Sculpting vs Computers

[darkartminiatures]

In a recent White Dwarf artical it mentions how alot of design work is rendered through the use of computer programs. Whats everyones take on this. Do you think sculptors will become outdated and with that, obsolete as more and more tasks are left for computer programs?

 

[marineboy]

Until AI becomes a rforce within art, no program will be able to replace the human factor --creation will remain within the realm of man (or woman, for you gals out there ).

Until computer can create style and atmosphere, we simple human are going to have to do that for them. Concept art and 3D renderings will just have to come from us protoplasmics.

CNC modelling and sculpting is another matter completely, though. We\'ll undoubteldly see more work being realized through CNC.

 

[Legacy Account]

GW plastics are all going to involve CAD from now on - either directly from 3D renders or from sculpts that are scanned and edited. It\'s going to be an interesting time - the Eldar stuff that they\'ve shown glimpses of looks ok...

 

[james9487]

Yea, I read an article in a White Dwarf about that. In it they talked about having computers sculpt repetive things like chain and symbols, but have they actually been able to sculpt full figures yet? Anyway, I doubt sculptors will ever be replaced as people like Allan Carasco would be hard to beat. Plus only huge companies would have that kind of ability.

 

[Ogrebane]

Can CNC do spheres tho or will they turn out with lots of straight edges. I think maybe the big boys might go CNC but they are really only good for certain things. I still like looking at greens so I hope there will always be sculpters.

 

[Shawn R. L.]

It\'s one more step from human to human contact. For me, one of the real joy\'s of any art is that some PERSON made this and I am able to enjoy what their vision was, appreciate their skill and with painting, interact with it. CG stuff can be fantastic in it\'s accuracy, detail and such but it will NEVER replace the human element. I see alot of comic books are now done with some computer art program. Yes, a human is controlling it at least, but there is a certain something about seeing the way the person layed the ink down, instead of a simple gradiated fill function. When it comes to art, I tend to be a bit of a purist.

 

[quadrille]

A lot of people seem to think that just because you\'re doing something in a computer you aren\'t a real artist.. it\'s like if they think you just have to tell the computer what to do and it will do it for you (please note I don\'t accuse anyone in particular, it\'s just an attitude I\'ve encountered on more than one occasion)... Being a 3d modeller myself I know that couldn\'t be further from the truth. Modeling in a 3d software is just another technique, it still takes the same artistic sense as sculpting minis. Both techniques have their pros and cons. A 3d software can be daunting to learn whereas mini sculpting is very straight forward. On the other hand, once you\'ve learned how to handle the program a lot of things are easier to do in the computer than they would be manually (eg. symmetrical shapes, sharp edges a.s.o.).

As marineboy already stated, artists will never become obsolete. Professional sculpting will probably become more and more digitalized though. That might mean it\'ll be harder for the amateurs who can\'t afford $10,000 or more equipment and software to match the quality of professional sculptors.

On a side note it appears as if the market wants the industry to take this step, just look at scibor\'s auctions. Now I don\'t know how much time he spends on them, but the prices he gets are jaw droppingly high. Obviously people are impressed by the computer designed parts on his models. Traditional sculptors like me can only watch silently in awe (and envy).

 

[Legacy Account]

The 100% CAD minis are on their way - WD has a pic of a new plastic weapons platform that looks to have been done in this way. The new Eldar scouts look a bit digital too, although that might just be me:duh:

I have no objections to the tech whatsoever as long as the finished product is quality. In fact I can see it producing some awesome technological designs - it\'ll be great for armour and weapons etc.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Sure..when the price comes down... Yes GW can afford the 1 million plus Pound investement into the system, but 99% of everyone else can\'t

Article on GW CNC process and investment

Now many are exploreing using programs like Rhino 3D to sculpt machines on the PC and then use Rapid Protyping printers to make a model in wax. It has some promises but I think most stuff still tends to look pretty boxy..like reapers CAV line of miniatures.

 

[Legacy Account]

Come on. Most of Reaper\'s stuff is cack.

 

[Klute]

I use 3d software like Poser to test out poses and anatomy for doing sculpts.

Does this mean Im cheating because I dont draw them by hand ??

Just a little analogy.

I think the CNC stuff is one route forward for the big companies and lets face it probably only GW has the bucks to invest in it fully.
We already have mass produced plastic figures that are really just a bridge from metal casts to the CNC stuff.

 

[Gypsy]

Don\'t know how to feel about it. It has a slightly bitter taste to it but I can\'t explain why. Maybe it\'s the whole industrial vs. handmade thing that makes me frown. Looked at objectively the computer stuff is probably on the same level as the hand sculpted minis, art-wise. And the quality is most likely even better, straighter edges, more details and all that.
O, I don\'t know.

 

[darkartminiatures]

Just my luck. I always get into something when its going out of fashion. I can see that folk know more about this than me. Its good to know that not eveyone can afford these systems as i personally prefer man-made sculpts but on the other hand as someone as mentioned, it would be better for the smooth, precise shapes of objects. Does this mean that a wise sculptor should start learning this method? or can we say that their will always be free-hand sculptors that wouldn\'t suffer from this? I just think its all a little too scary

 

[freakinacage]

Originally posted by Spacemunkie
I have no objections to the tech whatsoever as long as the finished product is quality. In fact I can see it producing some awesome technological designs - it\'ll be great for armour and weapons etc.

i agree. i think it\'ll be a while before normal (ie not vehicles etc) figures are sculpted entirely from cad. even so, there\'s still a person designing it. it\'s just like using a different putty if you ask me. an alternative route to the same ending.

and hopefully, we should get an icrease in quality and decrease in price of plastic vehicles/terrain etc. ok maybe not both but an increase in quality at least!

