NMM - A daft and pretentious practice

[fat lad]

@darkartminiatures. I understand that its all fun on the forums but i just felt a bit offended by freakinacage\'s comment as it was if he made out that i was only here to fight and im not i just want to convey an opinion and i think that this whole thread has descended into madness as people cant accept that people have opinions that arent the same as theirs.

-T-

 

[zombiesincorporated]

I hate NMM. It just seems stupid and unneeded.

I\'m not here to fight. I just want to express my opinions. I hate how you paint, it seems stupid and unneeded.

Enter the madness . . .

 

[Avelorn]

@Fat lad: I also personally like Metallics better then NMM in general.. but that\'s far from the question here. We\'ve had this discussion before and if the question was written in a polite manner and not to piss everyone off (or \"lecture\" them) that likes NMM or even painting single miniatures, we would have had another discussion now.

The argument that it doesn\'t look realistical is built on the premise that what we do is try to picture reality as it is, but not many of us try to do that. Much is exaggerating, playing with effects, doing drama.. much like fantasy and sci-fi illustrators always done. NMM gives you a broader palette to paint with.. There are many things you can do with NMM that you can\'t do with metallic paints and that\'s why I use it, it is as simple as that.

The argument that armies look better then single miniatures is.. well only a matter of taste. And this is said in a forum and site dedicated mostly to painting single miniatures and characters. Yes armies can look cool, but my display cabinet looks cool as well... A single miniature can tell you just as good story as an army. I mean a large portion of the miniatures displayed here aren\'t even to a game system that lets you field armies. Take Hasslefree or every miniature to D&D.. Depicting every miniature of the fellowship for example.. that\'s also a rich story to tell.

And tbh metallic paint doesn\'t necessary looks like realistic metal just because there\'s metal flakes in it. It looks like some kind of metal, yes. But does the reflections of a 28mm knight behave like they do on a lifesize guy dressed up in shiny armour? No not at all! Subdued, aluminiumlike and dirty metals are doable though.. should we always and only stick to that?

 

[treide]

This is a very entertaining thread. People really seem to feel strongly about this stuff!

I have been trying to paint NMM primarily because the paint sets I own only have one metallic paint - bronze. I have only used it once, and I personally thought it looked weird - too \"sparkly\". I had to use multiple dark brown washes to get it to look \"realistic\".

Since folks seem to be frothing at the mouth over this, how do they feel about other effects?

Painted water vs. water effects?

Static grass vs. make it yourself from the spice cabinet?

Natural vs. Painted rocks when using real rocks on a base (I think this one is particularly funny - why would I paint a rock to look more like a rock?)

Is painting sheer/translucent fabric a \"no-no\".

I think if someone is willing to put the time into it, all of these techniques can look excellent.

As far as armies vs. single minis, I don\'t see how people can paint the same style of mini over and over again. I would go nuts from the monotony of it. Congratulations to those who have the willpower for it!

 

[misterjustin]

I think that treide really hit home on this thread. I\'ve jumped in to read it a couple of times but decided to stay out when it got... silly.

NMM is a painting technique. When done correctly it can look amazing. While I haven\'t ready each post all that closely I can\'t imagine that anyone is bashing Silphid\'s work as daft. I also haven\'t found his tutorials pretentious.

Like anything in this hobby (and allow me to stress HOBBY) it should be viewed as a technique. Something in the toolkit of any skilled painter.

Metals can be painted as well, with as much highlight and contrast: true. The work that Tidocco does is proof enough of that. Does that make his work better than Silphid\'s? I certainly don\'t think so. I don\'t think it\'s worse, either. They\'re DIFFERENT pieces by DIFFERENT artists with a DIFFERENT focus.

Me, I find inspiration looking at the work that either of them post. I hope to paint half as well as either of them -- whether doing NMM or real metals.

As for NMM sometimes getting a higher rating: I had the opposite experience. My Kharn is sitting at a comfortable 7.3 -- the same as some of my Tier 1 tanks despite being the best shading, highlighting and blending I\'ve ever done. Period. The photo was taken in a light box -- all of the shading and highlights visisble are painted... including the NMM.

So judge the technique and the people seperately. I mean, hey, I\'m a pretentious ass... and I don\'t think I\'ll do NMM again.

 

[fat lad]

Originally posted by treide
This is a very entertaining thread. People really seem to feel strongly about this stuff!

I have been trying to paint NMM primarily because the paint sets I own only have one metallic paint - bronze. I have only used it once, and I personally thought it looked weird - too \"sparkly\". I had to use multiple dark brown washes to get it to look \"realistic\".

Since folks seem to be frothing at the mouth over this, how do they feel about other effects?

Painted water vs. water effects?

Static grass vs. make it yourself from the spice cabinet?

Natural vs. Painted rocks when using real rocks on a base (I think this one is particularly funny - why would I paint a rock to look more like a rock?)

Is painting sheer/translucent fabric a \"no-no\".

I think if someone is willing to put the time into it, all of these techniques can look excellent.

As far as armies vs. single minis, I don\'t see how people can paint the same style of mini over and over again. I would go nuts from the monotony of it. Congratulations to those who have the willpower for it!

I think the whole thing about painting a rock to look like rock is for one of 2 reasons to me:
1. You may not have the colour of rock that you want, e.g. you may want a sandy coloured rock but only have a grey one.
2. I think it helps to tie the model together if you have all of the elements on the model in the same style (if that makes sense).

I agree about the monotony of painting the same style over and over thats one of the reasons i dont do armies that often (that and my indecisiveness).

