darthfoley
Active member
Ah, but can you watch the second one?
And will you be able to watch the third one, if Guv\'nor Ahnuld still goes ahead with it?
The Return of The King
- Thread starter slidedog
- Start date
Ah, but can you watch the second one?
And will you be able to watch the third one, if Guv\'nor Ahnuld still goes ahead with it?
darthfoley
Active member
Originally posted by mouse
PS: Why didn\'t PJ make a trilogy on Dragonlance....the waiting....will I get to view it in my lifetime....sigh...
I don\'t count on that ever happening. I wish it would, but don\'t hold your breath.
I realy loved the whole trilogy and i love the books even more. I think Jackson did a great work.
@JimG: I can\'t follow your argumentations. It\'s not like in your examples at all. Jackson hasn\'t destroyed anything. You can still read the book and nobody will force you to watch the films. It\'s not like the Buddahs, wich are destroyed for all times. I think it more arrogant to critisize Jackson, who worked with so much love and passion (wich nobody can deny) on these films.
Sure, i don\'t like some of the changes as well, like this stupid scene when Aragorn fell of the cliff in part two (yeah, he\'s dead for sure!!!). But i think with the extended editions, they found a good way to make everyone happy. There are so many scenes in there which the people who read the books will love. Like the scenes with Faramir, from who i was realy disapointed in the cinema version of part two. His character is so much better in the extended edition and there is a scene with old man willow in it, for those who missed Tom in Part one. I don\'t think that they will put the scouring of the shire in the RotK extended, because they would have to cut some of the current scenes, wich they never did in the past extended editions. I miss that part as well, because its on of my favorites in the books, but i think what they did worked quite good. At least i was glad that the film continued after the crown ceremony, wich is the end of the hearing books for example. But they will defenitly put the lovestory with Faramir and Eowyn in it.
At least you have to remember, that this is the interpretation from Peter Jackson of the LotR and i\'m thankfull that he shared it with the world.
@JimG: I can\'t follow your argumentations. It\'s not like in your examples at all. Jackson hasn\'t destroyed anything. You can still read the book and nobody will force you to watch the films. It\'s not like the Buddahs, wich are destroyed for all times. I think it more arrogant to critisize Jackson, who worked with so much love and passion (wich nobody can deny) on these films.
Sure, i don\'t like some of the changes as well, like this stupid scene when Aragorn fell of the cliff in part two (yeah, he\'s dead for sure!!!). But i think with the extended editions, they found a good way to make everyone happy. There are so many scenes in there which the people who read the books will love. Like the scenes with Faramir, from who i was realy disapointed in the cinema version of part two. His character is so much better in the extended edition and there is a scene with old man willow in it, for those who missed Tom in Part one. I don\'t think that they will put the scouring of the shire in the RotK extended, because they would have to cut some of the current scenes, wich they never did in the past extended editions. I miss that part as well, because its on of my favorites in the books, but i think what they did worked quite good. At least i was glad that the film continued after the crown ceremony, wich is the end of the hearing books for example. But they will defenitly put the lovestory with Faramir and Eowyn in it.
At least you have to remember, that this is the interpretation from Peter Jackson of the LotR and i\'m thankfull that he shared it with the world.
Going back to Arwen\'s \'increased role\' in the movies, lets take a look at something Glorfindel only appears in The Fellowship. With something as big as translating these books into a movie you need to keep audience attention, and a disappearing rescuer in the first movie is a bad cinematic act, using Arwen, for the movie makes sense.
Eowyn starts to feel all \'mushy\' for Aragorn, why doesn\'t he reciprocate, because of Arwen, in the books she\'s mentioned as the great love of his life, in the movies Peter Jackson is showing how much he loves her.
Lets also take something into account, I would hazard a guess that the majority of people who visit this site read Si-Fi / Fantasy. But I\'ll bet that the majority of the people who\'ve watched The Lord of the Rings haven\'t read it. in order to make a movie this big, flow properly you sometimes have to make sacrifices. Peter and Fran Jackson have done what was right to translate a three volume epic into a great trilogy of movies.
As was said on the extended version DVD of The Two Towers, If Tolkien had submitted the books today the editors would have made him rewrite certain sections in order to make it easier to read. Much as I love the Books, I still find it very hard to get through The Fellowship of the Ring. And the discontinuous timelines are very difficult to follow, jumping from the battle at the Black Gate to the start of Frodo\'s journey through Morder really through me the first time.