 

[degra]

i´m not posting a lot in here, but this is a matter on which i was thinking quite a lot of times...

Do you think sculptors will become outdated and with that, obsolete as more and more tasks are left for computer programs?

sculptors will never be outdated, as someone has to make the 3d sculpting work.
but i don´t think that handmodelled figurines will last a long time in gaming industry. gary morley told me, that GW never intended to do somekind of \"art\" (as rackham) than rather to make somekind of applied or commercial art - so anyhow ,these produced figurines are toys not more, not less and they will be produced in a more economic way, with a good quality.

you can really compare this with the introduction of fotography vs painting in the 19 century.
expressed in a very simple and naiv way customers comissioned naturalistic paintings over centuries more for a need to somekind of representation of things than for their \"artistic\" value.
fotography was way cheaper than a handpainted easel painting
so compared with the sculpture of toys (figurines) it becomes the same thing: customers are more often buying figurines for there gaming table than for there \"artistic\" value and if digital sculpting makes the job cheaper than a handmodeller...well than it should be so, and personally, as an aspiring sculptor (with no digital skills) i don´t have any problems with this.

A lot of people seem to think that just because you\'re doing something in a computer you aren\'t a real artist.

the eternal fight on the definition of \"art\" and\"artist\"...lol...sry..i´m studing on a university of applied \"arts\" and we have at least 1800 artist in here...well no, there 1748, as 52 are restaurers (among them i am...) .lollollol

Being a 3d modeller myself I know that couldn\'t be further from the truth. Modeling in a 3d software is just another technique, it still takes the same artistic sense as sculpting minis.

don´t be annoyed about not being accepted as an \"artist\" - even ron mueck isn´t accepted by some art historien as an \"artist\":rolleyeslol

anyhow there isn´t excisting one \"art\" - just a lot of different forms of it

best wishes and happy sculpting with fimo, green stuff and bits and bytes!

edgar

 

[minimaker]

Originally posted by Dragon Forge DesignIt has some promises but I think most stuff still tends to look pretty boxy

That\'s because of the designs, not the technique. Have a look at this:
http://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt/ Curves, curves, and more curves. All \"printed\" directly from a CAD design into it\'s metal form.
Choosing a boxy design can have two reasons. First of course, because you like the looks, second because just like with manual work, straight surfaces are easier to finish. The CAV models are made using a rapid prototyping method which leaves a stepped surface which needs to be sanded smooth before it\'s done. You can also see this type of staircasing on Batsheba\'s sculpts. By the way, he did the printing for the first CAV models by John Bear if I remember right.

GW uses a CAD/CAM installation with a CNC cuttter. CNC cutters have been used in mouldmaking for years already and if you have a look at model kits, plastic soldiers, Kinder toys, mobile phones casings, etc., etc. you can see what these machines can do (sometimes in combination with a few other machines since they are limited by the size and shape of the cutter head). So technically the machines have no real problems with making 28mm figures. @Ogrebane: spheres are no problem whatsoever.

You can\'t really see the CAV and GW route as the same. The CAV route is the one that is suitable for smaller companies and smaller runs. The GW method is for injection moulding production where you can have a much higher investment.

As to CAD (and other 3D programs), think of Battlestar Galactica, Star wars, Babylon 5, Shrek, LOTR, etc. Anything can be define as a 3D model.

My view on this? All this is just another tool and just like with traditional sculpting you will need to go through the training to learn it. Digital sculpting will also require design skill, knowledge of production methods, anatomy, etc., etc. Both have quite a learnign curve and their own advantages/disadvantages. You will in the end have people who can do either one of the two or both.
What I expext you will see is that more 3D digital sculptors will join the traditional ones.

There have been more threads on this subject. Here are a few:
http://www.planetfigure.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4360
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=18129 (check remarks by ironmammoth)
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=41809
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=39977 (3D CAD)
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=38508
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=12889
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=10483
http://www.heresyminiatures.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=178
http://www.heresyminiatures.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2730
And several over at 1listsculpting.
(anybody have others to add)

By the way, I\'m a CAD instructor/project engineer in my dayjob and do miniature sculpting as a hobby. That\'s why I\'m familiar with the background of both.

Bye, Ming-Hua

 

[Infidel Castro]

It\'s the future and unavoidable. I can\'t help but look at those CNC pieces on that link and see spaceships in my head. Real ones. Made from giant CNC machines. Cool as you like! Vive la futur!

 

[Legacy Account]

Definitely the future. The detail of CNC minis will be awesome and is certainly the way forward. There\'s still a flesh-bag sat at the end of the mouse/keyboard doing the hard work after all....

 

[Modderrhu]

Good analogy with painting vs. photography, degra. Photography didn\'t replace painting, it evolved into its own unique art form, and forced painting to take a different role in society. I suspect the same will happen with CNC machines. Hand-sculpting and machine-sculpting will take different paths.

 

[RedSevenBlue]

What I have to say about this is that we have alot of people who scupt using the software and equipment. The most familiar is Scibor, be he sculpts both ways usually. That sounded wrong for a second if you put goes instead of sculpts lol, Scibor is pretty good, but slowly, the price his minis go for is slowly declining because almost everyone has seen it and it sorta gets stale over time.