-T-

 

[Ritual]

The biggest reason why you should paint rocks that you put on your bases etc. is that a 2 cm wide rock looks just like a 2 cm wide rock. If you want it to look like a man-sized rock you have to paint it or else it will only look like a small, unpainted pebble.

It has to do with what you mention in your second point, but it also has to do with how you recognise the scale of things.

 

[Torn blue sky]

Ooook ladies put em away

What it comes down to is that it\'s a tecnique, and a very hard one to master. Not to everyones taste, perhaps. But you have to appreciate the thought and skill that goes into the process. As with all art it\'s open to interpretation! Now wheesht!

 

[treide]

@fat lad & Ritual - You are both right about the rocks, of course. The red rocks from my backyard don\'t look right in every scene, and they do look \"pebbly\" unless I do a wash to accentuate or simulate texture.

I still have to grin when I paint them and the voice in my head says, \"Now what would be the best way to paint this rock to look like a rock?\" In fact, I am grinning as I type it!

 

[Cold were so cold]

Right with you there Treide, have just started collecting woodelves (props to GW for the amazing work on them) and ive just spent three day painting slate to look more *real*.
Ive started looking at real rocks and thinking \"oh come one, I can do better then that\" Next thing you know i\'ll be ranking them and leaving little comments on post-it note,lol
On the NMM subject, the one thing i really object to is hw smug people get when they choose to do that effect, i am quite happy with by NMM skills but i hate the effect so choose not to do it, i think what many people dislike is the fact that it seems that you are looked apon as a second class painter if you use metallics.
And that Folks, is wrong

 

[darkartminiatures]

Its amazing what discussions go on here when you miss a few days

 

[laurence]

No Mind Me

It\'s funny seeing people referring to NMM painters as coming across as pretentious and smug. I\'ve been killing my free time for years coming to this site to look at painted toy soldiers and have never even thought once that anyone that has gone the NMM route on a mini is in any way pretentious etc. It one of a zillion ways to go about painting a mini - and it looks cool especially when going for the cartoony/comic book style of effect. qing cai qing cai

 

[Necrontyrtitan]

Good lord, people! We\'re arguing on the internet! About toy soldiers!!!

Seriously though, it all comes down to individual painting style and tastes...some people prefer NMM, some prefer metallics.

I have three playable, legal and (to my mind) well painted armies in various stages of completion, but I also have a whole host of other models, ones that I just like the looks of, in different scales, from different manufacturers, painted with different styles.

I\'ll likely play a handful of games with my armies, but I enjoy the painting and the imaginative side of the hobby far more. Its a personal choice! Sometimes I\'ll sit back and wonder why I\'m spending so much money, time and effort doing this, technically for no end, but I can\'t see myself stopping any time soon!

As for your comment on there being no point in a model if it doesn\'t belong to an army, is there no point in any sculpture if it doesn\'t come with some kind of background? I\'m impressed by both well painted individual models, and by well designed and painted armies. Are you basically saying that when presented with two models, one with an attendant (but unshown) army, and one without, but both painted to the same degree, with the same techniques, you would show a preference for one over the other based on that?

 

[usurpator]

I think this sketch is becoming siller.... and now for something different:
Scotsman on a horse, anybody?

 

[Avelorn]

Originally posted by Necrontyrtitan
Good lord, people! We\'re arguing on the internet! About toy soldiers!!!

Yeah.. at least we\'re not discussing who\'d win out of Gandalf and an AT-AT

People discuss and feel emotions about what matters to them.. even if it\'s something as silly as chasing a leather ball around a patch of grass.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by Avelorn

Originally posted by Necrontyrtitan
Good lord, people! We\'re arguing on the internet! About toy soldiers!!!

Yeah.. at least we\'re not discussing who\'d win out of Gandalf and an AT-AT

People discuss and feel emotions about what matters to them.. even if it\'s something as silly as chasing a leather ball around a patch of grass.

Ah but that depends if its a round or (proper) Ovoid Ball.

 

[airhead]

I submit that this picture and any picture of metals for that mater is NMM. Photo emulsions do not have gold (they do have silver, but do not have a shiney pigment) - nor do computer monitors - they only have three colors.

Thus, even if you paint it in metalics. The pic that gets posted here is really NMM.

(DON\'T FEED THE TROLLS)

 

[demonherald]

interesting point Airhead .......and DR the ovoid ball is the only ball ..:beer:

@treide some of the techniques you mention are been tried by people all the time especially transparent/sheer clothing that done well amazes me....as well as painted water (Eric.J\'s ) reflections say it all.

It\'s all part of the evolution thing...When you first start painting metallics seem easy quick coat of boltgun drybrush inkwash and bam all the detail is picked out..After a while you refine this technique a bit different colour wash painted highlights..Then you see NMM and have a go and find you like/don\'t like it.
Then you realise that metallics can be done in new ways (thanks Spanish and French Painters) and suddenly you realise that what was the easiest colour when you first started is actually one of the hardest things to replicate....

I am trying to play around with reflections in metal at the moment and have found it almost impossible to do this with metallic paints..In it\'s infancy for me but I will keep trying and the silver surfer is coming so lots of nice reference.

 

[Legacy Account]

Originally posted by fat lad

...stupid and unneeded....

**Stifles a comment about a parent saying something similar.....**

:beer:

 

[freakinacage]

@scott - lol

@fat lad - i\'m not accusing you . it just struck me as odd that this is the thread you choose to introduce yourself on. i didn\'t mean to lump you in with (i can\'t remember the dude who started the thread) him and his sweeping statements