I will admit that the first time I saw the Fellowship I was disappointed in the way Frodo was portrayed as a bit of a Wimp, however I got over it and now have enjoyed a movie experience that I doubt will ever be matched (at least in my lifetime) for it\'s complexity.
As for Saruman\'s scene\'s being cut. I read that Peter Jackson only finished the last of the post production work Two Weeks before the premiere. Which goes a way to explaining why there is an extended version of the movies. So I\'m hoping that Saruman (Christopher Lee) gets the face to face with Gandalf.
(Right thats my waffling over with!)
Eowyn starts to feel all \'mushy\' for Aragorn, why doesn\'t he reciprocate, because of Arwen, in the books she\'s mentioned as the great love of his life, in the movies Peter Jackson is showing how much he loves her.
Lets also take something into account, I would hazard a guess that the majority of people who visit this site read Si-Fi / Fantasy. But I\'ll bet that the majority of the people who\'ve watched The Lord of the Rings haven\'t read it. in order to make a movie this big, flow properly you sometimes have to make sacrifices. Peter and Fran Jackson have done what was right to translate a three volume epic into a great trilogy of movies.
As was said on the extended version DVD of The Two Towers, If Tolkien had submitted the books today the editors would have made him rewrite certain sections in order to make it easier to read. Much as I love the Books, I still find it very hard to get through The Fellowship of the Ring. And the discontinuous timelines are very difficult to follow, jumping from the battle at the Black Gate to the start of Frodo\'s journey through Morder really through me the first time.
I will admit that the first time I saw the Fellowship I was disappointed in the way Frodo was portrayed as a bit of a Wimp, however I got over it and now have enjoyed a movie experience that I doubt will ever be matched (at least in my lifetime) for it\'s complexity.
As for Saruman\'s scene\'s being cut. I read that Peter Jackson only finished the last of the post production work Two Weeks before the premiere. Which goes a way to explaining why there is an extended version of the movies. So I\'m hoping that Saruman (Christopher Lee) gets the face to face with Gandalf.
(Right thats my waffling over with!)
loved it...
I went to see it the night it came out in NZ, and had just finished re-reading ROTK a couple of days beforehand. What I\'ve found in the films is that even though certain scenes are altered/deleted/added, that the essence of the story is there. To be honest I never saw the point of Bombadil, while he\'s an important character in Middle Earth he\'s irrelevant to the story of the Ring. I don\'t for one second think that the entire storyline is justified just to show how the hobbits got some swords... It\'s a nice bit of history for the world, and in the appendices there\'s some speculation about whose tomb it is that\'s all very interesting, but really just a long diversion from the meat of the story.
While I wasn\'t overly fond of Arwen (never liked the character much in the books), it was important that she show up occasionally because let\'s face it, Eowyn was so much more appealing . The shallowness of Eowyn\'s feelings for Aragorn is played up much more in the books than in the film (she\'s less interested in him than in glory and kingship or at least a dramatic death), so in the films it seems like she\'d be much more Aragorn\'s kinda girl. Although he did grow up with Arwen so who knows.
The only things that did bug me were a couple of effects glitches (to be expected I guess when somethings being worked on to the 11th hour - TT had a couple too that were fixed by the time the DVD came out), and the scene where apparently Arwen\'s going to die if he doesn\'t win... Bah. I much preferred the book version where Elrond got all over-protective Dad and said she couldn\'t possibly marry anyone who wasn\'t king of the world...
Didn\'t have a problem with the emotional hobbit scenes - I think it\'s perhaps something most modern movies have conditioned us for, that every intense emotion has a sexual level - well, bollocks. They grew up together, went off and had incredibly traumatic experiences, and then found out the other wasn\'t dead/wasn\'t evil/the world was saved etc. If that doesn\'t deserve a bit of hugging and crying then nothing does.
My hopes for the extended version are more of the background stuff with Denethor (like his use of one of the Palantirs), maybe something of the Houses of Healing stuff with Faramir and Eowyn (which while not being strictly necessary is kinda nice anyway, although a bit silly - shieldmaiden to domestic chick in two easy steps! you too can do this for only 4 payments of 19.99...), and Christopher Lee\'s Saruman scene because he\'s cool and it was planned to start off the 3rd film (according to the TT background stuff), so it\'s definitely been filmed.
