great skill of miniatures artists on this site and elsewhere should be devoted to an art form that did not involve compromise in either scale or realism.

 

[AinuLainour]

Originally posted by montka
..a certain eavy metal painter at GD 2006 told me he thought CMON was pretentious, so it\'s not just me.

My first point: display armies are great, single minis are too small to be impressive.

In my view, a single 28mm model, whatever the painting standard, is never going to be that impressive visually.

First of all, there are at least three \'Eavy Metal painters on CMoN who submit figures and occasionally post on the forums (ie. Razza, fil dunn).

Second, I am going to assume that you have never been to a Golden Demon. \"..display armies are great, single minis are too small to be impressive.\"

And then consider CMoN\'s reaction to what you\'ve written so far. Sure, we\'ll listen to your opinion, but when you\'re cyber-crapping all over what CMoN stands for, don\'t expect many, if any, to agree with you.

 

[Ebonbuddha]

I agree.

Its over done and pretty much boring at this point.

Except for hte part about painting your models bright colours.

Originally posted by montka
I have long been of the opinion that nmm is an odd pattern to want to paint on a mini, and I have finally put my finger on why I don\'t like it.

It\'s not that I don\'t think that it can look good - when done right, it can look amazing. But come on! Even the best painted mini is still only a three centimetre high, oddly proportioned piece of finely sculpted pewter - just one isn\'t all that impressive, except as a display of technical skill. A superbly painted and converted model ought to lead a finely painted army onto the field of battle, otherwise it is just an effeminate trinket!

There\'s no point in having your general painted to reflect a single light source, when you\'re going to be viewing him from all sides during the game. I also recommend that the hobbyist use a nice bright colour so he doesn\'t get lost amid all that flock.

Size matters. NMM looks nice, but if its not part of a large army, who cares how fancy it looks?

 

[tagron]

Originally posted by montka
@Swordwind
Your comments are inflammatory; your resort to viscious imagery shows you have failed to provide a coherent argument against my views, and are an effeminate punkass.

hehehehe

I think he means to make mock of the fact that you assume the models displayed on CMON have any relevence in context to armies. Its just funny because a very large percent of us dont play, anything. Infact the serious painters i know actually scorn the hobby.
For us painting is an artform. And NMM is one of our most versatile methods, allowing us further controll over mood, atmosphere, and allowing us to convey exactly the look we want.
So please excuse this section of the community when we respond with hostility. Its just that when something that we take so much pride in is so rudely attacked (daft, and pretentious) we get defencive. Admit it, by making the topic heading such a statment, you werent looking for a goup of people to calmly nod and say \"agree to dissagree\" did you?

 

[Ulrak]

Everyone\'s pretentious including moi.
see how pretentious was that. lol
sorry for the bad joke could\'nt resist
back on topic.
All of the effects from NMM to metallics have an equal place in the hobby.
And to argue over it is somewhat pointless.
\"each to their own\" as my granny used to say.

 

[lono]

Originally posted by montka
@lono
Want a fight?

The mere fact you associate cock punching with fighting shows you don\'t appreciate the art form. Cock punching isn\'t about combat, it\'s about disabling your opponent with a rapid and underhand smack to the groin before any potentially violent manouvers can be initiated against you. The competent cock puncher abhors violence, preferring the spectacle of a split second rabbit punch to the groin.

An effective cock punch does of course then give you free reign to get stuck in whilst the foe is on the ground writhing in agony should you feel the need, but legging it, happy in the knowledge that the reputation of the cockney cock punch has been upheld normally suits me.

Besides, you should never ask someone if they \'Want a fight?\', it gives preparation time to the other party involved. The cock punch is the only initiator required. Simply approach your chosen victim from a blind spot, thrust upwards with the cock punch, turn his gonads into scrambled eggs, and leave, all in the same time it would have taken you to muster up the bluster and ask \'Want a fight?\'

There are, of course, far deeper secrets to the esoteric art of cock punching, but were I to reveal them to the mere plebes who inhabit CMON I would have to commit Seppuku. Whilst this would be an honourable death, I see no glory in subjecting myself to a fatal groin punching, so alas, for now I must depart.

