Price increase! Aarrrgh!!!

[Flashman14]

I don\'t feel too strongly about anything on this topic - it\'s a mix of things - some complicated others not.

But I\'ve been reading White Dwarf for the last year and as they are rolling out new armies there is often discussion about why certain changes were made to new (or updated) armies. It nearly always comes down to game balance. Such that each army should be roughly balanced with every other. It will have a different feel, use diffrent approaches but 50% of the time - just based on the statistics alone - any army should be able to beat any other.

Through playtesting mostly they have to tinker with troop types to achieve that balance and if that means knocking out the Empire Halflings for the latest Empire codex then so be it - but for a gamer to re-introduce them again at a tournament may give either a burden or an unfair advantage to the Empire player. To have them adversely affects the balance of the tournament.

That\'s just a feeble attempt to illustrate my point but people who know the games a bit better can give proper examples. Sturmhalo - that war eagle you mentioned may be a perfect example . . .

In one-off games some flexibility in the rules is fine but when you\'re trying to adjudicate rules in a tournament setting amongst hundreds of players it\'s just critical that everybody follows the same rules.

Know what I mean?

 

[blackscribe]

The whole enchilada

This post is rather varied, so skip to the next section if what you see at first isn\'t what you\'re looking for.

So far as the price hike goes, a $5 price hike on boxed sets is a 20% increase. That\'s a bit more than inflation. When I first started playing 40K, minis came five to a blister for $7.50 (some old stock was still at $6.00 a pack). This was not much more than ten years ago. The same types of troops are now 2 for $8 (pre-price hike). That\'s a 167% increase. At the same time, space marine plastics were less than a dollar per. Now they\'re going to be $3 each. Now, without a doubt, the new plastics are nicer, but until my assault squads can get rhinos again, I\'ll not be a happy camper.

The Forge World that made the Warzone stuff is a US company that used to have a GW license. It was conveniently pulled right before GW started their own Forge World.

The Aliens boxed sets that one of the users is looking for are 25mm and were by Leading Edge Games. Hopefully, this makes them easier to find. I\'d try the Sentry Box or Dragon\'s Horde first.

 

[Sturmhalo]

Originally posted by Flashman14
In one-off games some flexibility in the rules is fine but when you\'re trying to adjudicate rules in a tournament setting amongst hundreds of players it\'s just critical that everybody follows the same rules.

That makes perfect sense, but when you\'re having a friendly game and a few beers you can relax the rules a little and allow for a bit of creative freedom. However, some gamers can\'t see life like that and insist that every single starchy rule be upheld and the army lists adhered to rigidly! You just can\'t help some folks.

 

[Flashman14]

ya . . I agree . . . those types can be found in all games - Historicals to Monopoly!

Also I understand why in their own stores, they only allow GW minis to be played on game nights . . . I think someone alse mentioned that somewheres

 

[vincegamer]

Rogue Trader Tourneys

Keep in mind all this bandying about of what is or is not allowed is for Rogue Trader tourneys. That is; a tournament that has sanctioning from GW and allows you to get ranked by the company.

If any of you wants to come over to my house and play Warhammer and you want to field a halfling army or a dark elf war eagle (or a halfing war eagle for that matter) thats great by me!
Just show me how you figured out the point value. I don\'t even care if your codex is not the same edition as the codex for my army. I\'m sure we can reason out any conflicts.

 

[RHerneson]

I have to say, I used to think I was a gamer, but I guess I was mainly a role-player. I sell a good amount on line and I don\'t get it. I wouln\'t pay what I get for a fig, but gods bless those folks that buy my stuff and do.
But you know what I get the best sales off of? Character figs. Most Warhammer players don\'t want to pay even reasonable prices for even fair quality paint. And honestly, the amount of time & work that goes into getting a simple GW unit assembled really makes it not worth my time when compared to what I can make painting hero figs.

As for the skewed market, I remember a lot of the same practices that GW is engaged in happening a few years ago by WotC. After while, the market will bear it out again and something new will emerge. The cracks are already apparent. My local hobby shop runs a 2:1 ratio of local to \'rogue trader\' tourneys and the local ones do better on average. People are getting tired of the poor support, random rulings, and assinine requirements. How do I know it\'ll pass? Easy, I use ground up Magic card for flocking sometimes just to remind myself.
lol

R

 

[Quintio]

Just spent the last hour reading all of these posts, and I commend everybody here for intelligent comments on the pricing strategies of that wargaming Behemoth, GW. (I too get blank stares when I tell those red-shirted geeks at the GW store that I\'m 80% painter, 20% gamer???)

Well here\'s my take. I\'m a Finance B of S, MBA with courses in corporate strategy. GW is the market leader, and has greater freedom to manipulate prices. The price structure probably breaks down into the cost of manufacture (raw materials/per unit) equipment (molds) development (artists salaries, commisioned artwork) game development (rules, playtesting) All of these things are a tiny margin. So what are you paying for?