I hope they didn\'t bother with the Scouring, because while it was a cool scene in the book it was also part of about a third of the book that was spent wrapping things up in a slow and methodical manner. For the film I think it would suck - major climax, resolution, peaceful ending... then another, smaller climax? I think it would completely mess up the flow. The books didn\'t *have* flow so it\'s not an issue there.
I\'m still unconvinced about the Warg attack in TT, but cmon - it\'s a story, it\'s not sacrilege to change stuff. People act like Tolkien was some kind of sacred cow - heck, he went back and changed The Hobbit concepts for Gollum after writing LOTR. PJ made it a great movie. I\'ve *seen* the Bakshi cartoon that was faithful to the book, and it was pretty dull.
Anyway, as far as trilogies go, I felt much happier after this one than after the Matrix (really enjoyed the movies, but it felt a bit flat), and I think perhaps George Lucas is going to have some trouble making the next Star Wars film beat this one .
I went to see it the night it came out in NZ, and had just finished re-reading ROTK a couple of days beforehand. What I\'ve found in the films is that even though certain scenes are altered/deleted/added, that the essence of the story is there. To be honest I never saw the point of Bombadil, while he\'s an important character in Middle Earth he\'s irrelevant to the story of the Ring. I don\'t for one second think that the entire storyline is justified just to show how the hobbits got some swords... It\'s a nice bit of history for the world, and in the appendices there\'s some speculation about whose tomb it is that\'s all very interesting, but really just a long diversion from the meat of the story.
While I wasn\'t overly fond of Arwen (never liked the character much in the books), it was important that she show up occasionally because let\'s face it, Eowyn was so much more appealing
. The shallowness of Eowyn\'s feelings for Aragorn is played up much more in the books than in the film (she\'s less interested in him than in glory and kingship or at least a dramatic death), so in the films it seems like she\'d be much more Aragorn\'s kinda girl. Although he did grow up with Arwen so who knows.The only things that did bug me were a couple of effects glitches (to be expected I guess when somethings being worked on to the 11th hour - TT had a couple too that were fixed by the time the DVD came out), and the scene where apparently Arwen\'s going to die if he doesn\'t win... Bah. I much preferred the book version where Elrond got all over-protective Dad and said she couldn\'t possibly marry anyone who wasn\'t king of the world...
Didn\'t have a problem with the emotional hobbit scenes - I think it\'s perhaps something most modern movies have conditioned us for, that every intense emotion has a sexual level - well, bollocks. They grew up together, went off and had incredibly traumatic experiences, and then found out the other wasn\'t dead/wasn\'t evil/the world was saved etc. If that doesn\'t deserve a bit of hugging and crying then nothing does
. My hopes for the extended version are more of the background stuff with Denethor (like his use of one of the Palantirs), maybe something of the Houses of Healing stuff with Faramir and Eowyn (which while not being strictly necessary is kinda nice anyway, although a bit silly - shieldmaiden to domestic chick in two easy steps! you too can do this for only 4 payments of 19.99...), and Christopher Lee\'s Saruman scene because he\'s cool and it was planned to start off the 3rd film (according to the TT background stuff), so it\'s definitely been filmed.
I hope they didn\'t bother with the Scouring, because while it was a cool scene in the book it was also part of about a third of the book that was spent wrapping things up in a slow and methodical manner. For the film I think it would suck - major climax, resolution, peaceful ending... then another, smaller climax? I think it would completely mess up the flow. The books didn\'t *have* flow so it\'s not an issue there.
I\'m still unconvinced about the Warg attack in TT, but cmon - it\'s a story, it\'s not sacrilege to change stuff. People act like Tolkien was some kind of sacred cow - heck, he went back and changed The Hobbit concepts for Gollum after writing LOTR. PJ made it a great movie. I\'ve *seen* the Bakshi cartoon that was faithful to the book, and it was pretty dull.
Anyway, as far as trilogies go, I felt much happier after this one than after the Matrix (really enjoyed the movies, but it felt a bit flat), and I think perhaps George Lucas is going to have some trouble making the next Star Wars film beat this one
.
borg
Administrator
We also have to remember that the first 3 Star Wars movies were uncontested, the latest ones have to compete with LOTR and Harry Potter, just bad timing really, as one set of stories have nothing to do with the other. Sure, both are great stories and are fictional, but they are totally different genre.
I enjoy all of them, especially Harry Potter, believe it or not, everytime I flip the channels and I see Harry Potter, I seem to stop and watch it again and again...