 

[matty1001]

lol

The art of war by lono

 

[zombiesincorporated]

My first point: display armies are great, single minis are too small to be impressive.
In my view, a single 28mm model, whatever the painting standard, is never going to be that impressive visually. I think a lot of glory is sought and given for technical skill with a brush on this site; cool ideas are also respected. Both are worthy of praise, but in my view without being part of a large scale project they aren\'t that impressive.

Point two: NMM looks absolutely beautiful from the correct viewing angle, but it looks poor from all other angles. It is a 2d pattern painted on a 3d object which absolutely fails to give the impression of being a reflective surface when viewed in real life.

These are just opinions. I don\'t like strawberry icecream. Sorry, can\'t be helped. I don\'t think red looks good on armies. Show me one that does and I\'ll eat your hat too. This curious practice of painting red on armies is daft and pretentious. Blah, blah, blah.

Obviously opinions are great to have, but when you feel compelled to share them with the world you should expect a good cock punching. It\'s not personal.

 

[Bastetcat]

Originally posted by lono
...Cock punching isn\'t about combat, it\'s about disabling your opponent with a rapid and underhand smack to the groin before any potentially violent manouvers can be initiated against you....

lol lol
That was awesome. I had no idea of the levels of complexity that went into your art. I prostrate myself before you. That post also just made reading this whole stupid thread worthwhile.
I have a great idea. Who\'s for a beer or three? :beer:

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by montka


My first point: display armies are great, single minis are too small to be impressive.

In my view, a single 28mm model, whatever the painting standard, is never going to be that impressive visually. I think a lot of glory is sought and given for technical skill with a brush on this site; cool ideas are also respected. Both are worthy of praise, but in my view without being part of a large scale project they aren\'t that impressive.
And with that comment you have complety indicated your contempt for every Golden Deamon / Slayer Sword winner.

So if you are expecting any form of support or great praise for your point of view from members of this site then , whatever sympathy that might have been gathered is surely diminished.
Your point about a well painted army looking good does have some merit. If not then Tournaments wouldn\'t have points and awards for the best painted army.
However to dismiss a single figure which might have taken as long to paint as a whole squad/regiment as an \'effette toy\' is a very blinkered, if not bigoted, viewpoint.

 

[darkartminiatures]

NMM is just another player in the game....take it or leave it. Some like it, some don\'t. Me, i like it and I\'d like to shake the hand that painted an army in NMM.

 

[Avelorn]

Why paint eyes and details on a miniature? That\'s not going to show at an armlength distance on the table.

I saw you did some gems on your miniatures.. same thing. Why don\'t you buy real pearls? well.. it\'s going to look crap just as using real gold plating does. What we are trying to do is sell an of illusion of something really small being somthing really big, that\'s why we use all these trick of the eyes. If you\'re not into NMM that\'s fine, but this is just trolling, nothing more.

 

[Ritual]

The idea that NMM always only look good from ONE very specific angle always comes up in rants like this where someone dismisses NMM as a technique (and in fact... NMM gets crapped on A LOT more than using metallics ). This shows a lack of understanding how the technique, which correctly is a 2D technique applied to a 3D surface, is used and what it is in essence.

In fact, ALL shading and highlighting are 2D effects applied on 3D surfaces. Strangely enough, no one ever complains about a nicely shaded and highlighted robe only looks good from one specific angle, although the method used is basically the same as with NMM (only not taken as far).

When you look at a mini from a certain angle you will see a certain area on the mini more clearly than others. This area is then shaded and highlighted so that it will look good from that specific angle. When you turn the mini around a bit another area is more visible and then you paint that area so it will look good from this angle. And so on, and so forth... Thus, when looking at a finished mini your view will always be dominated by an area painted to look good from the angle you\'re currently viewing it from.

 

[demonherald]

Originally posted by montka
@Swordwind
Your comments are inflammatory; your resort to viscious imagery shows you have failed to provide a coherent argument against my views, and are an effeminate punkass.

WTF??



@lono
Want a fight?

read your own quote above....

