Rant on dutch Identification law...

[Medved]

in slovakia you are not supposed to take this id card out of the country with you. it is the property of the state. my wife had to nominate a guardian of this card until she returns back there. the registration process is a bummer......by hey its not as bad as the fact that should i wish to go over to live there and take slovak citizenship is till have to re-apply for my \"pemanent visa\" every 5 years sheesh!
pozdravujem vsetky slovany and pokojte si prosim! nie ste stale pod comunismus, teraz ste vo eropskej unii.......to je nieco horsi !lol

 

[Mordred]

I think this is also a consequence of the visible move toward the right that dutch politics have taken. I think the country is really taking a turn after the recent incidents there.

I don\'t think that they do it for the easy buck, because the occasional 50 euros are used to pay for the cops who do the surveys. I think this is a useless rule against illegal immigrants.

 

[LouisCypher]

in Italy you have to carry a personal identification document with you: ID card or passport. driving licence is not considered a personal identification document, so it doesn\'t count.

you have to make a new id card every 5 years and it costs something like 10 euros or so, and you have to take new pics every time...

that\'s boring but i get used to

Luca

 

[Skrit]

As I already have my ID with me all the time I don\'t really mind it if they had very good reasons, but as said before I think it\'s got a lot to do with getting more money.

Another thing I don\'t like is that you have to have it with you when you\'re 14 years or older. I work with children from the age of 12 to 20 who have the thinking capacity of children aged 6 and older. (basically they are behind 4 to 8 years)

Most of the time they look older than their \'real\' age. Now \"normal\" children their age would not panic straight away and would reason with the police when they are stopped. But these children have emotional problems you couldn\'t imagine. I fear that a lot of them will get into trouble (emotionally and maybe even physically) if they were to be stopped. They don\'t have the capabillities to communicate in a normal matter and will either shut down or respond agressively.

I think they should have raisen the bar a bit concerning the age. Say, let it start when you become 21. Or if you turned 18 you get slowly into the program.

I hope you understand what I mean by this all and in advance already: sorry if I\'ve made some spelling mistakes!

P.s. Also sorry for the long rant!

 

[sniffles]

It\'s interesting to hear people overseas discussing such issues and saying the same things people here in the States say about similar situations.

As other have already mentioned, most US citizens already have to have some kind of identification. You will be arrested almost anywhere if the police stop you and you don\'t have ID. In most places a driver\'s license is sufficient.

I don\'t find anything wrong with wanting people to identify themselves. Suppose you get injured in an accident and you have no ID, so the hospital can\'t contact your family?

It would, however, be disturbing if you had to have another form of required ID in addition to your driver\'s license. It would be *really* disturbing if the police could fine you on the spot. Fortunately most US police don\'t accept bribes.

OTOH, I liked the medical ID card someone mentioned. That would be very useful. Of course, that would require the US to have a national health care system, and heaven forfend that we should try something like that! lol

 

[Evil Dave]

I think we should have an ID system for known sex offenders and the such, have it branded onto their foreheads.
I really doubt many girls would go out with a guy who had \"Rapist\" tattooed across their head, or \'Child Molester\".lol

 

[dauber22]

Originally posted by Evil Dave
I think we should have an ID system for known sex offenders and the such, have it branded onto their foreheads.
I really doubt many girls would go out with a guy who had \"Rapist\" tattooed across their head, or \'Child Molester\".lol

Oh, Jeez, thanks Dave!!!!! As if I don\'t have enough troble getting a date now!!!
lol:bouncy:lol:bouncy::innocent::bouncy:lol:bouncy:lol

 

[doktorziplok]

As other have already mentioned, most US citizens already have to have some kind of identification. You will be arrested almost anywhere if the police stop you and you don\'t have ID. In most places a driver\'s license is sufficient.

excuse me? where do you live? here in america you don\'t have to show id to any police officer unless you are being accused of a crime (for example speeding). if you are walking down the street and a police officer wants you to identify yourself, the only thing you have to do is say (not present an id card) your legal name and nothing else (unless you know you are in trouble, and then you\'re protected by the 5th amendment and don\'t have to say anything at all). there was a huge debate about these \"tary stops\" (sp?) here this last summer, the supreme court declared random id searches to be unconstitutional. might be worth doing a bit of research.

 

[supervike]

I am already slipping down the slope...

Originally posted by Herb the bitter

Making me consult google again eh? Here\'s what I found(not that I necessarily agree with them). Their rationale I believe is that drunk drivers are a greater violation of people\'s rights than police searches(as over 13,000 people die per year in alcohol related crashes). People getting drunk, high etc, in their own homes are only hazardous to themselves.


\"In a 6-to-3 decision, the Court held that the roadblocks did not violate the Fourth Amendment. The Court noted that \"no one can seriously dispute the magnitude of the drunken driving problem or the States\' interest in eradicating it.\" The Court then found that \"the weight bearing on the other scale--the measure of the intrusion on motorists stopped briefly at sobriety checkpoints--is slight.\" The Court also found that empirical evidence supported the effectiveness of the program.\"

Well, I can\'t doubt that for combating drunken driving it is effective, and it definately saves lives.

But it still makes me wonder why, on the two times I have been stopped for the \'safety checks\', has it been in a residential neighborhood both on a Saturday morning? Wouldn\'t staking out an intersection near the bars on a Friday night give better results??