I enjoy all of them, especially Harry Potter, believe it or not, everytime I flip the channels and I see Harry Potter, I seem to stop and watch it again and again...
vincegamer
Active member
Yes. In fact, if you bought it you could burn it. People may hate you for it but it\'s your right.
As to your examples, as has been pointed out, all of your examples involve destruction or mutilation of the original. Tolkein\'s original is locked safely away at Oxford.
K
klute_in_the_valute
Guest
I really liked all the Lotr films but after seeing the third one tonight I cant wait to get stuck into the book again.
holding...
....holding....arghh...holding....blue in the face.....argghh.....Why? What\'s the wait?!?!?
Originally posted by darthfoley
Originally posted by mouse
PS: Why didn\'t PJ make a trilogy on Dragonlance....the waiting....will I get to view it in my lifetime....sigh...
I don\'t count on that ever happening. I wish it would, but don\'t hold your breath.
....holding....arghh...holding....blue in the face.....argghh.....Why? What\'s the wait?!?!?
LordofthePit
New member
Yay! The new `the movie is different from the book´ thread!
I believe that in the discussion last year, I promised to burn my DVD sets of FOTR and TTT if the scouring of the Shire wasn´t in the movie. I don´t think I´ll do that, though. I already knew they wouldn´t be in it and like slidedog said the end was long enough (I would really like it to be on the DVD though). Frodo leaving for the Havens and Sam saying ´well, I´m back.´was already more than I expected.
All in all I think this one had the least changes from the original, or maybe I just expected there to be more. Except from the ´Frodo sending Sam away´ scene the adaptations weren´t so bad.
Oh, did I mention I loved the movie?
I loved the movie...
Taer: 11 months is a very long time!!
I believe that in the discussion last year, I promised to burn my DVD sets of FOTR and TTT if the scouring of the Shire wasn´t in the movie. I don´t think I´ll do that, though. I already knew they wouldn´t be in it and like slidedog said the end was long enough (I would really like it to be on the DVD though). Frodo leaving for the Havens and Sam saying ´well, I´m back.´was already more than I expected.
All in all I think this one had the least changes from the original, or maybe I just expected there to be more. Except from the ´Frodo sending Sam away´ scene the adaptations weren´t so bad.
Oh, did I mention I loved the movie?
I loved the movie...
Taer: 11 months is a very long time!!
darthfoley
Active member
Originally posted by mouse
Originally posted by darthfoley
Originally posted by mouse
PS: Why didn\'t PJ make a trilogy on Dragonlance....the waiting....will I get to view it in my lifetime....sigh...
I don\'t count on that ever happening. I wish it would, but don\'t hold your breath.
....holding....arghh...holding....blue in the face.....argghh.....Why? What\'s the wait?!?!?
I been waiting ten years for the animated version they announced in Dragon Magazine long, long ago.
I think it\'s a more complex thing to set up, and while it does have a huge pre-built-in fanbase, it doesn\'t have nearly the one that LOTR had. I think that it might be easier to get it done since the success the LOTR trilogy, but I still doubt it will ever see the light of day.
Flashman14
Member
... just got back from my first screening of ROTK ...Fan-damn-tastic!
Other than that I agree mostly with Chern\'s statements .. not a stray word there ...
Like Rachel I think the \"scouring\" was better left off. It would be entirely too anti-climactic given the destruction of the ring and the scattering of Sauron\'s forces ...
Other than that I agree mostly with Chern\'s statements .. not a stray word there ...
Like Rachel I think the \"scouring\" was better left off. It would be entirely too anti-climactic given the destruction of the ring and the scattering of Sauron\'s forces ...
yrret
Member
Totally awesome
I think the Return of the King was totally awesome. Above all else Tolkien was writing a good story in Epic style.
I hated the Faramir thing till I saw the extended DVD, and I now RotK. Now I can accept it. I think the paths of the dead and the Battle of Minas Tiirith are better even than the book.
I thought the ending was well done. By ending I mean all the way from Gollum\'s demise to the shire. I hope there is a mouth of Sauron scene in the extended version.
I wish I had gone to one of the marathons, as I would really have liked to see the extended Osgiliath scenes on the big screen.
I can\'t say enough how much I loved this movie.
I think the Return of the King was totally awesome. Above all else Tolkien was writing a good story in Epic style.
I hated the Faramir thing till I saw the extended DVD, and I now RotK. Now I can accept it. I think the paths of the dead and the Battle of Minas Tiirith are better even than the book.
