There is some justice still...
- Thread starter Avelorn
- Start date
EEK!
I don\'t know all the facts, and this church is horrible, BUT BUT BUT if I were to play Devils Advocate a little...I have to side with them on the freedom of speech part.
If they were on public property while they did their terrible stuff, I think they are getting shafted here.
I don\'t know all the facts, and this church is horrible, BUT BUT BUT if I were to play Devils Advocate a little...I have to side with them on the freedom of speech part.
If they were on public property while they did their terrible stuff, I think they are getting shafted here.
Freedom of speech is an important freedom, without doubt. But, in this case this church has in fact harassed people by disturbing a funeral, that is a private affair.
For example, I have the right to insult you, but if I stand outside your house 24 hours per day and shout insults it would be harassment and freedom of speech would not be an issue.
For example, I have the right to insult you, but if I stand outside your house 24 hours per day and shout insults it would be harassment and freedom of speech would not be an issue.
No Such Agency
New member
Talk about a tough call. I am not a US civil rights lawyer so I can\'t even guess what the legal grounds for this judgment are. But it seems pretty clear he was harassing this family, wasn\'t their son named on his website as a \"dead soldier for f*gs\" or something?
The REAL objective of these protests is to make money. They keep pushing it farther and farther, in the hopes that someone will physically attack them or violate their civil rights. Then they sue everyone within a ten mile radius. Almost every adult family member is a lawyer, for just this reason. It was only a matter of time before they pushed it too far. I\'m certain they will try to appeal.
The REAL objective of these protests is to make money. They keep pushing it farther and farther, in the hopes that someone will physically attack them or violate their civil rights. Then they sue everyone within a ten mile radius. Almost every adult family member is a lawyer, for just this reason. It was only a matter of time before they pushed it too far. I\'m certain they will try to appeal.
Sand Rat
New member
They have been asked politely. They have been asked not so politely. They have been told to back down. They have had 22 states pass laws limiting their access to protest anywhere near a funeral. They have had members arrested for making a public disturbance, desecrating a flag, and child endangerment. So yeah, I think they have been warned and cautioned sufficiently.
And while I believe in the right of any group to express their views in public regaurdless of how distasteful I or others find those views, there is a difference between public and private, and a funeral is a private event. I\'m quite sure the WBC would sue my ass in a flat minute if I showed up around their events or property (even if I stayed on public right of way) with signs saying GOD HATES THE WESTBORO BAPTIST CHURCH CAUSE THEY HATE FAGS!! - because then I would be interfering somehow with their right to free expression of religion.
And while I believe in the right of any group to express their views in public regaurdless of how distasteful I or others find those views, there is a difference between public and private, and a funeral is a private event. I\'m quite sure the WBC would sue my ass in a flat minute if I showed up around their events or property (even if I stayed on public right of way) with signs saying GOD HATES THE WESTBORO BAPTIST CHURCH CAUSE THEY HATE FAGS!! - because then I would be interfering somehow with their right to free expression of religion.
Yes, score one for the good guys. 
Still got off too lightly in my opinion. Then again, my opinion is to place theatrical explosives along a road they frequent and set it off as they go past. They\'ll be waving their \"Thank God for IEDs\" placards with their trousers in the laundry.
Still got off too lightly in my opinion. Then again, my opinion is to place theatrical explosives along a road they frequent and set it off as they go past. They\'ll be waving their \"Thank God for IEDs\" placards with their trousers in the laundry.
Same boat as Lex here...
But I generalize it a little differently...
You are free to exercise your constitutional freedom/right, as long as it doesn\'t infringe on someone else\'s constitutional freedoms/rights....
Oversimplification, I know...but it usually stands true.
I certainly respect the church\'s right to criticize and voice their own beliefs.
However.....
They\'ve just learned a lesson in that ignorance and intolerance, sometimes, can cost money.....
But I generalize it a little differently...
You are free to exercise your constitutional freedom/right, as long as it doesn\'t infringe on someone else\'s constitutional freedoms/rights....
Oversimplification, I know...but it usually stands true.
I certainly respect the church\'s right to criticize and voice their own beliefs.
However.....
They\'ve just learned a lesson in that ignorance and intolerance, sometimes, can cost money.....
Let\'s be honest here, they are not a Church, but a bunch of loud mouthed blinkered bigots who\'s homophobia, they believe, gives them the right to cause distress to grieving families.
I may be a bit naive in this, but if I believed in a God I\'m sure I wouldn\'t want to believe in one that touted such hatred through its worshippers.
Ebonbuddha
Active member
I agree with Dragonreach on this. This is also the image people like to tag Christians with. They kind of ignore people like my mother and step father (both ministers) who help poorer neighborhoods.
Or the summer programs to help kids with their difficult classes. There are so many things that Christians do that are good. But idiots like these guys ruin it.
Or the summer programs to help kids with their difficult classes. There are so many things that Christians do that are good. But idiots like these guys ruin it.
Roger Bunting
New member
Well, all of us in the UK have been damned to Hell by the WBC, after Louis Theroux\'s program about them. And Sweden has too.
Yeah. A Swedish like-minded (to the WBC) minister referred to homosexuals as a \"cancer growth on our society\" during a public speech and also hinted at how cancer growths are treated and he was charged with persecution against minorities, which is a crime. When the court hearings took place that Phelps guy declared that god sent the tsunami in South East Asia to punish Sweden for this (because Thailand is a popular place for Swedish tourists).
I guess neither Phelps or the god he believes in care about the more than 100000 Asians that also were killed, besides the 2000 Swedes...
lizcam
New member
I\'m actually glad this has happened to this church. I think that the use of religion has covered way too much evil behavior in our country since the early \'80\'s when the \"moral majority\" gained power. It has ruined good religions and made at least 2 generations turn thier backs on joining churches at all. It has made it ok to say anything you want, no matter how rude or intollerant, as long as you follow it up with some kind of religios platitude like \"in god\'s name I\'ll pray for you\".
If the religious nut jobs had thier way no one would have freedom of thought let alone speach yet they are the first ones to use that law to cover thier asses.
Good on the courts for this! I\'m behind them all the way!
If the religious nut jobs had thier way no one would have freedom of thought let alone speach yet they are the first ones to use that law to cover thier asses.
Good on the courts for this! I\'m behind them all the way!
Infidel Castro
New member
You\'d like to think so wouldn\'t you, but I refer you to Theology Online to see just how strange the religious types can get. Try the Religion forums. Egad!
No Such Agency
New member
Anyway, I may go home and watch this to celebrate...
... as a reminder that feeling smug is a sin for us atheists too.
... as a reminder that feeling smug is a sin for us atheists too.