As for the air of unease surrounding the subject, I\'ve always felt there was something wrong with nmm; I am writing my views because as someone who posts his work on the site I feel a part of the community, and would not like to leave unless compelled. Others too share a sense of unease around NMM; a certain eavy metal painter at GD 2006 told me he thought CMON was pretentious, so it\'s not just me.



so your gripe is with NMM or CMON in general.....If the latter then just P%$s off.No one is forcing you to take part in something you don\'t want to.


My first point: display armies are great, single minis are too small to be impressive.

there\'s less crap coming out of my 2 year olds size 6 pampers at this point.

In my view, a single 28mm model, whatever the painting standard, is never going to be that impressive visually. I think a lot of glory is sought and given for technical skill with a brush on this site; cool ideas are also respected. Both are worthy of praise, but in my view without being part of a large scale project they aren\'t that impressive.

You really really don\'t get it do ya...In my 5 years as manager at GW I taught 100\'s nay thousands of KIDS to paint armies...I managed to teach maybe 1 or 2 highly skilled painters to apply techniques such as NMM ...The whole point of this site is the glory and praise for technical skill with a brush.

Point two: NMM looks absolutely beautiful from the correct viewing angle, but it looks poor from all other angles. It is a 2d pattern painted on a 3d object which absolutely fails to give the impression of being a reflective surface when viewed in real life.

Not when done properly and that is what people aspire to.It\'s taking a 2d pattern andmaking it appear 3d .That is where the skill and the challenge come in.. Have you actually seen perfectly painted NMM in Real Life rather than a 2d picture image or are you spouting crap other people have said now your running out of your own crap..follow the link below to find 360 views of Natalya Melnik (Alexi Z ) models at Chicago 2006.



I reckon the great skill of miniatures artists on this site and elsewhere should be devoted to an art form that did not involve compromise in either scale or realism.

So All your gaming models have weapons the right size...Body parts in proportion?? and the other colours you paint perfectly reflect real life??


An opinion is a great thing but seriously when it comes to some people having one I\'m with the Nazi\'s

gd 2006 chicago coverage

btw Iono LOL:drunk:

 

[petey]

What\'s up with the anger directed towards this motka guy? If his comments truly are silly and have no basis then you should just ignore him.

To use an analogy, if someone calls you an ugly bastard, and you\'ve just won \"Best Looking Man In The World\" award, then you will just laugh his criticisms off. By responding to his comments, aren\'t you displaying your own doubts and fears about the hobby?

 

[supervike]

Are we new to the Internet?

FROM Wikipedia:

\"In Internet terminology, a troll is someone who intentionally posts derogatory or otherwise inflammatory messages about sensitive topics in an established online community such as an online discussion forum to bait users into responding\"

 

[Avelorn]

Originally posted by petey
What\'s up with the anger directed towards this motka guy? If his comments truly are silly and have no basis then you should just ignore him.

To use an analogy, if someone calls you an ugly bastard, and you\'ve just won \"Best Looking Man In The World\" award, then you will just laugh his criticisms off. By responding to his comments, aren\'t you displaying your own doubts and fears about the hobby?

Is there anyone else here that is angry? If I say someone talks bollocks doesn\'t mean I\'m angry. There are more important things to get angry about here in life than trolling. Some comments have been hostile, but if you name a thread \"NMM - A daft and pretentious practice\" what do you expect?

As for the other part, yes sure.. but haven\'t most of us had a history of defending our hobby? I try to be proud of what I do and what I collect and don\'t beat around the bush with it. But honestly there has been some scepticism towards it from others (not so much now though) and sometimes I have bad conscience for spending so much money on the hobby (and my collection of painted miniatures). But I\'m a miniature painting geek.. that\'s what I am.

 

[demonherald]

Amen Brother Avelorn...I rightly wear my model painting Geek badge for all to see...Strange turnaround as my mates have got older they\'ve all decided what I do is really cool as they start to appreciate not that it\'s an orc shaman conversion but the amount of time dedication and skill it takes to paint it\'s eyes or teeth...

Hell even my mum and dad think what I do is cool now and they hated me spending all my pocket money on it.

 

[lono]

I just took up the opportunity to talk a load of nosesnse about cock punching. Insightful nonsense if I do say so myself, but still complete and utter insanity. What could be wrong with that?

Thanks for the inspiration NSA.