 

[Jappobra]

Well, I\'m not going to have my passport with me until they declare that ll id-card thiefs will have a death sentence. In the Netherlands a passport costs between 30-40 euros.

Illegal people give around €500,- for one passport, so it\'s a golden buissiness to steal passports, and there\'s a big market for stolen passports, they guess there are between 300.000 and 1.000.000 illegal inhabitants over here(and without the illgal people there are over 16.000.000 people living here).

But I get there point, Holland is a place in wich many illegal people, refugees and terrorist could lay low. In most bigger citys there are ~2500-3000 people living per km^2. And the average population densety was 400 people per Km^2. The only countries that do have a bigger population denstiy are China and India.

And because the population density is so big there is a need to know who is walking on your streets and who\'s not. So it comes with sacrifices but as long as I know I\'m not doing anythin illegal I\'m not carying my passport.

 

[Mosch]

I remember it ws compulsory to carry your ID with you in a part of Germany some time ago. This area was called \"DDR\" and maybe you have heard of it

Actaully, I have no idea if I ahve to carry any ID with me. I know that I do, for simple reasons - if anything does happen to me, it is easier to identify me and get on my families nerve if they want my organs to be donated
I always have, in my wallet, my passport, my student chip card, my driver\'s license, my health insurance card (you know, a thingy that says where I am insured and who to bill), my X-Ray-pass, my vaccine-pass (that was another guessed one...) and the pass that identifies me as a soldier. I just found it actually, think I\'ll go and give it back some time as I am no soldier anymore
I can\'t really see why I should be checked randomly and I do not want any data about me saved in a way that is impossible for me to take insight in. Of course that is doen anyway, but you can limit it.
We do not have roadblocks in Germany, but sometimes the police will ask you to stop your car and do an \"Allgemeine Verkehrskontrolle\" (traffic control). Simply show them your driver\'s license and the car papers and they bid you a good day - of course this is a simple money making thing, but as long as the police stays friendly, I tolerate it (and if you don\'t piss of the guys, they won\'t be asses. Simple really.).
I understand why it is compulsory to be able to show that you are allowed to drive (3 tons at 50 kilometers can do a lot of damage) and that the car is yours, but why should I have another ID to show that I really am me? After I have forged six cards, why should I not forge the last one?

Meh.

 

[sniffles]

@Evil Dave - have you ever read \"Snow Crash\"? I loved the idea of having \"Poor Impulse Control\" tattooed on someone\'s forehead! lol

@doktorziplok - I guess I watch \"Cops\" too much. They\'re always arresting people for having no ID - but it\'s true that they usually had some other reason for approaching them in the first place!

 

[Sand Rat]

Originally posted by Herb the bitter
I have heard of the road blocks here in Wisconsin too, but I think they are just to catch drunk drivers. Given that Russ Feingold was the only senator to vote against the \"Patriot Act\", he\'d probably crap his pants if we were required to carry ID\'s.

According to the 1979 Supreme Court ruling in \"Brown v. Texas\" police can\'t ask for identification without probable cause(as this is a violation of the fourth amendment). So they can\'t stop you just to ask for ID.

Umm Herb - around some parts of the South (Louisiana especially) Just Cause is defined as Just Cuz - as in Just Cuz I could stop you.

 

[dauber22]

Originally posted by steelcult

Umm Herb - around some parts of the South (Louisiana especially) Just Cause is defined as Just Cuz - as in Just Cuz I could stop you.

Don\'t let \'em kid you. It ain\'t just in the South!!! See my earlier post. That took place not in the South or Deep South. That took place in that bastion of Liberalism, Freedom, and Democracy: New York. The only difference I\'ve found between the two constabularies was that they were much more cordial and friendly in the South when they were preparing to violate your riights.

 

[Herb the bitter]

Originally posted by steelcult

Umm Herb - around some parts of the South (Louisiana especially) Just Cause is defined as Just Cuz - as in Just Cuz I could stop you.

Sorry, I wasn\'t trying to say it didn\'t happen, just that technically it\'s not supposed to happen.

Funny story from Louisiana when my brother and his wife(she\'s a dental hygenist) lived there. An old lady didn\'t want my brother\'s wife to clean her teeth after she found out my bro\'s wife was a \"Yankee\". The dentist did eventually persuade her it was okay though.

 

[paintingploddy]

Speaking from the law enforcement standpoint, beware letting anyone know your personal details, even your closest friends. I\'ve spent hours upon hours when some poor pleb ends up in court because their flatmate used their name and date of birth. It can take two or three court appearances to sort out sometimes. Anything which stops someone else using my identity is worth it.

On the road law stand point, when you are driving a car or riding public transport here you have less rights than if you are walking down the street. Our duly elected government has long decided that some aspects of public safety out weigh personal freedoms. We can make you do preliminary breath tests or random drug checks if we find you sitting in a car with the keys in the ignition. Might sound harsh, but in the last 25 years we have reduced deaths on the road from 1000 in an year (twice as many as we lost in five years in Vietnam) to less than 450, despite the number of cars going up four fold. Having picked up the wreckage (car and people) I would say I prefer our way to that in the US.

PP

 

[darthfoley]

Originally posted by Alexi_Z
You dont like Russia? What are you doing here?

I ask a similar question of some people here in America every day.

I always get in trouble.

lol