Well, for one thing, everybody knows somebody who buys GW stuff, plays the games or used too. They have market penetration, and can charge a premium for this widespread brand acceptance.

However, the bulk of their costs come from product support. As they get bigger, you pay for retail leases, employee salaries, conventions, games days, tournaments, and lots of other SG&A expenses. I\'m actually curious how they can sell their product at current prices with all of this overhead.

BTW, if anyone in the UK could tell me where to find the British equivalent of GW financial statements, I can break all of this stuff down for you guys, and then everyone will know where all of our hard-earned cash is going I\'d be curious to find out also, since all of the preceding is merely speculation.

And one more thing. Check that banner ad on this site for a mail order place with 30% off rolling GW sales. Even with shipping it\'s a hell of a better buy.

And one more thing. New games like Dark Age (love this game!) have entry pricing. If you finally get fed up with GW, let your money do the talking!

 

[Mr.S.Marbo]

Quintio: You can find the y/e 2 June 2002 GW Annual report for investors on the web at http://investor.games-workshop.com/Results2002/index.htm

The two executive directors received a joint income of over half a million (£550,000 to be exact, including pension benefits which is roughly $852,500 US at todays exchange rate). Profit for the year after taxation was £8,588,000 (US$13,264,900), £3,816,000 (US$5,914,800) of that was given to shareholders as dividends, and £4,772,000 (US$7,396,600) profits were retained for the financial year. Turnover (sales) was £108,557,000(US$168,263,350). (figures are rounded).

I also just picked out another company at random to compare (HMV Media Group who own HMV music stores and Waterstones Book stores in the UK). One director there was \"earning\" (makes me feel sick) £800,000+ (not including the shares he had) they had sales of £1,654,500,000, and after tax profit of £30,663,000. Difference seems to be that about 8% of GW\'s sales were kept as profit, whereas about 2% of HMV\'s were kept as profit, but the directors at HMV received money far in excess of what the GW directors received.

Well this is hardly scientific and it was boring to look up (and everything is done roughly)..... If you have read this far then I guess you have done well to keep awake. I\'m sure Quintio can break everything down a bit better and pick out my mistakes if needed.

 

[Quintio]

Thanks for the the Info. Since I don\'t have a lot of time to do a thorough analysis (and will probably bore everyone with the specifics) Here is the skinny on GW Inc.

Aggressive expansion in the U.S. seems to be a strategy, with sales growth the smallest increase (4% US v. 30% continental Europe) and instead of buying miniatures from GW, I might just buy some common stock! This company is very profitable, and as far as salaries go, it appears that the execs do far better than the designers, artists, etc.

I hate to say it, but it appears that the artists, game developers, are getting shorted at the expense of executive compensation. I don\'t see any good reason why GW has to raise prices, if anything, they could lower prices acroos the board (and I won\'t get into specific numbers, nothing scientific!) and still be very profitable.

So why pursue this pricing policy? Because disposable income among the key demographic (male teens), as someone noted earlier, is still at the highest level it has ever been. Unfortuantley for us older working people (OK, I\'m only 25, but I work and go to school full time) who have to worry about utilities, insurance, and other costs, it hurts us disproportianately.

You can argue that GW doesn\'t have the best quality product, but what they do have is a developed, well-supported game system, which has endured and continues to be the largest wargames company in the world.

From a business perspective, the company is doing great. From a consumer perspective...and a hobbyists perspective...well, I think if they can afford to keep their prices low, they should do it. After all, they are just molded pieces of metal and plastic. Model companies llike Tamiya have low cost models beacuse there is greater competition, they use old molds (historical models, once they are cast, can be cast from the masters from up to 20 yrs!)

However, here is the positive note: as more companies realize what a great opportunity the gaming industry is...more companies=more competition=lower prices. Soo...in conclusion...support those smaller companies! Why doesn\'t GW allow anything other than GW stuff at all its events? Hurts GW, that\'s why.

BTW, The whole LOTR licensing agreement...very profitable. Too bad those minis are crap IMHO.

signing off...Quint

 

[Con EL Pueblo]

Just a quick note...

This is just a try at an explanation to why the prices on GW blisters vary as much as they do. I don\'t think that this issue came up earlier in the discussion, and frankly, I\'m to lazy to look it up! (6 pages? you must be nuts...)

Well, anyway, think of this; if they dumped the price of, say, a Dwarf Lord, so that it would cost the same as, say, a single Ironbreaker miniature, would GW sell more Dwarf Lords? Hell no! There are only so many Dwarf Lords needed in a Dwarf army, and even if a few more players joined the hobby, because of the price lowering, it wouldn\'t make up for it! I\'m very very sure that GW has made the calculus needed to make sure that this is the case, and I\'m to bad at English to explain myself further, so I\'ll just scurry away now...


\"Vernon! That light! ...The Jeffersons\' dog is back!\"