I thought the ending was well done. By ending I mean all the way from Gollum\'s demise to the shire. I hope there is a mouth of Sauron scene in the extended version.
I wish I had gone to one of the marathons, as I would really have liked to see the extended Osgiliath scenes on the big screen.
I can\'t say enough how much I loved this movie.
tooshy
Active member
Gobsmacked.....
I\'d been building myself up for absolutely ages waiting for RoTK and after queuing at the cinema for almost 2 hours, I was in a frenzy lol
I was NOT disappointed. The film was awsome, amazing and so much more than I had imagined. Shelob had me crawling in my seat - I hate spiders at the best of times and she just freaked me out.
Having just climbed the 3Peaks this year, Sam and Frodo\'s trek up the mountain brought back some memories - but without the lava of course
Mr Jackson did a stunning job and considering what an immense task he had, I take my hat off to him for even trying in the first place. He would\'ve known that all of the Tolkien fans would never have forgiven him if he\'d cocked it up. I agree with some earlier comments - Peter Jackson put on screen his interpretation of the books, using well known images of artwork from calendars etc and we should all love him for it.
Considering the limitations the studio put on him - he had to make some tough decisions on what to cut and what to show and it can\'t have been easy for him. The extended versions are excellent and add so much more to each of the other two films and I am sure the extended version of RoTK will be no exception.
Three cheers for Mr Jackson and everyone who worked on the films.....
Hip, Hip, Hooray! :bouncy:
I\'d been building myself up for absolutely ages waiting for RoTK and after queuing at the cinema for almost 2 hours, I was in a frenzy lol
I was NOT disappointed. The film was awsome, amazing and so much more than I had imagined. Shelob had me crawling in my seat - I hate spiders at the best of times and she just freaked me out.
Having just climbed the 3Peaks this year, Sam and Frodo\'s trek up the mountain brought back some memories - but without the lava of course
Mr Jackson did a stunning job and considering what an immense task he had, I take my hat off to him for even trying in the first place. He would\'ve known that all of the Tolkien fans would never have forgiven him if he\'d cocked it up. I agree with some earlier comments - Peter Jackson put on screen his interpretation of the books, using well known images of artwork from calendars etc and we should all love him for it.
Considering the limitations the studio put on him - he had to make some tough decisions on what to cut and what to show and it can\'t have been easy for him. The extended versions are excellent and add so much more to each of the other two films and I am sure the extended version of RoTK will be no exception.
Three cheers for Mr Jackson and everyone who worked on the films.....
Hip, Hip, Hooray! :bouncy:
silverandblackattack
Member
I loved ROTK
I loved ROTK but hope that houses of healing and the death of Sauraman will be on the DVD. I had heard that Sauramans death was filmed and I swear I have still photos that were released before the movie came out that look like a house of healing scene.
I loved ROTK but hope that houses of healing and the death of Sauraman will be on the DVD. I had heard that Sauramans death was filmed and I swear I have still photos that were released before the movie came out that look like a house of healing scene.
kittykat23uk
New member
Well, I saw it last night and Peter Jackson has done a sterling job! I absolutely loved every minute of it. The whole trilogy is a great piece of cinematography. I really don\'t care that they left out a few bits and pieces from the book. In fact, (and don\'t flame me for this!!:innocent: ) I spent 2 or 3 years reading the books and found them to be the best way of getting me off to sleep! They are soo dull IMHO. The feeling I always got with reading the books was that there was the essence of a great story in there, but it was shrouded in bad poetry and too much history and language that it was very difficult to follow. The very fact that PJ has taken this epic and and distilled it into 3 amazing movies is testament to his skills as a director. Simply amazing!
Kat
Kat
War Griffon
New member
I watched it Friday evening and the only thing that spoilt it was the three girls sat behind us as every time that Olando Bloom came on screen they more or less wet themselves.
Yes there were bits from the book missing and other bits elaborated onbut so what after all it will probably be in the extended version of the DVD anyway as I have heard from various interviews that at least 30 minutes was cut from the final battle seen/end and that isn\'t including the rest of the movie.
The extended version of The Two Towers to me put it back in line with the book and I have no doubt the this will be so again.
Yes there were bits from the book missing and other bits elaborated onbut so what after all it will probably be in the extended version of the DVD anyway as I have heard from various interviews that at least 30 minutes was cut from the final battle seen/end and that isn\'t including the rest of the movie.
The extended version of The Two Towers to me put it back in line with the book and I have no doubt the this will be so again.
